RFDS pilots commence industrial action
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Olderairhaead
We are represented by the Health Services Union of Australia with assistance from the Ambulance Employees Association of South Australia.
We were initially represented by the Ambulance Employees Association however there was some issue with their ability to negotiate on a federal award so we joined the HSUA to officially represent us. So far the industrial officers of the HSUA and AEA have handled our issues very well and they are not intimidated by management and its band of legal eagles.
It would be great to have all RFDS pilots across the country represented by one union. That is something that we may work on after we get through with this. One hurdle we do have is the AFAP's LOL insurance to compete with to get members to transfer to another union. I think if the AFAP didn't have the LOL benefit getting members to transfer would be a cinch.
We are represented by the Health Services Union of Australia with assistance from the Ambulance Employees Association of South Australia.
We were initially represented by the Ambulance Employees Association however there was some issue with their ability to negotiate on a federal award so we joined the HSUA to officially represent us. So far the industrial officers of the HSUA and AEA have handled our issues very well and they are not intimidated by management and its band of legal eagles.
It would be great to have all RFDS pilots across the country represented by one union. That is something that we may work on after we get through with this. One hurdle we do have is the AFAP's LOL insurance to compete with to get members to transfer to another union. I think if the AFAP didn't have the LOL benefit getting members to transfer would be a cinch.
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reeheet
There is a ballot in progress that has come about after our last concilliatory hearing.
During the last hearing management implied that the union was not reflecting the views of the majority of pilots with the claim for penalty rates and overtime. Management then put forward the idea of a secret ballot to determine the pilots feelings on the issue. The union members agreed to allow ballot the process. The ballot is to decide whether the pilots want to pursue the penalty rates and overtime in the EBA or just seek a straight percentage increase on the current salary.
The last hearing was about four weeks ago and it was agreed by both parties that the process should be undertaken ASAP.... The union got our claims to the independent auditor within about five days, management however have not been quite as efficient having apparently just got their position to the auditor on Friday citing delays due to minor illnesses, problems with both parties agreeing to the content of the ballot (bulls*#t), and a few other feeble excuses. It is simply a stalling tactic possibly in the hope that we might get a bit frustrated with the negotiations and sign off on their terms. NOT.
Our aviation manager is still trying to cause division amongst the pilot group by singling out pilots in Alice and Port Augusta in an attempt to get them to break away from our EB claims. There has not been any approach to any Adelaide pilot in siding with managements' proposal.
It appears that the counting of the votes will be finalised close to Christmas so unfortunately things are going to be a bit quiet until into the new year. However; this does also give the pilots and union time to get the festive season out the way and return to the negotiating table in the new year with renewed vigour.
There is a ballot in progress that has come about after our last concilliatory hearing.
During the last hearing management implied that the union was not reflecting the views of the majority of pilots with the claim for penalty rates and overtime. Management then put forward the idea of a secret ballot to determine the pilots feelings on the issue. The union members agreed to allow ballot the process. The ballot is to decide whether the pilots want to pursue the penalty rates and overtime in the EBA or just seek a straight percentage increase on the current salary.
The last hearing was about four weeks ago and it was agreed by both parties that the process should be undertaken ASAP.... The union got our claims to the independent auditor within about five days, management however have not been quite as efficient having apparently just got their position to the auditor on Friday citing delays due to minor illnesses, problems with both parties agreeing to the content of the ballot (bulls*#t), and a few other feeble excuses. It is simply a stalling tactic possibly in the hope that we might get a bit frustrated with the negotiations and sign off on their terms. NOT.
Our aviation manager is still trying to cause division amongst the pilot group by singling out pilots in Alice and Port Augusta in an attempt to get them to break away from our EB claims. There has not been any approach to any Adelaide pilot in siding with managements' proposal.
It appears that the counting of the votes will be finalised close to Christmas so unfortunately things are going to be a bit quiet until into the new year. However; this does also give the pilots and union time to get the festive season out the way and return to the negotiating table in the new year with renewed vigour.
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Gee, they must count slow.
I don't know how many voted in the last federal election, must have been in the vicinity of 12 million or so, and the result was in with several hours of close of voting.
How many guys do you have voting..have to be less than 50 surely.
Best of luck with the process
I don't know how many voted in the last federal election, must have been in the vicinity of 12 million or so, and the result was in with several hours of close of voting.
How many guys do you have voting..have to be less than 50 surely.
Best of luck with the process
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Medwun
Why has it taken over a month for a simple ballot to be sent and returned?
Is it legit for the management to be talking to the staff whilst the ballot is pending?
With so many jobs advertised lately why is the managemnet giving you guys such a hard time - don't they know the state of the industry and how hard it is to get good crew any more in OZ?
Why has it taken over a month for a simple ballot to be sent and returned?
Is it legit for the management to be talking to the staff whilst the ballot is pending?
With so many jobs advertised lately why is the managemnet giving you guys such a hard time - don't they know the state of the industry and how hard it is to get good crew any more in OZ?
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reeheet
Could be that a new Aviation Manager is trying to put his mark all over his new patch.
He is not winning many points in Central Section and lots of outsiders are very curious as to what he is up to.
Could be that a new Aviation Manager is trying to put his mark all over his new patch.
He is not winning many points in Central Section and lots of outsiders are very curious as to what he is up to.
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Medwun,
You say that management have not approached any of the Adelaide-based Pilots, and I was wondering what you were inferring by this.
Are you saying the Pilots in Adelaide are less likely to be intimidated or be browbeaten by management as they are likely to be made up of the more senior pilots of the Section?
Hans
You say that management have not approached any of the Adelaide-based Pilots, and I was wondering what you were inferring by this.
Are you saying the Pilots in Adelaide are less likely to be intimidated or be browbeaten by management as they are likely to be made up of the more senior pilots of the Section?
Hans
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Hans
That's exactly what I'm referring to.
There are 8 pilots on the line in Adelaide. Three of them have over 20 years with the company, one has 18 years, one 15, one 10 and one about 5. The senior base pilot has about 12 years. There is one position presently vacant.
Five of the seven pilots in Port Augusta have less than 12 months with the company.
And no, the Adelaide pilots will not stand for any intimidating tactics. Reports from the other base reps have indicated that most of the pilots that went in for a chat with the Aviation Manager weren't really interested in his drivel.
That's exactly what I'm referring to.
There are 8 pilots on the line in Adelaide. Three of them have over 20 years with the company, one has 18 years, one 15, one 10 and one about 5. The senior base pilot has about 12 years. There is one position presently vacant.
Five of the seven pilots in Port Augusta have less than 12 months with the company.
And no, the Adelaide pilots will not stand for any intimidating tactics. Reports from the other base reps have indicated that most of the pilots that went in for a chat with the Aviation Manager weren't really interested in his drivel.
Last edited by medwun; 12th Dec 2005 at 08:37.
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Medwun it seems that it has gone all quiet for a couple of weeks does that mean that the ballot still has not been finallized and results returned yet?
How long does it take to get a simple yes/no to a proposed pay structure?
Or is the delay mnagement related once more.
I would be starting to run out of patience after 18 months of this sort of sh(*)&^!
How long does it take to get a simple yes/no to a proposed pay structure?
Or is the delay mnagement related once more.
I would be starting to run out of patience after 18 months of this sort of sh(*)&^!
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Thanks to all ppruners for your continued interest with our issues.
The votes for the pay structure ballot have been counted and while it was certainly not a unanimous result the outcome is that the majority of pilots who voted want to pursue the penalty rates and overtime as recommended by the union.
The next commission hearing is set down for January 18th.
As I advised previously a certain manager was canvassing less experienced pilots to sell managements position and it seems from the result of the vote that he has convinced them that management are nice and that they will be looked after!
It was clearly stated in managements spiel within the ballot material that pilots do not have rostered hours, ordinary hours, penalty shifts or overtime and are only restricted by flight and duty restrictions as per CAO 48 or exemption. That sent alarm bells ringing for me and a few others but obviously those who voted for managements position do not see the ramifications of this. Our colleagues over in the West can be called in the last few hours of their shift and then continue duty for another 12 hours. It has been mentioned on numerous occasions from our management that this is the way they would prefer to operate and "we need flexibility" has also been a common phrase used by our managers.
We wait now until the 18th for further developments
The votes for the pay structure ballot have been counted and while it was certainly not a unanimous result the outcome is that the majority of pilots who voted want to pursue the penalty rates and overtime as recommended by the union.
The next commission hearing is set down for January 18th.
As I advised previously a certain manager was canvassing less experienced pilots to sell managements position and it seems from the result of the vote that he has convinced them that management are nice and that they will be looked after!
It was clearly stated in managements spiel within the ballot material that pilots do not have rostered hours, ordinary hours, penalty shifts or overtime and are only restricted by flight and duty restrictions as per CAO 48 or exemption. That sent alarm bells ringing for me and a few others but obviously those who voted for managements position do not see the ramifications of this. Our colleagues over in the West can be called in the last few hours of their shift and then continue duty for another 12 hours. It has been mentioned on numerous occasions from our management that this is the way they would prefer to operate and "we need flexibility" has also been a common phrase used by our managers.
We wait now until the 18th for further developments
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Medwun,
What's the situation with you guys in regard to getting called in the last few hours (or last 15 min for that matter), when RFDS want you to do a flight?
What happens if you are away from home base with another 2 or 3 hours flight time to get home and you reach the end of your standby shift.
Over in the West we constantly work hours into the next shift, quite often finishing after midnight, when our standby shift finished at 1800 hours.
A call-out to do a 10-12 hour duty period 6 or 7 hours into our standby shift is commonplace.
Its *%#@ed, but thats the norm over here.
Hans.
What's the situation with you guys in regard to getting called in the last few hours (or last 15 min for that matter), when RFDS want you to do a flight?
What happens if you are away from home base with another 2 or 3 hours flight time to get home and you reach the end of your standby shift.
Over in the West we constantly work hours into the next shift, quite often finishing after midnight, when our standby shift finished at 1800 hours.
A call-out to do a 10-12 hour duty period 6 or 7 hours into our standby shift is commonplace.
Its *%#@ed, but thats the norm over here.
Hans.
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Shift work is one thing, but being rostered beyond limits, and having constantly changing rosters is another.
These pilots cannot complain, as the outfit they complain to does their next renewal test.
I know of one outfit that rostered 12 hour shifts,(often back to back), and relied on instant roster changes to keep things a little bit sensible when it got busy. Rosters were rubbery, and pilots were often in difficult situations, re duty times etc.
Social and home life was non existent.
Another outfit, operating the same equipment, doing similar work rostered three eight hour shifts per day (instead of two 12 hoiur ones) That system works much better, and rosters are much more stable. Duty time problems are far less.
This is a commercial problem which should be fixed. Penalty rates for overtime works better than regulations, as you cannot get a dispensation and have to comply.
Another factor is, I believe that there are some pilots who came from another "not for profit" organisation and were expected to have "missionary zael" to keep them going instead of money.
There are undesireable distortions of the commercial process which should be removed.
Our RFDS pilots should get a much better deal than they have in the past.
These pilots cannot complain, as the outfit they complain to does their next renewal test.
I know of one outfit that rostered 12 hour shifts,(often back to back), and relied on instant roster changes to keep things a little bit sensible when it got busy. Rosters were rubbery, and pilots were often in difficult situations, re duty times etc.
Social and home life was non existent.
Another outfit, operating the same equipment, doing similar work rostered three eight hour shifts per day (instead of two 12 hoiur ones) That system works much better, and rosters are much more stable. Duty time problems are far less.
This is a commercial problem which should be fixed. Penalty rates for overtime works better than regulations, as you cannot get a dispensation and have to comply.
Another factor is, I believe that there are some pilots who came from another "not for profit" organisation and were expected to have "missionary zael" to keep them going instead of money.
There are undesireable distortions of the commercial process which should be removed.
Our RFDS pilots should get a much better deal than they have in the past.
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Bushy,
If you have the opportunity to stop this happening in Central Section, then my advice is to DO IT.
The West Australian model might be good for Management, but it unfortunately has a very detrimental effect on family life.
Well done kym,
Another professional, well thought out post!
Hans
If you have the opportunity to stop this happening in Central Section, then my advice is to DO IT.
The West Australian model might be good for Management, but it unfortunately has a very detrimental effect on family life.
Well done kym,
Another professional, well thought out post!
Hans
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Hans
We have an arrangement here in central ops whereby most pilots and nurses will not accept a flight which is not life or limb threatening that takes us past our standby shift time. We still accept med 1 flights which take us past the shift end time and quite often they can be quite excessive as with your situation in the West. If a flight looks like it will take me to a point whereby I have or will be awake for 18 hours continuous I will call it a day at that port no matter how urgent the case. Being awake for 18 hours without sleep is the magic figure whereby if you continue much longer your fatigue increases at a very rapid rate. Ref. Flinders Uni Sleep Research Unit
As Bushy pointed out if there was some sort of fiscal penalty for this 'crew bashing' by management we believe there would be a sudden interest from them to control the overtime.
Hans, I will be sending you a PM, possibly not straight away but in the next day or two, keep an eye out for it.
We have an arrangement here in central ops whereby most pilots and nurses will not accept a flight which is not life or limb threatening that takes us past our standby shift time. We still accept med 1 flights which take us past the shift end time and quite often they can be quite excessive as with your situation in the West. If a flight looks like it will take me to a point whereby I have or will be awake for 18 hours continuous I will call it a day at that port no matter how urgent the case. Being awake for 18 hours without sleep is the magic figure whereby if you continue much longer your fatigue increases at a very rapid rate. Ref. Flinders Uni Sleep Research Unit
As Bushy pointed out if there was some sort of fiscal penalty for this 'crew bashing' by management we believe there would be a sudden interest from them to control the overtime.
Hans, I will be sending you a PM, possibly not straight away but in the next day or two, keep an eye out for it.
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Hans Solo
You have nailed it again.
Westops ops are losing pilots faster than they can train them and this is directly related to the issues you describe.
Management believe it is easier to train pilots rather than change the system. For me it does not make economical sense but then again I'm not a manager.
So Central section my advice is stick with your fight .
OOFY
You have nailed it again.
Westops ops are losing pilots faster than they can train them and this is directly related to the issues you describe.
Management believe it is easier to train pilots rather than change the system. For me it does not make economical sense but then again I'm not a manager.
So Central section my advice is stick with your fight .
OOFY
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Westops ops are losing pilots faster than they can train them and this is directly related to the issues you describe.
