The old birds get the Virgins worm!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Qld Aust
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Well mr BZZZZZZ or however you spell your name. When the management of VB changes and someone in the new system does not like how you spell your name and fires you without any reference as to how good or bad you do your job let me see just how righteous you are about the employers rights. All this crap is about people with the necessary skills being rejected because of their age. Many have got carried away from the original subject but if you wish to advertise a position in this country you CAN NOT by law refuse someone because of age. So if this rule does not apply in the UAE so be it we live in Australia and that is the law. Then again I guess you at VD or should I say VB I guess think they are above the law of the land. Just wait and see if they come to the pilots now and ask you to take a pay cut to pay out these ladies and see how happy you will be then BZZZZZZZ
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australia
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I agree SkySista companies should be able to hire who they want up to a limit. You can discriminate on lots of things, just not age sex religion or race. Do you even remember all the ridiculous arguments given why women should not fly. That time of the month, what if they got pregnant, not strong enough the list goes on.
Oh yes and we all hate those lefty feminists socialists who whinge about how life aint fair. That is of course unless we miss out on an airline job because of a psych or skills test, or if just one cadetship is offered to an aboriginal candidate based on race(thread on these forums case in point), or when we are told to retire at 60 becuase we are told we are too old.
Yes if you dont fit the mould of the right stuff, wear glasses, are overweight, arent attractive and dont inspire as much confidence in the public as a fit, attractive 40ish year old white male preferrably ex armed services who is 6 feet tall then you dont get a job. No matter how good you are.
Sorry son you dont get a command for another 5 years cause people just get nervous when their captain doesnt look old enough to vote.
It is not unreasonable to expect that even with VB seeking energetic fun people (yeah right) that at least some would be unattractive, at least slightly overweight, older than 25, not blonde or all of these. How many males are employed as FA's by VB? Having a few token oldies isnt good enough. Especially when there is no real reason why there shouldnt be a cross section of age and looks employed. Im sure not all of the over 30's were ex ANS.
As far as modelling etc goes.. from what i understand the law does have exceptions for roles where you can discriminate if it is a requirement for that job. Eg an 80 yo playing a 12 yo in a movie. Or a male applying for a female role... Having said that anyone remember Miss Australia a few years back. The world didn't end.
Oh yes and as for employment in the youth orientated market. There is no double standard. If a 45 yo wanted to work at a jeans shop and they discriminated based on age the person would be quite able to sue on the grounds of discrimination. But I suspect the reason it may not happen has more to do with older workers not being attracted to those jobs and it is far easier to get a job elsewhere in retail than make an issue of it.
Good eye candy though... but for $5000 you can get a lot better
Tea coffee me anyone?
Oh yes and we all hate those lefty feminists socialists who whinge about how life aint fair. That is of course unless we miss out on an airline job because of a psych or skills test, or if just one cadetship is offered to an aboriginal candidate based on race(thread on these forums case in point), or when we are told to retire at 60 becuase we are told we are too old.
Yes if you dont fit the mould of the right stuff, wear glasses, are overweight, arent attractive and dont inspire as much confidence in the public as a fit, attractive 40ish year old white male preferrably ex armed services who is 6 feet tall then you dont get a job. No matter how good you are.
Sorry son you dont get a command for another 5 years cause people just get nervous when their captain doesnt look old enough to vote.
It is not unreasonable to expect that even with VB seeking energetic fun people (yeah right) that at least some would be unattractive, at least slightly overweight, older than 25, not blonde or all of these. How many males are employed as FA's by VB? Having a few token oldies isnt good enough. Especially when there is no real reason why there shouldnt be a cross section of age and looks employed. Im sure not all of the over 30's were ex ANS.
As far as modelling etc goes.. from what i understand the law does have exceptions for roles where you can discriminate if it is a requirement for that job. Eg an 80 yo playing a 12 yo in a movie. Or a male applying for a female role... Having said that anyone remember Miss Australia a few years back. The world didn't end.
Oh yes and as for employment in the youth orientated market. There is no double standard. If a 45 yo wanted to work at a jeans shop and they discriminated based on age the person would be quite able to sue on the grounds of discrimination. But I suspect the reason it may not happen has more to do with older workers not being attracted to those jobs and it is far easier to get a job elsewhere in retail than make an issue of it.
Good eye candy though... but for $5000 you can get a lot better
Tea coffee me anyone?
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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finding the Virgin Blue assessors were "unconsciously discriminating on the basis of age" against the applicants.
I think Mr Savage means "SUBconciously" - as in not conciously...knowingly....discriminating.
Or are these old boilers of Sir Reggie's really nightmares? lol.
About 18 months to 2 years ago, VB was seeking out young, ex-AN F/A's as Direct Entry cabin managers. The strange thing was, these ladies had never flown as Cabin Managers, nor had they flown since the collapse of Ansett.
Evidently, there were big problems in their training department that never caught up with the rapid expansion.
It was fairly obvious discrimination or lack of Virgin Flair shall we say, that already experienced older Cabin Managers weren't sort and a definite VB preference for the younger & untrained expressions.
Evidently, there were big problems in their training department that never caught up with the rapid expansion.
It was fairly obvious discrimination or lack of Virgin Flair shall we say, that already experienced older Cabin Managers weren't sort and a definite VB preference for the younger & untrained expressions.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne Aus
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Perhaps Godfrey is feeling violated and threatened judging by this notice to staff:
10th October 05
Queensland Discrimination Tribunal Finding
Dear Team,
Virgin Blue today was found to have discriminated against several former unemployed Ansett cabin attendants who were seeking employment with us back in 2001.
The tribunal interrogated but found no fault regarding the company’s recruitment processes and selection criteria. Surprisingly, the judgement said that certain of our staff had “unconsciously” discriminated against the former Ansett personnel and as a result it found against us.
This has been an arduous 3 year process and the 4th time we’ve defended this same issue in various forums and it is the 1st time the decision has gone against Virgin Blue. And it does not mean that this is the final result regarding this issue.
As I write this, our legal team continue to analyse the judgement, but at this early stage we are inclined to appeal this decision as we do not accept this finding. We will however shortly state our public intent. I will also keep you informed of the progress and our thinking on this matter.
Please let me be very clear … We do not believe that those of our team members who were cross examined during this process discriminated against anyone, the Ansett cabin attendants included. We stand by these people, our team members, 100%. Please can I ask that you do the same, especially as this process has not yet run its full course.
Kind regards,
Brett
Now I wonder if the VB shareholders that havent ditched their shares and lost their shirts would want even more money wasted in this fruitless attempt.
10th October 05
Queensland Discrimination Tribunal Finding
Dear Team,
Virgin Blue today was found to have discriminated against several former unemployed Ansett cabin attendants who were seeking employment with us back in 2001.
The tribunal interrogated but found no fault regarding the company’s recruitment processes and selection criteria. Surprisingly, the judgement said that certain of our staff had “unconsciously” discriminated against the former Ansett personnel and as a result it found against us.
This has been an arduous 3 year process and the 4th time we’ve defended this same issue in various forums and it is the 1st time the decision has gone against Virgin Blue. And it does not mean that this is the final result regarding this issue.
As I write this, our legal team continue to analyse the judgement, but at this early stage we are inclined to appeal this decision as we do not accept this finding. We will however shortly state our public intent. I will also keep you informed of the progress and our thinking on this matter.
Please let me be very clear … We do not believe that those of our team members who were cross examined during this process discriminated against anyone, the Ansett cabin attendants included. We stand by these people, our team members, 100%. Please can I ask that you do the same, especially as this process has not yet run its full course.
Kind regards,
Brett
Now I wonder if the VB shareholders that havent ditched their shares and lost their shirts would want even more money wasted in this fruitless attempt.
Evertonian
Thread Starter
Of course they should fight it! They have a reputation to maintain. (I wonder if their lawyers do face painting in court?)
Join Date: May 2004
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I happened to be on duty one Sat morning here in BNE when B727 ANA blew an engine just after rotation and was still on fire when it landed
Agreed 100% with SkySis - I too went for EK but was knocked back (more than once too I hasten to point out). I can conjure up any number of discrimination theories (age, height, weight, sexuality, teeth not being 100% perfect etc) but I did not turn around and sue them - I simply accepted the fact that I was not right on the day(s).
At the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion on this matter - I am not here to belittle anyone elses nor have mine belittled - but my opinion is not only that justice has been denied to VB; but also the precedence this sets implies that the process of recruiting the people you feel are most appropriate for your company is no longer an option for any company that does not wish to be sued on entirely unfounded grounds. There is no proof that these ladies were denied employment on the basis of their age and just because they were experienced crew from another airline does not mean that they are automatically entitled to any CC job they apply to!
I am not in any way at all condoning any form of discrimiation against any person or group of people, however I do believe that in this case justice has not been served.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Anflygirl
Thank christ at least one of the many airlines in Australia has standards. 
Oh and for your information I have been accepted by every airline in this country except VB
I used to have a pair of those in the 70's, 
must dig em out.
