Singapore Airlines has a secret agenda.
Since when was singapore a level playing field? Came in the other evening when the sin airforce was practising(only 2 months to go) for its national day. Had to hold for 45 mins,nearly had to divert.That was bad enough,but to then see sin airlines being given normal approaches really sucked.
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Read somewhere that SIA is one of the worlds biggest based on market valuation.
They don't have any union problems, positioned in a natural hub and are cashed up. Yes, they also provide service that makes people want to fly with them. Profits now take care of themselves. With all that natural compost, the roses are blooming.
Qf want to be more like them, a tough road in Australia.
Friend inside QF says that their current thinking is that there is no more expansion possible. Profit margins must be increased through internal restructuring and cost cutting. You know what that means.
Perhaps to allow SQ in to Australia would allow them to do this and SQ would employ those Australians that will work as they want them to. Globalization spells bad news for unions and airlines like QF. They don't want a shark in the fish pond until they are as ready as they can be. From what I can see, they will never be fully ready. Therefore use the threat of mass unemployment to pressure the government for more time. Either way, the workers will get it in the neck.
The brave new world will require more work for the same or less money. The sooner persons like OCCR etc realize this .......
They don't have any union problems, positioned in a natural hub and are cashed up. Yes, they also provide service that makes people want to fly with them. Profits now take care of themselves. With all that natural compost, the roses are blooming.
Qf want to be more like them, a tough road in Australia.
Friend inside QF says that their current thinking is that there is no more expansion possible. Profit margins must be increased through internal restructuring and cost cutting. You know what that means.
Perhaps to allow SQ in to Australia would allow them to do this and SQ would employ those Australians that will work as they want them to. Globalization spells bad news for unions and airlines like QF. They don't want a shark in the fish pond until they are as ready as they can be. From what I can see, they will never be fully ready. Therefore use the threat of mass unemployment to pressure the government for more time. Either way, the workers will get it in the neck.
The brave new world will require more work for the same or less money. The sooner persons like OCCR etc realize this .......
Here we go again...
Were all you Qantas lovers standing at the picket lines when the car companies were told they would have their protection removed? No.
Why are all you Qantas lovers loudly screaming about SIA undercutting you deliberately? After all, what did you do to Compass I and II and then VB via your alter ego Jetstar?
When Ansett was drowning, did QF force a firehose down its throat to finish it off? Yes.
Do I care if all of you lose your jobs as a result of a wave of cheaper airfares? No. The jobs growth in the local tourism industry as a result will dwarf Qantas's entire workforce.
You are, with the greatest of respect, total and complete hypocrites.
Were all you Qantas lovers standing at the picket lines when the car companies were told they would have their protection removed? No.
Why are all you Qantas lovers loudly screaming about SIA undercutting you deliberately? After all, what did you do to Compass I and II and then VB via your alter ego Jetstar?
When Ansett was drowning, did QF force a firehose down its throat to finish it off? Yes.
Do I care if all of you lose your jobs as a result of a wave of cheaper airfares? No. The jobs growth in the local tourism industry as a result will dwarf Qantas's entire workforce.
You are, with the greatest of respect, total and complete hypocrites.
Sunfish
For your information I only travel on QF when I absolutely have to and that is very few and far between. I am the last to be called a QF lover but I have a very good understanding of the history and workings of the international airline environment. Fifth freedom rights have and continue to be the biggest stumbling block to “REAL OPEN SKIES” anywhere in the world. Every single country that says it embraces open skies are only playing the mouth music everyone wants to hear. The Singaporeans are very protective of their own airlines and play extreme hard ball when it comes to fifth freedom rights through their country.
It is quite clear from your previous threads on QF, including this one, you have an agenda against them. Since your views are clearly biased and emotionally driven, anything you have to say should be ignored as you aren’t looking at it from an unbiased and open minded point of view.
For your information I only travel on QF when I absolutely have to and that is very few and far between. I am the last to be called a QF lover but I have a very good understanding of the history and workings of the international airline environment. Fifth freedom rights have and continue to be the biggest stumbling block to “REAL OPEN SKIES” anywhere in the world. Every single country that says it embraces open skies are only playing the mouth music everyone wants to hear. The Singaporeans are very protective of their own airlines and play extreme hard ball when it comes to fifth freedom rights through their country.
It is quite clear from your previous threads on QF, including this one, you have an agenda against them. Since your views are clearly biased and emotionally driven, anything you have to say should be ignored as you aren’t looking at it from an unbiased and open minded point of view.
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Do I care if all of you lose your jobs as a result of a wave of cheaper airfares? No.
Those jobs you speak of will go to OVERSEAS Airlines, the tourism money will substantially go to OVERSEAS interests; basically few Australians would benefit, because we will have sold out yet again.
But then we can only thank the Lord that there are those far smarter than YOU making the decisions, because you would happily sell your soul to destroy Qantas.
How about you go back to Sydney bashing, eh?
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Solutions?
Just once I would love someone to come up with some constructive solutions instead of the bashing,insults personal vitriol and bating that have come to characterize any thread regarding Qantas
404 and Titan. When the car industry was deregulated, did you stand on the picket lines and say "This is a national disgrace! I am prepared to pay an extra $1000 to buy a Holden, no matter how crappy it is, because it is in the national interest"?
With the greatest of respect, of course you didn't!!!!!! You took your discount and looked the other way!!! this is despite the fact that the car industry at the time employed about five times what Qantas did!!!!!!!!!
And yet you have the GALL to suggest that you are a special case?????????????????????????????
I couldn't give a flying f*%^ if you are Qantas, Ansett VB or whoever, but you cannot embrace "globalisation" in some industries while refraining from it in your own.
If you are to be true to your supposed beliefs, you will oppose ALL trade liberalisation, which of course you won't do.
And furthermore, how many of you arew refusing to fly with cabin staff who are not Australian and based in Australia? And when you heavy maintenance moves to China, how many of you are going to refuce to flu the aircraft??????
That, my friends, is total hypocrisy, nothing more, nothing less..
Furthermore, there is good economic theory that says if someone is stupid enough to sell you product at less than the price of production, then you are stupid not to accept it.
We can always rebuild Qantas later, and do it without the stench of S$%# that surrounds it.
To put it another way so that you understand it, you are total hypocrits, but of course QF didn't teach you anything except flying did they?
To put it another way, where you stands depends on where you sit. You demonstrate this beautifully. If SIA offered all of you Captains positions with lots of $$$$ you would change your tune immediately.
With the greatest of respect, of course you didn't!!!!!! You took your discount and looked the other way!!! this is despite the fact that the car industry at the time employed about five times what Qantas did!!!!!!!!!
And yet you have the GALL to suggest that you are a special case?????????????????????????????
I couldn't give a flying f*%^ if you are Qantas, Ansett VB or whoever, but you cannot embrace "globalisation" in some industries while refraining from it in your own.
If you are to be true to your supposed beliefs, you will oppose ALL trade liberalisation, which of course you won't do.
And furthermore, how many of you arew refusing to fly with cabin staff who are not Australian and based in Australia? And when you heavy maintenance moves to China, how many of you are going to refuce to flu the aircraft??????
That, my friends, is total hypocrisy, nothing more, nothing less..
Furthermore, there is good economic theory that says if someone is stupid enough to sell you product at less than the price of production, then you are stupid not to accept it.
We can always rebuild Qantas later, and do it without the stench of S$%# that surrounds it.
To put it another way so that you understand it, you are total hypocrits, but of course QF didn't teach you anything except flying did they?
To put it another way, where you stands depends on where you sit. You demonstrate this beautifully. If SIA offered all of you Captains positions with lots of $$$$ you would change your tune immediately.
Last edited by Sunfish; 13th Jun 2005 at 09:19.
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Would one single route being opened up be the demise of QF?. Wouldn't they just compete like any other time. They have done a pretty good job against Compass, Ansett, Virgin, etc.
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Good point Sunfish.
As you say HGW, QF will compete - just as it does against so many other competitors on the world arena.
One more on the pacific means the end of QF - if that's the case then things are far worse than we all imagine...
As you say HGW, QF will compete - just as it does against so many other competitors on the world arena.
One more on the pacific means the end of QF - if that's the case then things are far worse than we all imagine...
Sunfish
You sir are talking BS.
For your information I am totally anti free trade and globalization and I have made my point known on this forum before. These economic boffins, and I call them this for a very good reason because most are academics with no real world experience piss me off. As an accountant I detest most of them. If you want to see what trade liberalization is doing right now you can look no further than the textile industries in both the US and Europe. Both opened up their markets to quota less imports in January this year. Within two months imports from China to both these places increased close the 2000%. Yes that’s right 2000%. Quite rightly both Europe and the US are now going to reimpose quotas to stop the Chinese from abusing the situation. Globalization is all very well and good if everyone and I mean everyone plays by the same rules. Unfortunately every country is out there to protect its own interest and this my friend defeats the who premise of globalization.
You want to talk about the car industry? Fine, I'll go there. You tell me any car maker that is Australian owned? You can’t can you. They are all American or Japanese. At the time it was quite obvious to the Federal Labour Government that if the subsidization remained most of these car makers were not going to have the incentive to invest in new plant and equipment to improve the efficiency of the car manufacturing industry in this country. The Button plan was to make Australia a car exporter. Up until that time the only cars exported were to NZ and PNG. Now I regularly see Commodores in the Middle East as well as Australian built Camry’s in other parts of the world. Does the total Australian car industry employ more people than before? No. This is mostly due to Mitsubishi which has major problems with its parent company in Japan and has closed plants in this country and the USA because it doesn’t have the resources to keep them running. Will the Australian car industry survive? Who knows? Certainly if is going to it is going to have to make further inroads into the export market because Australia is too small a place to support a car industry in its own right.
They didn't teach me anything because I don't work for them.
Just for the record I work for one of those airlines that are trying to get access to the Aus/US route. My tune still hasn’t changed. If fifth freedom rights are going to be handed out then every country must open up there markets to everyone else. Then and only then will there be true globalization in the aviation industry. This though will never happen because every country wants to protect its own airlines. Why should Australia once again be the sacrificial lamb to an economic theory which isn’t going to work unless everyone else plays by the same rules?
Well this last quote just proves my case. You have an axe to grind with QF, nothing more, nothing less and everything you have to say is an emotive response which lacks all credibility.
If you are to be true to your supposed beliefs, you will oppose ALL trade liberalisation, which of course you won't do.
For your information I am totally anti free trade and globalization and I have made my point known on this forum before. These economic boffins, and I call them this for a very good reason because most are academics with no real world experience piss me off. As an accountant I detest most of them. If you want to see what trade liberalization is doing right now you can look no further than the textile industries in both the US and Europe. Both opened up their markets to quota less imports in January this year. Within two months imports from China to both these places increased close the 2000%. Yes that’s right 2000%. Quite rightly both Europe and the US are now going to reimpose quotas to stop the Chinese from abusing the situation. Globalization is all very well and good if everyone and I mean everyone plays by the same rules. Unfortunately every country is out there to protect its own interest and this my friend defeats the who premise of globalization.
404 and Titan. When the car industry was deregulated, did you stand on the picket lines and say "This is a national disgrace! I am prepared to pay an extra $1000 to buy a Holden, no matter how crappy it is, because it is in the national interest"?
To put it another way so that you understand it, you are total hypocrits, but of course QF didn't teach you anything except flying did they?
To put it another way, where you stands depends on where you sit. You demonstrate this beautifully. If SIA offered all of you Captains positions with lots of $$$$ you would change your tune immediately.
We can always rebuild Qantas later, and do it without the stench of S$%# that surrounds it.
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Zero respect, Sunfish. Zero.
I should ask you, who does the hypocrisy rest with? You pontificate about the Australian car industry, and how "WE" have sold it out.
This somehow justifies selling out the Australian Airline industry? As though two wrongs will make everything right? There is NO logic in this argument.
YOU, Sir, are the hypocrit.
Your logic is seriously flawed, and as 404 states, you have an emotional bent against Qantas. This is clouding your judgement and ensuring that your reasoning is unsound.
Like I said, ZERO respect. Now please, please go back to something you know about. Bash Sydney, not Qantas.
I should ask you, who does the hypocrisy rest with? You pontificate about the Australian car industry, and how "WE" have sold it out.
This somehow justifies selling out the Australian Airline industry? As though two wrongs will make everything right? There is NO logic in this argument.
YOU, Sir, are the hypocrit.
Your logic is seriously flawed, and as 404 states, you have an emotional bent against Qantas. This is clouding your judgement and ensuring that your reasoning is unsound.
Like I said, ZERO respect. Now please, please go back to something you know about. Bash Sydney, not Qantas.
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All airlines around the globe will put out the same old scare tactics to protect their turf....QF is no different to the rest in that regard.
Given QF have often stated they could not make a go of SIN to CDG with only 3 weekly frequencies,but wanted daily, then the Aust Government should let SQ have 3 flights a week SYD to LAX, increasing to daily when the Singapore Govt can negotiate with France and provide QF with daily rights SIN-CDG!
I have no problem with our Government granting more traffic rights, provided there are equivalent rights granted to Australia.
Given QF have often stated they could not make a go of SIN to CDG with only 3 weekly frequencies,but wanted daily, then the Aust Government should let SQ have 3 flights a week SYD to LAX, increasing to daily when the Singapore Govt can negotiate with France and provide QF with daily rights SIN-CDG!
I have no problem with our Government granting more traffic rights, provided there are equivalent rights granted to Australia.
Schnaus baby, I have to tell you and 403titan something.
Every manufacturing industry in Australia is competing against imports, often from China.
Every car company in the world is locked in competition with imports. GM and Fords' commercial paper (bonds) are now rated "Junk " by Wall Street.
Even our services sector is under great pressure either from call centre operators in Thailand or computer programmers in India.
Every farmer and miner is competing against farmers and miners elsewhere.
Now there are three common features of this situation.
1. This competition and resultant specialisation is driving the biggest increase in standards of living throughout the world since time began. Economic rationalism and globalisation are not new theories, they have been around for 100 years. Its only taken this long to get rid of the whiners and special pleaders who prevent change
2. If any of our local industries cannot compete, they go under. However we already know that most of them can compete very nicely thankyou.
3. Airlines, airline pilots and aircraft manufacturers are beneficiaries of these changes because the growth in Asia is being driven by globalisation.
4. The opening of borders, especialy in Europe, and fifth freedom rights have already generated a massive increase in the amount of air travel through the use of low cost carriers.
Yet in spite of the fact that globalisation has delivered all these benefits into your own industry, you still persist with the quaint and outmoded idea, that out of ALL the businesses in Australia, there is one, just one, Qantas, that must be protected like the proverbial Koala?????
Its hypocrisy, pure and simple.
To put it another way mate. Do you want to pay $300 or $100 for a power drill? Do you want to protect Qantas? If you want the benefit of the $100 drill, then you don't get to protect Qantas without being a Hypocrit.
BTW, we don't know if QF is an Australian company anymore anyway. Its largest shareholder is an American Nominee company, your maintenance is probably going offshore and you already employ large numbers of foriegn cabin crew who aren't even based in Australia, and will probably increase the numbers if management can get away with it. QF is an Australian brand name, nothing more.
Every manufacturing industry in Australia is competing against imports, often from China.
Every car company in the world is locked in competition with imports. GM and Fords' commercial paper (bonds) are now rated "Junk " by Wall Street.
Even our services sector is under great pressure either from call centre operators in Thailand or computer programmers in India.
Every farmer and miner is competing against farmers and miners elsewhere.
Now there are three common features of this situation.
1. This competition and resultant specialisation is driving the biggest increase in standards of living throughout the world since time began. Economic rationalism and globalisation are not new theories, they have been around for 100 years. Its only taken this long to get rid of the whiners and special pleaders who prevent change
2. If any of our local industries cannot compete, they go under. However we already know that most of them can compete very nicely thankyou.
3. Airlines, airline pilots and aircraft manufacturers are beneficiaries of these changes because the growth in Asia is being driven by globalisation.
4. The opening of borders, especialy in Europe, and fifth freedom rights have already generated a massive increase in the amount of air travel through the use of low cost carriers.
Yet in spite of the fact that globalisation has delivered all these benefits into your own industry, you still persist with the quaint and outmoded idea, that out of ALL the businesses in Australia, there is one, just one, Qantas, that must be protected like the proverbial Koala?????
Its hypocrisy, pure and simple.
To put it another way mate. Do you want to pay $300 or $100 for a power drill? Do you want to protect Qantas? If you want the benefit of the $100 drill, then you don't get to protect Qantas without being a Hypocrit.
BTW, we don't know if QF is an Australian company anymore anyway. Its largest shareholder is an American Nominee company, your maintenance is probably going offshore and you already employ large numbers of foriegn cabin crew who aren't even based in Australia, and will probably increase the numbers if management can get away with it. QF is an Australian brand name, nothing more.
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Sunfish, you are a fool who just cannot listen, because you are so emotively bent against Qantas. You will make any fact fit your argument, rightly or wrongly. Your attitude is quite sociopathic.
You are suggesting on one hand that globalisation of the car industry was a bad thing, yet promoting it when it comes to Qantas. YOU are the HYPOCRIT. The logic that you are using is fundamentally flawed.
You have no right to call my collegues or I hypocrits on the basis of our employment. To do so is callous and wrong. We are earning a living the best way that we can. We are the last bastion of reasonable pay and conditions of airline employees in this country.
Yet YOU seem to think that we have no right to this because YOU say so? Because YOU think that YOU know what is best?
Two words for you mate, and they aint very nice....
I don't expect you to listen, because you neither read nor understood my previous post. I'm out of here...
You are suggesting on one hand that globalisation of the car industry was a bad thing, yet promoting it when it comes to Qantas. YOU are the HYPOCRIT. The logic that you are using is fundamentally flawed.
You have no right to call my collegues or I hypocrits on the basis of our employment. To do so is callous and wrong. We are earning a living the best way that we can. We are the last bastion of reasonable pay and conditions of airline employees in this country.
Yet YOU seem to think that we have no right to this because YOU say so? Because YOU think that YOU know what is best?
Two words for you mate, and they aint very nice....
I don't expect you to listen, because you neither read nor understood my previous post. I'm out of here...