Flying in the face of the law - pilot bikers land fines
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Ultralights - have you ever ridden a large bike at speed?
"funny thing with bikes, at higher speeds, no hands riding is quite easy, and safe, higher speed = more stability, and at speed you turn with your body weight, not the handlebars. or even turn the Other way, to go left, you turn the front wheel a tad to the right and lean into the left.... and vice versa.."
Now the funny thing with bikes is that the front brakes are on the handlebars. In an emergency, if something runs out in the road, all a rider can do is stamp on the rear brake. This equals rear wheel lock up lock = slide into back of parked car.
Higher speed = more stability? Errrrr - not always. You get more gyroscopic stability from the wheels, but high speed instability resulting from worn / out of balance tyres sometimes require steering dampers to keep bikes under control. And with partially filled fuel tanks, as the oscillations start, the tank slapper can come on. Have I ever had a tank slapper below 70 kph? Never. Have I had any tank slappers above 140kph? Yup.
At speed you turn with your body weight, not handlebars? Errrrr - only if you are really careful about it, and don't need to turn in a hurry. And if you do it this way, you have to be real careful for the bike not to fall in. Now what really happens if you want to turn left at high speed is that you push slightly with your left hand, and pull with your right. Get that? By steering to the right, the centralpetal force will make the bike want to turn left, and then you catch the fall with the handlebars when the bike is pointing in the right direction. Now if you try to turn suddenly with no hands on the handlebars, the front wheel will tuck under, and spit you off like a prat.
Do I speak from experience? More than 250,000 miles on R1s, Gixxers, Thunderaces, etc. Have I ever crashed by riding like these guys? No.
And as for the 140 in a 70. Sure - illegal. But these Gixxers can stop from 140 to zero in less distance than a clapped out banger can stop from 70.
rant from the UK over
"funny thing with bikes, at higher speeds, no hands riding is quite easy, and safe, higher speed = more stability, and at speed you turn with your body weight, not the handlebars. or even turn the Other way, to go left, you turn the front wheel a tad to the right and lean into the left.... and vice versa.."
Now the funny thing with bikes is that the front brakes are on the handlebars. In an emergency, if something runs out in the road, all a rider can do is stamp on the rear brake. This equals rear wheel lock up lock = slide into back of parked car.
Higher speed = more stability? Errrrr - not always. You get more gyroscopic stability from the wheels, but high speed instability resulting from worn / out of balance tyres sometimes require steering dampers to keep bikes under control. And with partially filled fuel tanks, as the oscillations start, the tank slapper can come on. Have I ever had a tank slapper below 70 kph? Never. Have I had any tank slappers above 140kph? Yup.
At speed you turn with your body weight, not handlebars? Errrrr - only if you are really careful about it, and don't need to turn in a hurry. And if you do it this way, you have to be real careful for the bike not to fall in. Now what really happens if you want to turn left at high speed is that you push slightly with your left hand, and pull with your right. Get that? By steering to the right, the centralpetal force will make the bike want to turn left, and then you catch the fall with the handlebars when the bike is pointing in the right direction. Now if you try to turn suddenly with no hands on the handlebars, the front wheel will tuck under, and spit you off like a prat.
Do I speak from experience? More than 250,000 miles on R1s, Gixxers, Thunderaces, etc. Have I ever crashed by riding like these guys? No.
And as for the 140 in a 70. Sure - illegal. But these Gixxers can stop from 140 to zero in less distance than a clapped out banger can stop from 70.
rant from the UK over
Last edited by D SQDRN 97th IOTC; 10th Oct 2005 at 16:51.
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Eacott, what do you think he is gonna say? You actually think he'd tell the truth? And admitting that you drive / ride as fast as you can whenever you THINK you can get away with it?
Goodo mate. So what happens when that kid jumps out on the road in frint of you. You must be reeeeeaaaaaallly goooood.
Fricking glad I don't have to go flying with you.
Goodo mate. So what happens when that kid jumps out on the road in frint of you. You must be reeeeeaaaaaallly goooood.
Fricking glad I don't have to go flying with you.
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Have to agree with SQDRN 97th,
It is the stopping ability that makes it all the more different from a car.
Balance, you have obviously never spent any real time on a motorcycle otherwise you would not be harping on about 140 in a 70. Just like 180 in 100 is no problem on the right road either.
I admit it's illegal but nearly impossible to control the urge to go fast, especially on a bendy road.
I vote for different speed limits (or even different roads) for bikes!
By the way how someone rides there tranportation on the road has no correlation to how they do their job. Otherwise accountants would always be falling asleep at the wheel in their Volvo's.
It is the stopping ability that makes it all the more different from a car.
Balance, you have obviously never spent any real time on a motorcycle otherwise you would not be harping on about 140 in a 70. Just like 180 in 100 is no problem on the right road either.
I admit it's illegal but nearly impossible to control the urge to go fast, especially on a bendy road.
I vote for different speed limits (or even different roads) for bikes!
By the way how someone rides there tranportation on the road has no correlation to how they do their job. Otherwise accountants would always be falling asleep at the wheel in their Volvo's.
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balance, I'm glad you're not a Magistrate.
You were not in court to hear the evidence and yet you make a conclusion that is opposite to the Magistrate's findings.
You seem to think that all police are infallible. Police make mistakes in observations and that is leaving out the corruption (although I do not suggest that there was any corruption in that instance).
It is up to the police to prove the offence beyond reasonable doubt. If there is any plausible explanation for the police observations, or there is any doubt as to ability to make observations, then how can anyone be certain that the alleged acts took place?
I do not understand how you make the connection where riding a bike fast makes you unfit to fly an aircraft. I like to ride bikes fast but always fly within the limits of the POH and/or Ops manual - I'm sure that is the case with the DJ pilots.
You were not in court to hear the evidence and yet you make a conclusion that is opposite to the Magistrate's findings.
You seem to think that all police are infallible. Police make mistakes in observations and that is leaving out the corruption (although I do not suggest that there was any corruption in that instance).
It is up to the police to prove the offence beyond reasonable doubt. If there is any plausible explanation for the police observations, or there is any doubt as to ability to make observations, then how can anyone be certain that the alleged acts took place?
I do not understand how you make the connection where riding a bike fast makes you unfit to fly an aircraft. I like to ride bikes fast but always fly within the limits of the POH and/or Ops manual - I'm sure that is the case with the DJ pilots.
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This may hve been said, but my position is that if you're prepared to wilfully violate the law on the raod, then you are probably prepared towilfully violate the law elsewhere; why wouldn't you?
Iceblock said "I admit it's illegal but nearly impossible to control the urge to go fast, especially on a bendy road."
That may be so, just as I occasionally find it "nearly impossible" to choke my wife, but I resist because it's a violation of the laws of the country.
When people wilfully violate the laws, and if that is accepted as the 'norm', then the country descends into anarchy.
Have I ever been guilty of speeding? Once about 30 years ago, although not wilfully, copped the heavy fine, and haven't done it since. I don't pretend to be a good two shoes, but I do have a sense of responsibility toward other road users and the community, and no doubt a fear of the c nsequences if I came unstuck.
However this is seen, it can't be good publicity for VB in my view, and shouldn't be seen any differently from DUI which has always been regarded seriously by airlines, and perhaps indicative of a deeper underlying problem.
D SQdrn 97th I accept what you say about stopping, and obviously you're an experienced rider, but if this resulted ina death of a third party, then it would be the slammer for Mr Devlin.
I suppose I see the actual location of the offence, Queens Road with a 70 kph limit, as opposed to the Calder freeway with 100 kph limit, as being the ultimate im stupidity.
At least he fits the VB image, so widely publicised over the past couple of days with regard to the old boilers case, and that is one of flamboyance, and fun, fun, fun. I thought that was what kids had a preschool. Oh well, perhaps showing may age.
If they feel the need for speed that badly, why not spend a hundred bucks, hire the use of Calder Park for a while and belt the $hit out of the bike. Too responsible? Too costly?? Could even do a VB mag spread on the lads. Now there's a ti p for tricky dicky
"Was he booked for speeding or; wearing an 80's bomber jacket, aviator sunnies, no helmet and some really crappy background music (bet he was humming it at least)"
Probably right on there TT
Iceblock said "I admit it's illegal but nearly impossible to control the urge to go fast, especially on a bendy road."
That may be so, just as I occasionally find it "nearly impossible" to choke my wife, but I resist because it's a violation of the laws of the country.
When people wilfully violate the laws, and if that is accepted as the 'norm', then the country descends into anarchy.
Have I ever been guilty of speeding? Once about 30 years ago, although not wilfully, copped the heavy fine, and haven't done it since. I don't pretend to be a good two shoes, but I do have a sense of responsibility toward other road users and the community, and no doubt a fear of the c nsequences if I came unstuck.
However this is seen, it can't be good publicity for VB in my view, and shouldn't be seen any differently from DUI which has always been regarded seriously by airlines, and perhaps indicative of a deeper underlying problem.
D SQdrn 97th I accept what you say about stopping, and obviously you're an experienced rider, but if this resulted ina death of a third party, then it would be the slammer for Mr Devlin.
I suppose I see the actual location of the offence, Queens Road with a 70 kph limit, as opposed to the Calder freeway with 100 kph limit, as being the ultimate im stupidity.
At least he fits the VB image, so widely publicised over the past couple of days with regard to the old boilers case, and that is one of flamboyance, and fun, fun, fun. I thought that was what kids had a preschool. Oh well, perhaps showing may age.
If they feel the need for speed that badly, why not spend a hundred bucks, hire the use of Calder Park for a while and belt the $hit out of the bike. Too responsible? Too costly?? Could even do a VB mag spread on the lads. Now there's a ti p for tricky dicky
"Was he booked for speeding or; wearing an 80's bomber jacket, aviator sunnies, no helmet and some really crappy background music (bet he was humming it at least)"
Probably right on there TT
Last edited by relax737; 10th Oct 2005 at 22:32.
A wise man once said to me "you want to learn about your pilots - watch the way they drive". Very good advice.
I have been racing cars for nearly twenty years and I most certainly do NOT fly like I drive.
I used to be pretty 'positive' when I flew the bank runs in the Metro, but not anymore.
(Especially considering the equipment I'm now in)
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So does "positive" mean a little irresponsible 18 wheeler??
If so, then perhaps learning about your pilots from the way they drive isn't all that inaccurate!! Maybe.
And what equipment do you drive now, a semi trailer or 747?
If so, then perhaps learning about your pilots from the way they drive isn't all that inaccurate!! Maybe.
And what equipment do you drive now, a semi trailer or 747?
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Both guys are two of the sharpest riders around that I know. Plenty of track time between them and neither are reckless in anything that they choose to do.
As has been mentioned earlier, 140 on a GSXR
Now the clapped out cop car doing 160 to catch them, that is just plain irresponsible!
Their work ethic and ability has gotten them where they are today.
The remarks regarding their professionalism is just sour grapes.
Happy riding,
Contract Con
As has been mentioned earlier, 140 on a GSXR
Now the clapped out cop car doing 160 to catch them, that is just plain irresponsible!
Their work ethic and ability has gotten them where they are today.
The remarks regarding their professionalism is just sour grapes.
Happy riding,
Contract Con
Bottums Up
Jeez, some folk are drawing long bows. To draw a correlation between the willingness to speed and therefore break Air laws is utter codswallop.
I know because I've only become an adherer of speed limits as I've gotten older and realised that the fines aren't worth it. However, I don't fly >250 kias B100 in Class G, bust minimas, overload, diverge off track without a clearance etc etc.
I will say though, if I didn't sit on 140 kph for much of my road journeys to MEL or ADL or BNE, or WA, I'd never get there. Ya gotta love The Territory, where you can overtake a copper at 140klicks, and they don't even blink at you!
I know because I've only become an adherer of speed limits as I've gotten older and realised that the fines aren't worth it. However, I don't fly >250 kias B100 in Class G, bust minimas, overload, diverge off track without a clearance etc etc.
I will say though, if I didn't sit on 140 kph for much of my road journeys to MEL or ADL or BNE, or WA, I'd never get there. Ya gotta love The Territory, where you can overtake a copper at 140klicks, and they don't even blink at you!
Relax 737
Relax737 you say
Surely you would resist for other reasons before lawful ones??
There's the law and there's simply doing the right thing...
The bigger difference here is surely the case that a misdemeanor in speeding on your bike only risks yourself. With a passenger jet its a totally different story... and there's no data logger on a bike, I would assume that if every vehicle had a black-box we would all behave just the way that you want us all to.
That may be so, just as I occasionally find it "nearly impossible" to choke my wife, but I resist because it's a violation of the laws of the country.
There's the law and there's simply doing the right thing...
The bigger difference here is surely the case that a misdemeanor in speeding on your bike only risks yourself. With a passenger jet its a totally different story... and there's no data logger on a bike, I would assume that if every vehicle had a black-box we would all behave just the way that you want us all to.
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The bigger difference here is surely the case that a misdemeanor in speeding on your bike only risks yourself.
Have a think about it LB. What about the pedestrian you hit? What about the car you hit? A bike that size would weight 300 kgs??? travelling at 140 kph. That's a lot of kgs lbs there.
Small frontal area as well. If it hit a car square on the driver's door, then the driver would be killed, surely.
I don't care if these guys risk their own lives, but don't take risks with others.
The point I made was that if they really feel the nbeed to go that fast, Calder Park is probably a better bet than Queens Road.
Have a think about it LB. What about the pedestrian you hit? What about the car you hit? A bike that size would weight 300 kgs??? travelling at 140 kph. That's a lot of kgs lbs there.
Small frontal area as well. If it hit a car square on the driver's door, then the driver would be killed, surely.
I don't care if these guys risk their own lives, but don't take risks with others.
The point I made was that if they really feel the nbeed to go that fast, Calder Park is probably a better bet than Queens Road.
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ah 135mph on the A22 Caterham bypass, those were the days.........
136 in France once, cos back then les flic's n'allez bother pas with the paper work...
kids now, so none of that silly [sic] stuff anymore.
I don't see a problem at all with what those two guys were doing. (it was dry, wasn't it ? )
currently expecting a 85 radar on the Glebe Island 60, but wife has run a red so she's 300 ducks ahead <snigger>
136 in France once, cos back then les flic's n'allez bother pas with the paper work...
kids now, so none of that silly [sic] stuff anymore.
I don't see a problem at all with what those two guys were doing. (it was dry, wasn't it ? )
currently expecting a 85 radar on the Glebe Island 60, but wife has run a red so she's 300 ducks ahead <snigger>
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Ya gotta love The Territory, where you can overtake a copper at 140klicks, and they don't even blink at you
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Onya Pat. Good to see a Pilot with a zest for life. I do pity these pathetic sods living in their politically, morally, socially correct worlds.
If I drove like I flew, I would have been a road statistic years ago.
If I drove like I flew, I would have been a road statistic years ago.
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You people who seem to suggest that it is OK not just to speed, but to speed excessively, absolutely disgust me.
Why? Try losing someone you love to reckless behaviour on the road. I have. It ain't nice, I can tell you.
But then for you guys, it's just "fun" right? WRONG.
Spinner, you are getting "zest for life" and "irresponsible behaviour" mixed up. No one is suggesting you can't have fun. 18 Wheeler does it on a track. Fine, good on yer mate. But you do it on the open road and risk the life of my babies just because you want to have "fun", and I will condemn your behaviour.
You people who are suggesting that speeding is OK are acting like surly, immature teenagers. Grow up.
Thank you, relax. You took up my argument and put it far more eloquently than I could hope to. Good to see someone else out there who doesnt behave like an immature fool looking for an accident.
Why? Try losing someone you love to reckless behaviour on the road. I have. It ain't nice, I can tell you.
But then for you guys, it's just "fun" right? WRONG.
Spinner, you are getting "zest for life" and "irresponsible behaviour" mixed up. No one is suggesting you can't have fun. 18 Wheeler does it on a track. Fine, good on yer mate. But you do it on the open road and risk the life of my babies just because you want to have "fun", and I will condemn your behaviour.
You people who are suggesting that speeding is OK are acting like surly, immature teenagers. Grow up.
Thank you, relax. You took up my argument and put it far more eloquently than I could hope to. Good to see someone else out there who doesnt behave like an immature fool looking for an accident.
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I know because I've only become an adherer of speed limits as I've gotten older and realised that the fines aren't worth it.
BTW Missed Bracken Ridge by 1 day....Hands up all those licenced drivers/riders who've never sped, intentionally or otherwise?
Nope, thought not. I guarantee in SY if you stick to the speed limit you would soon get hit from behind by EVERYONE else who isn't adhering to the limit. That's just the way it is. Everyone's in a hurry to get somewhere...
Relax737, the bikes in mention weigh approx 170kg dry. Even my Bavarian Money Waster weighs less than 250kg
As a matter of fact, the majority of collisions involving cars and motorcycles (in Oz) are caused by the car driver. Something in the order of 75%. Therefore, if the T-bone you described occured, it would most likely be the car driver's fault.
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Its articles like this that make me hate the media and clearly alot of you here who posted have fallen into the trap. Read the last few lines of the article, the FACTS are that they were found GUILTY of SPEEDING being 25-30 km/h (which in Victoria equals a mandatory 1 month suspension of your drivers licence) over the limit and CARELESS DRIVING. NOT 140 in a 70 zone as the article would have you believe. BTW are you sure your in balance, balance or a you really that much of a fw/believer? I'd be more worried about the coppers doing 160 to catch up.