Flying in the face of the law - pilot bikers land fines
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
clearly alot of you here who posted have fallen into the trap. Read the last few lines of the article, the FACTS are that they were found GUILTY of SPEEDING being 25-30 km/h
Best you catch up with proceedings...
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zer Gut Ya?
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The guys admitted to doing a lower speed. Doesn't mean that they weren't doing a higher speed but DIDNT admit to it. Why would you? I wouldn't if I were in their shoes. It's is human nature.
Foolish and immature behaviour that is not appropriate for a pilot. And why should a pilot be any different to that of a politician, or judge, or media personality. These people are crucified when this sort of thing happens. The pilot has FAR more responsibility than any of these people. Arguably then, it is MORE important for the pilot to abide by the rules.
And behaviour that I believe will be taken into the air. Rules and laws are just that. A propensity to break them won't just be an isolated behaviour. Once again, it is human nature. The thought process is that "I got away with it then, so I won't get caught here..." Simplified, yes. But still relevant.
Quite frankly Claret, your words scare the hell out of me, as do many of the others on this thread, especially so for pilots. You have missed the point that others were trying to make so obviously, that it is downright frightening.
It is not about the implications of a fine. It is about the implications of taking a life. Like balance, I too have known several people whose lives have been taken by stupidity on the road. Claret, you CANNOT put a monetary value of a fine on their lives. For you to do so in such a dismissive manner speaks volumes about your character, or lack therof.
Foolish and immature behaviour that is not appropriate for a pilot. And why should a pilot be any different to that of a politician, or judge, or media personality. These people are crucified when this sort of thing happens. The pilot has FAR more responsibility than any of these people. Arguably then, it is MORE important for the pilot to abide by the rules.
And behaviour that I believe will be taken into the air. Rules and laws are just that. A propensity to break them won't just be an isolated behaviour. Once again, it is human nature. The thought process is that "I got away with it then, so I won't get caught here..." Simplified, yes. But still relevant.
I know because I've only become an adherer of speed limits as I've gotten older and realised that the fines aren't worth it.
It is not about the implications of a fine. It is about the implications of taking a life. Like balance, I too have known several people whose lives have been taken by stupidity on the road. Claret, you CANNOT put a monetary value of a fine on their lives. For you to do so in such a dismissive manner speaks volumes about your character, or lack therof.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mydadsbag
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ya just gotta love how some blokes think they are on the same par as media personalities or judges or politicians!
Talk about ego!
Order... order.... I said order on the flightdeck!!!!!
bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbzzzzzzzzzzz
Talk about ego!
Order... order.... I said order on the flightdeck!!!!!
bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbzzzzzzzzzzz
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zer Gut Ya?
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nothing was stated to suggest that they were on a "par" with those people, Buzzy. Just that they would be hauled over the coals in the media spotlight for their transgression. Yet, their position carries far less responsibility than that of a pilot, wouldn't you say?
Interesting contrast, IMHO.
And Buzzy? Please don't twist words you annoying ignorant twit.
Ban him again, Woomera. He contributes ZERO to any of these threads other than to annoy and abuse.
Interesting contrast, IMHO.
And Buzzy? Please don't twist words you annoying ignorant twit.
Ban him again, Woomera. He contributes ZERO to any of these threads other than to annoy and abuse.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Migratory bird
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
should a pilot be any different to that of a politician, or judge
These pilots are not at fault, society is. It is our society who embraced "Top Gun" and made it the cult attraction that it is. These pilots were obviously subconsciously living out their own fantasies about the motorcycle scenes. Okay that was a joke.
But really, who cares?
If these pilots were bank workers, would you withdraw your cash from these reckless cash managers?
If they were firemen, would you move to someplace where you would not risk being "rescued" by them?
Pilots are machine-managers. I'd say the pathetic whinings here would be justified if these guys had ridden into a shop-front while attempting high-speeds.
The fact they were able to safely attain the speeds they did, with or without hands on the grips, says they are capable of dealing with an "extreme machine". Just what I would expect from an airline pilot I trust my life to.
Pilots should be exempt from speed limits. At the very least, people should be rated for their capabilities individually. Fighter pilots should be allowed to go the fastest and private pilots who are doctors should be required to always have an instructor with them.
In a perfect world this would happen and no one would get in anyone else's way and my old grand-dad would not be terrorising the driving world just because he has the same car-licence these pilots do.
Disclaimer: The use of the term "extreme machine" is is not in any way meant to detract from the knuckleheads in the RAAF who as we all know fly the real "extreme machines."
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i think someone has missed the point of my post, unusually high speeds on powerul bikes is an easy thing to do, even for brief periods of time... and be honest, we have all done it... thats why you ride a sports bike isnt it?
second, i am(was) a prefessional driver, and almost 1,000,000 km later with not 1 driving offence or accident is testimate to my driving ability... and as for never been on a bike, i have a 650GS and a CBR250RR.
I dont believe the said riders actually rode hands in tha air! but legally EVERY person who drives a car, and rides a bike loses control, as they change gears, open a vent on their jacket, change to reserve tanks, turn on air conditioning....... all involves removing a hand from the wheel or handlebars.. riding down a road, reaching down to change to reserve tank or adjust a jacket, does not constitute loseing control.. booking somone for loseing control is just nitpicking.. how many times driving to work, or more likely driving home after a long shift have you accidentally crossed a lane marker? opps, 3 points! thats neg driving and changing lanes without an indicator!!
i also do not condone speeding, especially in built up areas, but there are some areas that are marked way below a safe limit, eg in south sydney, a newly opened section of freeway conditioned, posted at 60 Kph... nothing either side for 4 km but sound barriers and rock walls. not a side street or footpath to be seen. in this area alone, i will bet my house that 90% of the traffic on that bit of road exceed the limit by at LEAST 20Kph.
all my excessive speeding is commited at eastern creek, Oran Park, wakefield, or west of the black stump in a place called NT! or the occasional overtaking manouver...
but making judments on somones flying ability based on their riding or driving is obsurd..
second, i am(was) a prefessional driver, and almost 1,000,000 km later with not 1 driving offence or accident is testimate to my driving ability... and as for never been on a bike, i have a 650GS and a CBR250RR.
I dont believe the said riders actually rode hands in tha air! but legally EVERY person who drives a car, and rides a bike loses control, as they change gears, open a vent on their jacket, change to reserve tanks, turn on air conditioning....... all involves removing a hand from the wheel or handlebars.. riding down a road, reaching down to change to reserve tank or adjust a jacket, does not constitute loseing control.. booking somone for loseing control is just nitpicking.. how many times driving to work, or more likely driving home after a long shift have you accidentally crossed a lane marker? opps, 3 points! thats neg driving and changing lanes without an indicator!!
i also do not condone speeding, especially in built up areas, but there are some areas that are marked way below a safe limit, eg in south sydney, a newly opened section of freeway conditioned, posted at 60 Kph... nothing either side for 4 km but sound barriers and rock walls. not a side street or footpath to be seen. in this area alone, i will bet my house that 90% of the traffic on that bit of road exceed the limit by at LEAST 20Kph.
all my excessive speeding is commited at eastern creek, Oran Park, wakefield, or west of the black stump in a place called NT! or the occasional overtaking manouver...
but making judments on somones flying ability based on their riding or driving is obsurd..
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mydadsbag
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ban him again, Woomera. He contributes ZERO to any of these threads other than to annoy and abuse.
bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzGIRLzzzzzzbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Migratory bird
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By the way, the truly disgraceful aspect to all of this is not that someone went fast on a bike but that someone, a pilot no less, posted the news all over the internet.
This is not news, people, this is the garbage you are fed to make you feel well-informed whilst the gov't and big business do what they want with the country. Focus your outrage elsewhere.
TL, when you, in a moment of poor-judgement as we all have from time to time, allow a skeleton out of your closet, do you want it splashed all over the media so we can all discuss you and your suitability as a pilot/citizen/human being/whatever?
And is being "first in with the news" here on pprune worth the knowledge that you helped name a pair of your fellow professional pilots who probably already feel suitably remorseful?
This is not news, people, this is the garbage you are fed to make you feel well-informed whilst the gov't and big business do what they want with the country. Focus your outrage elsewhere.
TL, when you, in a moment of poor-judgement as we all have from time to time, allow a skeleton out of your closet, do you want it splashed all over the media so we can all discuss you and your suitability as a pilot/citizen/human being/whatever?
And is being "first in with the news" here on pprune worth the knowledge that you helped name a pair of your fellow professional pilots who probably already feel suitably remorseful?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zer Gut Ya?
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DeBurcs, you too have missed the point. This is not just about a momentary error in judgement. 140km/hr in a 70 km/hr zone on Queens Road St Kilda is NOT a momentary lapse. It is serious sh1t.
How many kids walk along that road and cross over unexpectedly? My guess - plenty. At 70 you might have an option of stopping. Or not. But at 140 your chances are SUBSTANTIALLY reduced, and I don't care if you are Valentino himself.
The arguments presented by you and your mates to somehow suggest that this was only minor, it wasn't actually their fault, or some other ludicrous twist is seriously disturbing, because it indicates a propensity for pilots to break laws that are designed to protect our safety - something which should be sacred - especially to a pilot.
How many kids walk along that road and cross over unexpectedly? My guess - plenty. At 70 you might have an option of stopping. Or not. But at 140 your chances are SUBSTANTIALLY reduced, and I don't care if you are Valentino himself.
The arguments presented by you and your mates to somehow suggest that this was only minor, it wasn't actually their fault, or some other ludicrous twist is seriously disturbing, because it indicates a propensity for pilots to break laws that are designed to protect our safety - something which should be sacred - especially to a pilot.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mydadsbag
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it were a QANTAS pilot though?..... Different story I suppose.
It's just fine for a couple of "balanced" crusty old QF captains to belt one another in view of the public? Nothing illegal there? Nothing deliberate?
Leave work time to work time and home time to home time!
bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzz
It's just fine for a couple of "balanced" crusty old QF captains to belt one another in view of the public? Nothing illegal there? Nothing deliberate?
Leave work time to work time and home time to home time!
bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzz
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zer Gut Ya?
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As is usually the case Buzzy, YOU ARE WRONG. It doesn't matter which company you work for, Virgin, Qantas or Airlines of Dubbo. Ultimately the responsibility is the same.
Your attempt at a diversion is nothing short of pathetic.
Your attempt at a diversion is nothing short of pathetic.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Migratory bird
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
140km/hr ... is NOT a momentary lapse
Are you saying these two guys set out that day with pre-meditated behaviour on that stretch of St. Kilda Rd. on their minds?
Were you there? Did you see them planning it?
While we're at it, did you see the children and the other hazards?
It's not minor, I never said that. You did. But it has nothing to do with them being airline pilots so why are you so hung up on this?
These guys decided, apparently on a whim, to speed. Why don't you assume they did so after weighing the risk to others and deciding there were none. Just as they do everytime they take off in a jet, not that their occupations have anything to do with the infraction they committed, despite what you say.
No, for some reason, you'd rather assume they risked all and sundry in a pre-meditated thrill-ride through a toy-strewn lane narrowly dodging children and grannies and putting the fear of God into virgins everywhere.
Seriously, what is wrong with you? Let these guys pay their fines and get on with it. I'm sure they are ashamed, thanks in part to the armchair moralists here on the net who have helped ensure that everyone they work with will be aware of how they spent their spare time.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mydadsbag
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, for some reason, you'd rather assume they risked all and sundry in a pre-meditated thrill-ride through a toy-strewn lane narrowly dodging children and grannies and putting the fear of God into virgins everywhere.
nice work
bbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fountain Gate...
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread is truly a worry. Unbelievable. People are stating openly that they will speed and break the law. Saying that is is right to do so. Pilots, no less. Seriously disturbing.
Deburcs, are you for real? You must be drunk, mate.
Uh-huh. And what happens when something unexpected comes along? Hmmmm? Yesss?
Listen sweetheart, you are out of your depth. You are an immature fool, just like the two pilots involved. Has it occurred to you that an airline pilot will go to great lengths to eliminate risks, because that is our job. Not to take unnecessary risks and show off.
Further, I would suggest that Mr Buzzy was on the right track. This tends towards and organisation like VB. Showy, glamarous and an accident waiting to happen. A systemic culture which takes risks. That wasn't his point directly, but he was on the right track....
Deburcs, are you for real? You must be drunk, mate.
The fact they were able to safely attain the speeds they did, with or without hands on the grips, says they are capable of dealing with an "extreme machine". Just what I would expect from an airline pilot I trust my life to.
Listen sweetheart, you are out of your depth. You are an immature fool, just like the two pilots involved. Has it occurred to you that an airline pilot will go to great lengths to eliminate risks, because that is our job. Not to take unnecessary risks and show off.
Further, I would suggest that Mr Buzzy was on the right track. This tends towards and organisation like VB. Showy, glamarous and an accident waiting to happen. A systemic culture which takes risks. That wasn't his point directly, but he was on the right track....
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zer Gut Ya?
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Deburcs, you are an ignorant fool and I seriously hope that I never come across you on the road. Because you will no doubt be following your "whims" and doing whatever pleases you.
No mate, I never said or even assumed that. That is your clearly flawed thoughts.
When you lose someone close to you, that is when you may understand. Until that time, you are the one likely to be on the end of the machine which does the killing.
My final word. Grow up.
No, for some reason, you'd rather assume they risked all and sundry in a pre-meditated thrill-ride through a toy-strewn lane narrowly dodging children and grannies and putting the fear of God into virgins everywhere.
When you lose someone close to you, that is when you may understand. Until that time, you are the one likely to be on the end of the machine which does the killing.
My final word. Grow up.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mydadsbag
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sandy,
interpret things how you like.
I would be far more concerned about a crew (At work and in uniform) That decided taking off without runway lights was a good idea!
Like I said.... Home time is home time...... Work time is work time!
Everyone has mud to sling from every fence so perhaps some solidarity in terms of reporting any such events would be a far more productive truce!
bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
interpret things how you like.
I would be far more concerned about a crew (At work and in uniform) That decided taking off without runway lights was a good idea!
Like I said.... Home time is home time...... Work time is work time!
Everyone has mud to sling from every fence so perhaps some solidarity in terms of reporting any such events would be a far more productive truce!
bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Migratory bird
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
an airline pilot will go to great lengths to eliminate risks
-continued despite discontent over an "un-resolved discrepancy" and flown into a hill-side
-taken off in icy conditions and crashed
-continued toward an area where windshear would almost certainly exist and paid for it
Or, a little closer to home:
-punched another member of the crew on a layover because that raving mincing fag deserved it
-landed knowingly halfway down the runway and rolled off the end
-attempted to over-ride a go-around initiated by another pilot and "re-land" on a short, wet runway with idle reverse
-or even gone to work when he knows he is tired and improperly rested...
-etc etc etc......
You live in a fantasyland, Mr. Freckle. Where can I get some of whatever you're popping...
As for their skills, yes, Mr. Freckle, I would rather have these guys flying the airliner than some Volvo-driving academic tw@t who sits in the over-taking lane doing 10 under the limit stroking his Quaker beard and going "hmmmm" to himself in a dreamland and smoking his pipe.
You are an immature fool
Please refrain from calling me "sweetheart" unless you change handles to something a little less anal-oriented!
By the way, have you done time???
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Australia
Age: 51
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Loving the read...
But... I haven't been to Melbourne for a couple of years, but, I thought that Queens rd was a 60 zone, until you get past Albert park. Then it changes to 70. When the road goes under St Kilda rd, then the dual carriageway is joined with a tram-line in the centre, leaving penty of room.
My point is, on a bike, (people who always follow the speed limit, taking fifty years to realise that a red light has changed green and wonder why there is constantly traffic around them don't realise is) you can get away from traffic, and NOTHING is going to SUDDENLY jump out in front of you, that you would be inept to not see.
This is probebly why they were let off with 1 month suspension.
Woomera? Why were these two guys names made public on the forum, in a non aviation related offence?
Buzzy Rocks!!!
My point is, on a bike, (people who always follow the speed limit, taking fifty years to realise that a red light has changed green and wonder why there is constantly traffic around them don't realise is) you can get away from traffic, and NOTHING is going to SUDDENLY jump out in front of you, that you would be inept to not see.
This is probebly why they were let off with 1 month suspension.
Woomera? Why were these two guys names made public on the forum, in a non aviation related offence?
Buzzy Rocks!!!