Fly in China!
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It doesn't sound too much different to aviation in Awestraylar really, does it, 404 Titan?
After all, if I don't take it someone else will, then I'll be left behind.
The flying can't be that much different to here. After all Boeing makes those things so that just about anyone can fly them after a couple of hours in a simulator - well that's what I've heard.
Besides, to have an airline aoc, the Chinese (or anyone else) has to meet a certain standard of proficiency.
Eimar Moron
After all, if I don't take it someone else will, then I'll be left behind.
The flying can't be that much different to here. After all Boeing makes those things so that just about anyone can fly them after a couple of hours in a simulator - well that's what I've heard.
Besides, to have an airline aoc, the Chinese (or anyone else) has to meet a certain standard of proficiency.
Eimar Moron
Eimar Moron
I get the impression from your posts and personal details that you are a forum troll trying to wind people up.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt for now.
You obviously have a problem comprehending what some of us have been trying to say. It is totally different. To quote Chimbu chuckles:
You then go on to say:
Oh please give me a break. That is the oldest one in the book. How long, if at all, have you been in this industry? Five minutes. Some of us like Chimbu chuckles and myself have done 20 – 25 years. We have learnt from experience that those that are determined and patient will get what they want. Those that are impatient will fall by the wayside. Do your time, get some experience and the world will be your oyster. Asia is going to need so many pilots over the next 10 to 20 years that those airlines that want to survive will have to offer descent wages and conditions to attract the pilots they need. Those that don’t will shrivel and die. It is as simple as that. Don’t undersell yourself. You are worth more than that.
I get the impression from your posts and personal details that you are a forum troll trying to wind people up.
Biography: Ignorant, but supremely confident.
Location: Eimeverywhere.
Interests: Teaching people a thing or two.
Location: Eimeverywhere.
Interests: Teaching people a thing or two.
It doesn't sound too much different to aviation in Awestraylar really, does it, 404 Titan?
You think you have been screwed in GA in OZ/NZ?...you haven't even been fondled inappropriately.
After all, if I don't take it someone else will, then I'll be left behind.
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It's my turn now, 402 Titan - you have had your's (obviously).
This is an opportunity to get some jet command time on a popular aeroplane type.
So what if the job doesn't last, or I can only hack it for a year or so? At least I will have gained enough experience to move up the ladder.
Just because you have been lucky enough to get into a reasonable company, why do you feel I should be denied, now that there are some prospects?
You say don't undersell myself, but how long would you suggest I spend sitting around waiting for the "right" job?
This industry is all about taking the best job as soon as it comes up, or being left behind, even if it means having to "adapt", or putting up with a little less than others, in the beginning.
I have a mortgage and family commitments.
This is an opportunity to get some jet command time on a popular aeroplane type.
So what if the job doesn't last, or I can only hack it for a year or so? At least I will have gained enough experience to move up the ladder.
Just because you have been lucky enough to get into a reasonable company, why do you feel I should be denied, now that there are some prospects?
You say don't undersell myself, but how long would you suggest I spend sitting around waiting for the "right" job?
This industry is all about taking the best job as soon as it comes up, or being left behind, even if it means having to "adapt", or putting up with a little less than others, in the beginning.
I have a mortgage and family commitments.
Eimar Moron
Yup, as I guessed a forum troll. It’s like a broken record listening to the reasons because you aint listening. Mate take the job, I don’t care. All some of us have tried to do is advise wannabes of the dangers in accepting a job like this. If you aren’t going to take the advice of someone who knows what he is talking about, you deserve the outcome. You are your own worst enemy. This discussion is finished.
Yup, as I guessed a forum troll. It’s like a broken record listening to the reasons because you aint listening. Mate take the job, I don’t care. All some of us have tried to do is advise wannabes of the dangers in accepting a job like this. If you aren’t going to take the advice of someone who knows what he is talking about, you deserve the outcome. You are your own worst enemy. This discussion is finished.
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How do you reckon on me as being a "forum troll", 404?
On the one hand a lot of you advocate treating the world as our oyster. Look at how many places Chimbu chuckles has worked in.
But when a job DOES come up, you advise us NOT to take it.
It's not like we'll be taking the job away from you......or is it?
On the one hand a lot of you advocate treating the world as our oyster. Look at how many places Chimbu chuckles has worked in.
But when a job DOES come up, you advise us NOT to take it.
It's not like we'll be taking the job away from you......or is it?
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Chimbu chuckles and 404 Titan:
Do you two happen to know the meaning of " monumental killjoy " ? Elimar Moron would be well adviced to ignore everything you gentlemen have said and do his own thing. It is a well known fact that some expatriates find a lifetime of happiness working in the East and the reason for it is they understand that the journey is more important than the destination. Just because you both screwed it up hardly puts you in a position to try and influence others.
828a
P.S.
Elimar Moron; Igore them but be aware there is lot of these types around. They will never be content or happy where ever they are.
Do you two happen to know the meaning of " monumental killjoy " ? Elimar Moron would be well adviced to ignore everything you gentlemen have said and do his own thing. It is a well known fact that some expatriates find a lifetime of happiness working in the East and the reason for it is they understand that the journey is more important than the destination. Just because you both screwed it up hardly puts you in a position to try and influence others.
828a
P.S.
Elimar Moron; Igore them but be aware there is lot of these types around. They will never be content or happy where ever they are.
Grandpa Aerotart
I never said don't come to Asia...in fact I'd encourage anyone as it's a great place to live and fly,as I said above...I only encouraged caution and a realistic approach.
With some good options in Asia why would you go somewhere like an LCC start up in mainland China.
And what was it I screwed up?
With some good options in Asia why would you go somewhere like an LCC start up in mainland China.
And what was it I screwed up?
828a
Just like Chimbu chuckles, I haven’t told anyone not to come and work in Asia. The flying here is some of the best I have done and I would recommend it to anyone. With so many well paying jobs going in this part of the world, some upstart LCC still think they can take unsuspecting wannabes for a ride. All we are doing is warning people of these sharks. If you and others don’t take our advise fine. We don’t care, for as surely as the sun rises in the east, they will learn the hard way.
Please tell me what I screwed up? I would really like to know. Frankly I wouldn't change anything about the path my career has taken. Aus, PNG and Asia have been very good to me and very rewarding.
Just like Chimbu chuckles, I haven’t told anyone not to come and work in Asia. The flying here is some of the best I have done and I would recommend it to anyone. With so many well paying jobs going in this part of the world, some upstart LCC still think they can take unsuspecting wannabes for a ride. All we are doing is warning people of these sharks. If you and others don’t take our advise fine. We don’t care, for as surely as the sun rises in the east, they will learn the hard way.
Please tell me what I screwed up? I would really like to know. Frankly I wouldn't change anything about the path my career has taken. Aus, PNG and Asia have been very good to me and very rewarding.
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Chimbu chuckles and 404 Titan;
I'm glad we agree that Asia is a great place to live and fly. There is a degree of omnipotence in both your writings and I find statements such as " Chinese sweat shops and half baked mainland LCC start up " as objectional in the extreme. Typical expatriate remarks and you wonder why you are not accepted as the good friend you pretend to be. 404 claims 20 years of all knowing and suggests " get experience " but he does not say how. He must have learned to walk before he could crawl. We all know that it's hard to get a foot on the second rung of the ladder and it is made doubly so if one throws away opportunities because one is advised that boring suburbia is the best place to " get experience "
My advice to any fledgling aviator is to get the hell out of Australia and start living. Now I suppose you will accuse me of omnipotence.
828a.
I'm glad we agree that Asia is a great place to live and fly. There is a degree of omnipotence in both your writings and I find statements such as " Chinese sweat shops and half baked mainland LCC start up " as objectional in the extreme. Typical expatriate remarks and you wonder why you are not accepted as the good friend you pretend to be. 404 claims 20 years of all knowing and suggests " get experience " but he does not say how. He must have learned to walk before he could crawl. We all know that it's hard to get a foot on the second rung of the ladder and it is made doubly so if one throws away opportunities because one is advised that boring suburbia is the best place to " get experience "
My advice to any fledgling aviator is to get the hell out of Australia and start living. Now I suppose you will accuse me of omnipotence.
828a.
828a
Accusing me of claiming total power is a bit rich. I am the last person to lecture to another. I will give advice though if I think it is warranted. Most of my Chinese colleges that I work with would agree 100% with my comments on the behaviour of some of the mainland carriers. It isn’t a secret in this part of the world what goes on in the mainland.
I have never pretended to be anyone’s friend. What you see with me is what you get. Infact I have had more differences of opinion with wannabes on the Fragrant Harbour forum because they don’t like how the Chinese now run Hong Kong compared to the Brits pre 1997. I have lived about a third of my working career as an expat. I am very well aware sir of the sensitivity that living in someone else’s country entails. I am also very aware of the dangers it can bring to the unsuspecting novus.
I have never claimed anything. I have offered advice on something that I know something about. If he doesn’t take my or Chimbu chuckles advice, fine. I don’t really care. Do you think anyone of us had it easy getting up the ladder to where we are now? Most of us have slogged it out the hard way. There isn’t a magic formula for success in this game. What worked for one may not work for another. Taking this job may help him to get up the ladder but at what price to his marriage, his health, his financial wellbeing, i.e. paying off his mortgage in Australia, paying off his loan for his endorsement costs and then trying to live in China, all on the equivalent of AUD$3000.00 a month gross or AUD$36000.00 a year. Don’t forget his wife can’t work in China either. In all my years in GA (14 including training) before getting into the airlines I never intentionally allowed myself to get into such a predicament that I was going backwards financially. I also never put my family second when it came to my career.
Accusing me of claiming total power is a bit rich. I am the last person to lecture to another. I will give advice though if I think it is warranted. Most of my Chinese colleges that I work with would agree 100% with my comments on the behaviour of some of the mainland carriers. It isn’t a secret in this part of the world what goes on in the mainland.
I have never pretended to be anyone’s friend. What you see with me is what you get. Infact I have had more differences of opinion with wannabes on the Fragrant Harbour forum because they don’t like how the Chinese now run Hong Kong compared to the Brits pre 1997. I have lived about a third of my working career as an expat. I am very well aware sir of the sensitivity that living in someone else’s country entails. I am also very aware of the dangers it can bring to the unsuspecting novus.
404 claims 20 years of all knowing and suggests " get experience " but he does not say how. He must have learned to walk before he could crawl. We all know that it's hard to get a foot on the second rung of the ladder and it is made doubly so if one throws away opportunities because one is advised that boring suburbia is the best place to " get experience "
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404 Titan;
There is one thing that I would like you and your pal Chimbu chuckles to take on board and that is that I helped dig the well that you two drink from. I accept that your advice is offered in good faith but you have sullied the waters by failing to understand there is a difference between East and West and that this difference must be accomodated. Strange as it may seem to you it is this very difference that some of us like. The reasons for this are a little to complex to enter into here. [ another day perhaps ] .
828a.
There is one thing that I would like you and your pal Chimbu chuckles to take on board and that is that I helped dig the well that you two drink from. I accept that your advice is offered in good faith but you have sullied the waters by failing to understand there is a difference between East and West and that this difference must be accomodated. Strange as it may seem to you it is this very difference that some of us like. The reasons for this are a little to complex to enter into here. [ another day perhaps ] .
828a.
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Let's cut to the chase. If a GA pilot in Australia has (say) 500 hours total time and a brand new B737 Classic and/or NG type rating from one of the various "providers" Ansett, ETA, Qantas or Alteon then is this sufficient experience to get a job in China? If so, who does he apply to? Forget the hardships described earlier. It sounds no harder than living in a converted shipping container in NT or a caravan at Bamaga and flying a poorly maintained 210.
828a
And for that I can say thank you. Your pioneering legacy is a tribute to you. Respectfully though it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
I am very well aware of the differences between the East and the West. I make allowances for, and embrace them every day. I enjoy these differences and my wife and I immerse ourselves in them as much as we can otherwise we wouldn’t want to live here. My wife and I have travelled extensively over mainland China and enjoy the wide diversity of all the cultures living there. We believe life is meant for living and that is exactly what we are doing. This though is also irrelevant to this discussion. What Chimbu chuckles and I have been trying to say is that if anyone wants to go and work for this company or any other airline in mainland China you need to go in with your eyes wide open. If anyone thinks it will be a walk in the park compared to the places like the NT or Cape York communities think again. I would go as far as saying that even PNG would pale into comparisons with what some may go through trying to live in China on the conditions being offered. And yes I have worked in all these places and experienced exactly the hardships that they all entail. As long as everyone is aware of this and make a very educated discission based on this then fine. Just don’t let the big new shiny jet syndrome cloud a very import and for some, life altering decision they will have to make.
There is one thing that I would like you and your pal Chimbu chuckles to take on board and that is that I helped dig the well that you two drink from.
I accept that your advice is offered in good faith but you have sullied the waters by failing to understand there is a difference between East and West and that this difference must be accomodated. Strange as it may seem to you it is this very difference that some of us like.
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Flew across China a couple of months ago at night. I was surprised at how quite it was. Hardly heard anyone on the radio. I would have thought with a country of so many people it would have been a lot busier. I guess this is a pretty good indication of the room for expansion.
There have been a lot of good comments on this thread, unfortunately for some people either through bad luck, timing or the fact that they just started late it can be extremely hard to get a good well paying job.
404 Titan, I think your last paragraph sums it all up quite nicely. For someone with low experience to age, something like this can certainly change your life...for better or for worse!!! I guess it's all a bit of a gamble. Just remember that when you leave Oz it is very very hard to get back in. Look at how many expats came flooding back home with VB's expansion. Almost all of them left better paying jobs with better conditions to come home. And now that gate has closed.
It's true the thrill of flying a shiny new jet certainly wears off pretty quick if you have to get off it each day and drive home to some sh*thole. It's all about balancing career with lifestyle.
On the other hand it'd be a hell of an adventure, something you'll never experience if you stay in Oz.
I did a similar thing and got opportunities I never would have if I stayed in Oz, and haven't regretted it. Hell why not give it a go, if you look at it purely as an adventure you can't get too disappointed. And then once you've got the time on type you can start being a bit more picky.
There have been a lot of good comments on this thread, unfortunately for some people either through bad luck, timing or the fact that they just started late it can be extremely hard to get a good well paying job.
404 Titan, I think your last paragraph sums it all up quite nicely. For someone with low experience to age, something like this can certainly change your life...for better or for worse!!! I guess it's all a bit of a gamble. Just remember that when you leave Oz it is very very hard to get back in. Look at how many expats came flooding back home with VB's expansion. Almost all of them left better paying jobs with better conditions to come home. And now that gate has closed.
It's true the thrill of flying a shiny new jet certainly wears off pretty quick if you have to get off it each day and drive home to some sh*thole. It's all about balancing career with lifestyle.
On the other hand it'd be a hell of an adventure, something you'll never experience if you stay in Oz.
I did a similar thing and got opportunities I never would have if I stayed in Oz, and haven't regretted it. Hell why not give it a go, if you look at it purely as an adventure you can't get too disappointed. And then once you've got the time on type you can start being a bit more picky.
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Be careful
I had the pleasure of working in China for almost 3 years.
From B738 delivery flights to the GSAs with a few foreign carriers.
I was treated extremely well but others were not so lucky.
Expat wives can work in China if the Foreign Experts mob allow it (My wife as a former purser with another well known Asian carrier was offered a supervisor's position) and many other wives were offered Teaching positions.. Poorly paid by western standards but a real bonus in China (5000-8000RMB/month)
Beware of the red tape that might put a stop to promises of positions above which you now have. FOs been promised commands, Grade one flight Instructors promised FO positions for 3 year's service or GA jocks offered Initial Jet ratings (First time I've seen this in China)
OK Airlines is run by a lot of ex Xin Hua Airline Captains (Hainan group) They did it hard in PEK but at least the cost of living in Tianjin is much less.
Get something in writing but remember if it ever goes to court in China..You will lose.
I hope this helps.
From B738 delivery flights to the GSAs with a few foreign carriers.
I was treated extremely well but others were not so lucky.
Expat wives can work in China if the Foreign Experts mob allow it (My wife as a former purser with another well known Asian carrier was offered a supervisor's position) and many other wives were offered Teaching positions.. Poorly paid by western standards but a real bonus in China (5000-8000RMB/month)
Beware of the red tape that might put a stop to promises of positions above which you now have. FOs been promised commands, Grade one flight Instructors promised FO positions for 3 year's service or GA jocks offered Initial Jet ratings (First time I've seen this in China)
OK Airlines is run by a lot of ex Xin Hua Airline Captains (Hainan group) They did it hard in PEK but at least the cost of living in Tianjin is much less.
Get something in writing but remember if it ever goes to court in China..You will lose.
I hope this helps.
