NEWSFLASH - possible mid-air explosion over Stratford, NZ
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Firstly, condolences to all concerned...
Deadhead,
steady wing overheat light, indicates a wheel well issue, so, bleed air (affected side) off, generator (affected side) off, and gear down, timing for three minutes, to allow cooling.
Flashing wing overheat light, indicates a leading edge or acm issue, so, as above but without the gear.
hope this helps, info only...
A good point was made relating to the freefall of the gear, I didn't know that...
Deadhead,
steady wing overheat light, indicates a wheel well issue, so, bleed air (affected side) off, generator (affected side) off, and gear down, timing for three minutes, to allow cooling.
Flashing wing overheat light, indicates a leading edge or acm issue, so, as above but without the gear.
hope this helps, info only...
A good point was made relating to the freefall of the gear, I didn't know that...
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mayday :
My condolances to all.
Far Canard ask's no mayday call given, all I can say from a absolutely sickening experiance, is that when you are fighting to survive, a mayday is the last thing on your mind , there is a F---ing lot happening in a short space of time, your mind goes else where, your physical thinking process, and you metabolisim do other things, and it doesn't matter how well you are trained.
In a morbid sort of way the crew are lucky, they do not have to live it.
As for the TAIC to do a full and open investigation, we will see.
Sickened to the core, absolutely sickened.
All for the love of the job, and a abysmal salary?????.
Hog R.
Far Canard ask's no mayday call given, all I can say from a absolutely sickening experiance, is that when you are fighting to survive, a mayday is the last thing on your mind , there is a F---ing lot happening in a short space of time, your mind goes else where, your physical thinking process, and you metabolisim do other things, and it doesn't matter how well you are trained.
In a morbid sort of way the crew are lucky, they do not have to live it.
As for the TAIC to do a full and open investigation, we will see.
Sickened to the core, absolutely sickened.
All for the love of the job, and a abysmal salary?????.
Hog R.
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Hog R - You have missed my point. If a fire light comes on at night you run the QRH and head for the nearest airport. In that case you would talk to ATC. I mentioned the lack of communication with ATC as in my mind these guys were faced with a sudden control issue / major event where they were either physically overcome or fighting for control.
I knew Roger and he was a good operator (Training Captain). So I am convinced he experienced a system or structural failure.
I am not sure why you made the statement:
All for the love of the job, and a abysmal salary?????.
It was not required as I find it somehow degrading to these two pilots. I am not sure you would even know what salary they were on.
I knew Roger and he was a good operator (Training Captain). So I am convinced he experienced a system or structural failure.
I am not sure why you made the statement:
All for the love of the job, and a abysmal salary?????.
It was not required as I find it somehow degrading to these two pilots. I am not sure you would even know what salary they were on.
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It never ceases to surprise how the most professional of people become the most speculative when faced with the unknown.
The only factual comment I've heard so far is that from accident investigator John Goddard who has indicated there was no internal fire, that is nothing in the mail being carried which caused a fire, and his observations were that the scorched areas were wing sourced and extended up around the outside rear fuselage and empennage.
Whether that initiated from the recent engine change is, again, pure speculation, though the scorched area seems to be all on one side of the aircraft.
TAIC is the New Zealand office which investigates, among other things, all transport accidents and as such, is always regarded by those who've never done any as being suspect!
http://www.taic.org.nz/
The only factual comment I've heard so far is that from accident investigator John Goddard who has indicated there was no internal fire, that is nothing in the mail being carried which caused a fire, and his observations were that the scorched areas were wing sourced and extended up around the outside rear fuselage and empennage.
Whether that initiated from the recent engine change is, again, pure speculation, though the scorched area seems to be all on one side of the aircraft.
TAIC is the New Zealand office which investigates, among other things, all transport accidents and as such, is always regarded by those who've never done any as being suspect!
http://www.taic.org.nz/
ironbutt,
Yes a metro 2 in Mirabel on approach about 50 feet before landing when the left wing separated, rolling and killing everyone. The wing burnt off from an intense conflagration that originated in the wheel well. They were returning to Mirabel for an emergency landing at the time.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/co...rs/AC0146r.htm
Yes a metro 2 in Mirabel on approach about 50 feet before landing when the left wing separated, rolling and killing everyone. The wing burnt off from an intense conflagration that originated in the wheel well. They were returning to Mirabel for an emergency landing at the time.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/co...rs/AC0146r.htm
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It would be unsafe to speculate on any paralells until more is known about the circumstances.
Lets keep it to the facts for the moment shall we, there will be an appropriate time for commentary, it is not now.
Lets keep it to the facts for the moment shall we, there will be an appropriate time for commentary, it is not now.
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Unsafe? Unwise, maybe, but unsafe? Don't think so.
There are no parallels you can draw anyway, except that two Metros crashed.
Some will say that we should all wait until the report is issued before commenting. Although I used to agree with that, I don't these days. The reports take way too long, and are sometines incomplete or contradictory.
There is nothing wrong with informed speculation, which is, in any case, exactly what the accident investigators will be doing.
If it is kept sensible and civil, it is entirely possible that a lot could be learned from those who know the aircraft well.
Anyway... probably asking far too much. I'll shut up now.
There are no parallels you can draw anyway, except that two Metros crashed.
Some will say that we should all wait until the report is issued before commenting. Although I used to agree with that, I don't these days. The reports take way too long, and are sometines incomplete or contradictory.
There is nothing wrong with informed speculation, which is, in any case, exactly what the accident investigators will be doing.
If it is kept sensible and civil, it is entirely possible that a lot could be learned from those who know the aircraft well.
Anyway... probably asking far too much. I'll shut up now.
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Has anyone any idea on the total time in service (approx) would be fine. The status of the wing spar web inspection AD status ?
If this aircraft was enroute tyres wheel well fires don't just start they are usually associated with hot brakes or major malfunctions.
I train on these types and interested in the structural side - they are a good, fail safe design systems aircraft - however structure do have limits.
The Fairchild Swerigen fleet is getting old - provided the maintenance can be kept up they are fine but look at structural life Metro get expensive after 35 000 hours.
If this aircraft was enroute tyres wheel well fires don't just start they are usually associated with hot brakes or major malfunctions.
I train on these types and interested in the structural side - they are a good, fail safe design systems aircraft - however structure do have limits.
The Fairchild Swerigen fleet is getting old - provided the maintenance can be kept up they are fine but look at structural life Metro get expensive after 35 000 hours.
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I once had a problem flying a Jetstream 31 many moons ago. The J31 has engines that are essentially the same as the Metro ones (TPE 331's).
Anyway, the fuel pipe between the fuel pump and the FCU fractured at the union and sprayed fuel all over the hot bit of the engine. Guess what happened next... luckily we were on the ground.
Anyway, the fuel pipe between the fuel pump and the FCU fractured at the union and sprayed fuel all over the hot bit of the engine. Guess what happened next... luckily we were on the ground.
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DH
".........your question sounds like a typical journo trawl (not a criticism, only an observation), because it is impossible to answer, except to say that if there were any "known structural issues" as you say, the aircraft would not be certified to operate."
Before making such a comment, maybe you should have researched these aircraft and the significant maintenance AD's. As KK has said, there is a major spar inspection program for these types.
Sorry to disappoint you, but definitely NOT a journo - been flying heavy aircraft for over 30 years.
Whatever the cause, it is a terrible tragedy.
".........your question sounds like a typical journo trawl (not a criticism, only an observation), because it is impossible to answer, except to say that if there were any "known structural issues" as you say, the aircraft would not be certified to operate."
Before making such a comment, maybe you should have researched these aircraft and the significant maintenance AD's. As KK has said, there is a major spar inspection program for these types.
Sorry to disappoint you, but definitely NOT a journo - been flying heavy aircraft for over 30 years.
Whatever the cause, it is a terrible tragedy.
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My condolences to the families and the Airwork team. This is certainly a terrible tragedy and has a huge impact on not just the aviation industry in NZ.
In times like this we should be factual and only provide correct information when making posts.
The information that CAR256 provided is incorrect. A steady light indicates wheelwell or airconditioning duct overheat situation.
Remember there are two seperate thermal switches or heat sensors in two different locations. Turning the associated bleed air off and lowering the gear is what the AFM prescibes. You should not associate the generator with this particular indication.
The flashing light indicates a wing leading edge bleed air line failure or an overheated generator wire. In this particular situation there is only one heat sensor located close to where the generator cables, other wiring and bleed air lines supplying the ice protection and air con systems are. In this case there is a need to turn off the generator and the bleed air but not lowering the gear. Please refer to AFM 3-14...
A very well known training provider in the Northern hemisphere also recommend to monitor the generator load prior to opening the relay as this could give you a quick indication.
CAR256...if your information was from a company QRH then I would certainly be sending a few tech questions towards your training department!!
My post was to provide correct information and by no means to make an assumption on what caused this terrible accident. I will leave that to the experts that are trained in this area.
Regards to all you Metro drivers down under, hopefully time will tell and we will all be the wiser.
May they R.I.P
In times like this we should be factual and only provide correct information when making posts.
The information that CAR256 provided is incorrect. A steady light indicates wheelwell or airconditioning duct overheat situation.
Remember there are two seperate thermal switches or heat sensors in two different locations. Turning the associated bleed air off and lowering the gear is what the AFM prescibes. You should not associate the generator with this particular indication.
The flashing light indicates a wing leading edge bleed air line failure or an overheated generator wire. In this particular situation there is only one heat sensor located close to where the generator cables, other wiring and bleed air lines supplying the ice protection and air con systems are. In this case there is a need to turn off the generator and the bleed air but not lowering the gear. Please refer to AFM 3-14...
A very well known training provider in the Northern hemisphere also recommend to monitor the generator load prior to opening the relay as this could give you a quick indication.
CAR256...if your information was from a company QRH then I would certainly be sending a few tech questions towards your training department!!
My post was to provide correct information and by no means to make an assumption on what caused this terrible accident. I will leave that to the experts that are trained in this area.
Regards to all you Metro drivers down under, hopefully time will tell and we will all be the wiser.
May they R.I.P
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Thank you "Go you good thing".
I knew and respected the late CPT and am myself an ex Metro 3 / 23 TRI / GI from years past.
He was a level headed and competent operator (TRN CPT and about to be made a TRE/IRE) and Airwork has nice Metro 3/23's.
He was also a family man and a thoroughly decent guy - a rare thing in this game! Please show some respect and leave the guessing to those who get paid for it!
It was refreshing to at last see a post on this sad topic from someone who at least DOES know the type rather than those who don't have a clue but delight in mouthing off and casting aspersions.
Lets let TAIC figure this one out - they have all the pieces, good background data and some good clues. (A rare occurence in air accidents). Shouldn't take too long for the preliminary brief...
RIP Roger
I knew and respected the late CPT and am myself an ex Metro 3 / 23 TRI / GI from years past.
He was a level headed and competent operator (TRN CPT and about to be made a TRE/IRE) and Airwork has nice Metro 3/23's.
He was also a family man and a thoroughly decent guy - a rare thing in this game! Please show some respect and leave the guessing to those who get paid for it!
It was refreshing to at last see a post on this sad topic from someone who at least DOES know the type rather than those who don't have a clue but delight in mouthing off and casting aspersions.
Lets let TAIC figure this one out - they have all the pieces, good background data and some good clues. (A rare occurence in air accidents). Shouldn't take too long for the preliminary brief...
RIP Roger
