Jetstar to Europe & USA
Dear UR2 It seems my good fellow you suffer from that unmentionable male disorder that makes you look around and compare yourself with other males and surmise that you are in fact bigger than they are, but alas it is rarely true, there is always someone bigger. Just food for thought
Join Date: Aug 2001
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BankAngle50,
Nice shot of Magda, but they look like J-cls leather seats…
Jettlager,
I agree with the general gist of your post, but as per Jetblues’ example: ‘… an A330 full of 300+ ferals… ‘.
That’s my point. You will fill a cheap A330 with 300+ ferals/bogans going on the Big Trip to Rome as they are happy to pay feral/bogan fares. You, me and the traveller on an account are not, so we will go on SQ, CX, EK or some other full-service carrier into the same port and get our FF points and free drinks on the way. And most of us mere mortals don’t get ID90s.
Pitch is merely a transitory issue for the feral/bogan market – which they probably wouldn’t think to ask about anyway.
Price is key for that market. A few A330s, say 4 or 5, doing twice-a-week runs into 3 or 4 non-business-travel ports, using the likes of Serco and Servisair for GH, is a workable business model. There are some issues such as crew slipping and the need to operate into full-cost airfields which need to be overcome but, fortunately or unfortunately, it will happen.
Jetblues…
One suspects that if GD had to go to Rome (can’t think why he would), he’d 1A it on QF1 up to EGLL and meet the ex-shareholders before backtracking, or if he was in a bit of a rush, same seat on CX via Honkers. He’d need the 80” pitch for his wallet…
But, those of his family who don’t qualify for IDs might be more price-sensitive…
Nice shot of Magda, but they look like J-cls leather seats…
Jettlager,
I agree with the general gist of your post, but as per Jetblues’ example: ‘… an A330 full of 300+ ferals… ‘.
That’s my point. You will fill a cheap A330 with 300+ ferals/bogans going on the Big Trip to Rome as they are happy to pay feral/bogan fares. You, me and the traveller on an account are not, so we will go on SQ, CX, EK or some other full-service carrier into the same port and get our FF points and free drinks on the way. And most of us mere mortals don’t get ID90s.
Pitch is merely a transitory issue for the feral/bogan market – which they probably wouldn’t think to ask about anyway.
Price is key for that market. A few A330s, say 4 or 5, doing twice-a-week runs into 3 or 4 non-business-travel ports, using the likes of Serco and Servisair for GH, is a workable business model. There are some issues such as crew slipping and the need to operate into full-cost airfields which need to be overcome but, fortunately or unfortunately, it will happen.
Jetblues…
One suspects that if GD had to go to Rome (can’t think why he would), he’d 1A it on QF1 up to EGLL and meet the ex-shareholders before backtracking, or if he was in a bit of a rush, same seat on CX via Honkers. He’d need the 80” pitch for his wallet…
But, those of his family who don’t qualify for IDs might be more price-sensitive…
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I reckon Seatback is on the money here.
I've said this a million times before, and I'll say it again... I think JQ/AO will get all the A330s and QF will order 777/787s. The only question is of merger/takeover/renaming of AO/JQ. Obviously 'Australian' makes sense internationally, but we'll just have to wait to see.
I've said this a million times before, and I'll say it again... I think JQ/AO will get all the A330s and QF will order 777/787s. The only question is of merger/takeover/renaming of AO/JQ. Obviously 'Australian' makes sense internationally, but we'll just have to wait to see.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Come th emerger of jetstar Asia with Valueair the new name is going to be Orange Star, could this be because Australian is a burnt orange colour?
I wonder.
Apparently JQ was adamant that this had to be the name.
I wonder.
Apparently JQ was adamant that this had to be the name.
Join Date: May 2000
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Taildragger67 Yeah it must be a J class seats. How else would Magda fit in a Jet* cabin?
I think your right about the Feral class 330’s. Most of us that have been to these ports would know how expensive places like Rome can be. So the question is; Can people, that cant really afford to fly in the first place, afford to holiday in Rome?
I have put off international trips because of cost; and for me the fare would be ID90.
Guess what im saying is that the airfare is only a small % of the cost of an international holiday. Think it would work well on crappy places likes Bali, Phuket etc, but im not convinced about the more expensive destinations (HKG, LAX, DXB, JFK, YVR, FCU etc…). How cheap can the fares be @ USD68bbl? The hedge runs out at the end of this year. You cant save that much on these sectors by charging for a meal.
Good luck!
Perhaps its all BS and a part of EBA neg?
I think your right about the Feral class 330’s. Most of us that have been to these ports would know how expensive places like Rome can be. So the question is; Can people, that cant really afford to fly in the first place, afford to holiday in Rome?
I have put off international trips because of cost; and for me the fare would be ID90.
Guess what im saying is that the airfare is only a small % of the cost of an international holiday. Think it would work well on crappy places likes Bali, Phuket etc, but im not convinced about the more expensive destinations (HKG, LAX, DXB, JFK, YVR, FCU etc…). How cheap can the fares be @ USD68bbl? The hedge runs out at the end of this year. You cant save that much on these sectors by charging for a meal.
Good luck!Perhaps its all BS and a part of EBA neg?
Join Date: Sep 2000
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All true Taildragger67
I've just reviewed the websites for a number of low fares carriers that operate the A330 (Air Transat of Canada, LTU from Germany, and the many British charter carriers using A330's like Monarch Airlines).
All are successful, no-frills airlines offering main screen IFE, basic meals with snacks and additional drinks extra at small cost.
These airlines wouldn't be in the position they are (some with a very long, rich history) were it not for the consistent demand that exists for low cost travel.
Sure, flying 'Jetstar/Australian/whatever!' long haul over 8 hours mightn't sound appealing, but with the savings generated through reduced inflight product and IFE, and the 'cram em in' seating plans (300+ in economy alone on most of these carriers), most people won't care!
BankAngle50,
From taking a look at the prices being charged on some flights (at the above airlines), quite a lot! Condor were charging $119US from Orlando to Germany non stop!
Only the Brit carriers seem to charge for inflight meals depending on the package purchased. By in large, the majority of these carriers provide 2 meals on long haul services, with extra paid for snacks and drinks as needed.
Do we have to like it? Not necessarily, but there will be plenty of people inbound and outbound that WILL pay these prices (and sacrifice a few small comforts) for the experience.
"That’s my point. You will fill a cheap A330 with 300+ ferals/bogans going on the Big Trip to Rome as they are happy to pay feral/bogan fares. You, me and the traveller on an account are not, so we will go on SQ, CX, EK or some other full-service carrier into the same port and get our FF points and free drinks on the way. And most of us mere mortals don’t get ID90s.
Pitch is merely a transitory issue for the feral/bogan market – which they probably wouldn’t think to ask about anyway.
Price is key for that market. A few A330s, say 4 or 5, doing twice-a-week runs into 3 or 4 non-business-travel ports, using the likes of Serco and Servisair for GH, is a workable business model. There are some issues such as crew slipping and the need to operate into full-cost airfields which need to be overcome but, fortunately or unfortunately, it will happen."
Pitch is merely a transitory issue for the feral/bogan market – which they probably wouldn’t think to ask about anyway.
Price is key for that market. A few A330s, say 4 or 5, doing twice-a-week runs into 3 or 4 non-business-travel ports, using the likes of Serco and Servisair for GH, is a workable business model. There are some issues such as crew slipping and the need to operate into full-cost airfields which need to be overcome but, fortunately or unfortunately, it will happen."
All are successful, no-frills airlines offering main screen IFE, basic meals with snacks and additional drinks extra at small cost.
These airlines wouldn't be in the position they are (some with a very long, rich history) were it not for the consistent demand that exists for low cost travel.
Sure, flying 'Jetstar/Australian/whatever!' long haul over 8 hours mightn't sound appealing, but with the savings generated through reduced inflight product and IFE, and the 'cram em in' seating plans (300+ in economy alone on most of these carriers), most people won't care!
BankAngle50,
"Guess what im saying is that the airfare is only a small % of the cost of an international holiday. Think it would work well on crappy places likes Bali, Phuket etc, but im not convinced about the more expensive destinations (HKG, LAX, DXB, JFK, YVR, FCU etc…). How cheap can the fares be @ USD68bbl? The hedge runs out at the end of this year. You cant save that much on these sectors by charging for a meal. Good luck!"
Only the Brit carriers seem to charge for inflight meals depending on the package purchased. By in large, the majority of these carriers provide 2 meals on long haul services, with extra paid for snacks and drinks as needed.
Do we have to like it? Not necessarily, but there will be plenty of people inbound and outbound that WILL pay these prices (and sacrifice a few small comforts) for the experience.
Ok then. Low cost UK charter carriers. How about what they pay their respective pilots! Here's a sample (2003 figures.)Top scale Capt figures. Air 2000 £88281, Britannia £ 89599, Excel $64136, Monarch £ 85476, My Travel $ 85371, Thomas Cook £88565 and for what it’s worth Virgin £90924 & BA Long Haul £120000.
For some airlines these figures represent the base and exclude allowances, comprehensive private health for you and the entire family and in some cases other things like company supplied laptopsand mobiles. Work out your own exchage rates if you wish. FO figures available for those interested. How do you reckon we are looking in Australia ?
For some airlines these figures represent the base and exclude allowances, comprehensive private health for you and the entire family and in some cases other things like company supplied laptopsand mobiles. Work out your own exchage rates if you wish. FO figures available for those interested. How do you reckon we are looking in Australia ?
Join Date: Jan 2005
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exactly
Even some company wannabes on Qroom are stating that its the economics of airline operation the will lead to J* getting the gig. In other words buy the BS management spin and do it for less. The gullible believe it often enough...
You get what you pay for but LCC carriers in europe don't need undercutting pilots to get it running, unfortunately the idiots at QF buy the crap. With an ageing population we will have a biting skills shortage meaning us in the generation to follow with skills in demand need only wait. The race to the bottom may help the company achieve a lower short term cost base...
But it simply is unsustainable. To quote a genius on Qroom is market economics..Exactly.....Demand for pilots will outstrip supply in most maturing western economies, australia included..
Vote the EBA-NO it's crap...
J* are there to spook us, but even J* will have upward cost pressures...
Before anyone asks i got me a spiffy business qual too, i read the same textbooks, Hotnhigh summed it up nicely, low cost isnt necessarily a low salaried pilot despite the poor souls at J* and some colleagues at mainline think, afterall the freaking accountants can't fly em
You get what you pay for but LCC carriers in europe don't need undercutting pilots to get it running, unfortunately the idiots at QF buy the crap. With an ageing population we will have a biting skills shortage meaning us in the generation to follow with skills in demand need only wait. The race to the bottom may help the company achieve a lower short term cost base...
But it simply is unsustainable. To quote a genius on Qroom is market economics..Exactly.....Demand for pilots will outstrip supply in most maturing western economies, australia included..
Vote the EBA-NO it's crap...
J* are there to spook us, but even J* will have upward cost pressures...
Before anyone asks i got me a spiffy business qual too, i read the same textbooks, Hotnhigh summed it up nicely, low cost isnt necessarily a low salaried pilot despite the poor souls at J* and some colleagues at mainline think, afterall the freaking accountants can't fly em
Did any of you actually read this article?
It has no FACT to it whatsoever. Have a re-read - it is simply an opinion of a journalist, who needs to write something in the week following QFs announcement of record profits. There is nothing factual in the article.
jet* flying to Nz, bali etc? Yep. No news there.
Elsewhere? Maybe. Many years down then track. But that would be determined by the market. Something many forget when we think in the comfort of our cosy cockpits. Which brings me to my last point:
Rather than crying foul about this, what is needed at QF(AIPA + Pilots) is a bit of clever thinking for a change, and shoring up all pilot groups under the one banner so that the company cant bid one against the other. Then we won't have the situation of career progress and future salaries being so unsettled/unknown.
It has no FACT to it whatsoever. Have a re-read - it is simply an opinion of a journalist, who needs to write something in the week following QFs announcement of record profits. There is nothing factual in the article.
jet* flying to Nz, bali etc? Yep. No news there.
Elsewhere? Maybe. Many years down then track. But that would be determined by the market. Something many forget when we think in the comfort of our cosy cockpits. Which brings me to my last point:
Rather than crying foul about this, what is needed at QF(AIPA + Pilots) is a bit of clever thinking for a change, and shoring up all pilot groups under the one banner so that the company cant bid one against the other. Then we won't have the situation of career progress and future salaries being so unsettled/unknown.
Aah yes Qfinsider. The good old accountants.
Don't you love the tv ad for chartered accountants that says you cant launch a bloody space shuttle without them. I would never had guessed.
Shame they justify their positions by screwing everything else.
Don't you love the tv ad for chartered accountants that says you cant launch a bloody space shuttle without them. I would never had guessed.
Shame they justify their positions by screwing everything else.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Ah! mmmbop. Ya hit th nail right on the head!
In fact it is time for not only all QF pilots to get together but AIPA and AFAP as well. We must stop the rot!
One, well informed, proactive and sensible umbrella organisation is needed to oversee the interest of all pilots in this country.
United we stand, divided we fall!
Rather than crying foul about this, what is needed at QF(AIPA + Pilots) is a bit of clever thinking for a change, and shoring up all pilot groups under the one banner so that the company cant bid one against the other. Then we won't have the situation of career progress and future salaries being so unsettled/unknown.
One, well informed, proactive and sensible umbrella organisation is needed to oversee the interest of all pilots in this country.
United we stand, divided we fall!
Grandpa Aerotart
hotnhigh have you been to Europe lately?
I would suggest to you that the only valid exchange rate to use to compare wages in the EU to wages in OZ is 1=1. A big mac costs 5 pounds in London and $5 in Brissy. Fuel is 1.30 odd pounds/liter in UK and $1.30 in Oz. It is not valid to multiply BA wages by 2.5 or 3 and say "OO look...BA pilots $350,000/yr or Ryanair pilots get $250,000/yr...we are being screwed!!!"
Mind you the several BA Captains living/based in OZ can
...imagine their tax bill!!!!
But the other 99.9% of pilots earning Pounds and Euros also spend in Pounds and Euros....in fact when you consider the low cost of quality lifestyle in Oz, beaches, boating, camping etc, I reckon OZ airline pilots are not doing badly at all.
I would suggest to you that the only valid exchange rate to use to compare wages in the EU to wages in OZ is 1=1. A big mac costs 5 pounds in London and $5 in Brissy. Fuel is 1.30 odd pounds/liter in UK and $1.30 in Oz. It is not valid to multiply BA wages by 2.5 or 3 and say "OO look...BA pilots $350,000/yr or Ryanair pilots get $250,000/yr...we are being screwed!!!"
Mind you the several BA Captains living/based in OZ can
...imagine their tax bill!!!!But the other 99.9% of pilots earning Pounds and Euros also spend in Pounds and Euros....in fact when you consider the low cost of quality lifestyle in Oz, beaches, boating, camping etc, I reckon OZ airline pilots are not doing badly at all.
Silly Old Git
When tin was flying in UK the same could be said 1 pound bought a dollars worth of goods.
Except in them days ya couldnt get a decent feed housing/flats were bloody near impossible to get the cars were all rusty and there was no sun
I was earning nearly six times the wage of a shop assistant and living on the bones of me arse.
Madam Thatcher finally got the sun to shine .
Except in them days ya couldnt get a decent feed housing/flats were bloody near impossible to get the cars were all rusty and there was no sun
I was earning nearly six times the wage of a shop assistant and living on the bones of me arse.
Madam Thatcher finally got the sun to shine .
