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Qantas staff low on corporate spirit

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Old 19th Feb 2005, 21:03
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Vortsa...Empty rhetoric

What a broad empty unsubstantiated piece of generalized garbage.Many people stay at their job purely for the wage they receive not because they love their employer.Having a family,a mortgage and a long term financial plan I am not about to jeopardise any of these things because morale at the workplace is low or I think my CEO is a prique.So it is at Qantas.
Perhaps one of the reasons you don`t see crew after the meal service is because you are asleep.The majority of QF`s longhaul sectors have a night component.In my experience pax like to sleep at night.If you provide your name and travel intinerary I will ensure that the crew wake you up and ask if you want anything.You will feel wonderful when you reach your destination knowing you have been well looked after but sleep deprived.
Or perhaps you don`t see the crew because there are simply less of them to see.!!!!

Last edited by DEFCON4; 20th Feb 2005 at 03:45.
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Old 20th Feb 2005, 01:19
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Well it is easy to see where you are employed, ( I am reluctant to say work ), and if I choose to stay awake all night then it is my business, and when I call for an attendant to service my needs on a full service airline I expect to be served.

I pay many thousands of dollars to fly, unlike you I am not an employee of Qantas. The only reason I still fly them is they are an Australian icon, but if that ever changes, Goodbye.

And I never mentioned attrition, hell, where else would you get paid to go on a holiday around the world every other week. And that is all it is for many CabinCrew, there are only a handfull that I have seen over the years that realise that it is work punctuated by relaxation not relaxation interrupted by having to work.

Morale is a state of mind and if you force yourself to go to work then get a job as a waitress, you will still be able to feed your family, but you might have to be home for them as well and not leave them while you gallivant all over the world.

Last edited by vortsa; 20th Feb 2005 at 01:30.
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Old 20th Feb 2005, 01:42
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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My Choice

It is most unfortunate that you continue on in this manner.You cannot possibly have met all longhaul crew (and had them "service your needs")It is also unfortunate that those you have met did not meet your expectations.For this I apologize.
I appreciate my job has its privileges.It also has its downside.I do not like being away from my family 7 months of the year..but it pays the bills and I have built my long term financial goals around my income...like most people.To change this now would be foolish.
I am a self motivated person and don't particularly concern myself with Dixon's ravings but at least allow me to have an opinion.
If you are not happy ...you have the choice of travelling with another carrier...no one forces you to fly QF.
However,I repeat, most of what you have said is unsubstantiated rubbish.

Last edited by DEFCON4; 20th Feb 2005 at 03:46.
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Old 20th Feb 2005, 04:14
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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An interesting topic.... and I must say that there seems to be some validity in Dixon's comments:

"The group that had the lowest opinion of management happens to be the long-haul flight attendants, and when I last looked I can't find when someone resigned," he said.

"I'm really going to talk to my psychiatrist and psychologist about this because what you've got is the group who says they're most dissatisfied are the group that has the lowest attrition rate.
Taking this at face value, why would a group of people so grossly disattisfied with their employment still turn up to work? Surely there are other empoyers who can provide superior conditions of service and work environment. Why continue to work for Qantas?

To borrow from SMP's excellent post:

A generally accepted model these days of appropriate remuneration is 'payment according to earning potential elsewhere'.
I wonder how genuine the grievances of these long haul flight attendants really are? After all, the general theme of the posts on this topic have revolved around scales of remuneration. I can only assume that people perceive themselves as being worth more, I'm just curious as to what standard this belief has been derived from.
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Old 20th Feb 2005, 04:26
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Clarification

The discontent experienced by longhaul crew has little to do with renumeration and a lot to do with being thwarted by their employer in doing their job well.I can now apologize in 12 langauges.
An example..we once carried baby rusks for teething children.I used these as a means of introducing myself to the child's parents and providing a remedy for anticipated crying on decent.They have been removed...cost cutting.I now take my own,although I sometimes fall foul of quarantine in some countries..particularly NZ.
IFE breakdowns.a/c breakdowns...the list goes on.This never used to happen.Write reports about shortages of blankets,milk,wine,splits and nothing happens.It produces frustration at not being able to do your job well.In the end you give up!
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Old 20th Feb 2005, 05:00
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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surfside6

Thanks for the additional detail, it's always nice to see some substance added to these conversations.
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Old 20th Feb 2005, 06:21
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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The whole point of the survey was to measure "engagement" with the business and the direction it is taking.

It is not designed to measure the job satisfaction felt by those surveyed.

Those of us at operational levels in the company have seen SO MANY short term cost saving [ie bonus chasing] measures made that continue to damage the long term reputation of the airline that most of us are completely disgusted and disengaged from those running the business.

Some recent examples from Longhaul cabin services-

1.The forced taking of long service leave by FAs to boost this years bottom line has resulted in Longhaul services leaving Sydney without on board managers and supervisors.Some flights without either.One of these flights it is rumored was operated without the required PAs being carried out. CASA investigating.

2. The London base which impacts our "premier route" will be operating Ex LHR with hundreds of FAs the vast majority of whom have NEVER operated on a 3 class 744.
The training provided these individuals is next to non existent and the individual's familiarity with First and Business class service proceedures and standards is nought.
Cross crewing during the startup with seasoned crew from SYD would avert the coming disaster but would also cost money, so to hell with it...............

Repeated equipement failures, filthy aircraft, lack of food choices for P/C and J/C , non availability of aircaft stock all continue to make what we do on the aircraft more and more difficult.
The vast majority of us continue to do all we can to maintain passenger satisfaction despite the difficulties. The savior for Qantas being that once the doors closes personal pride in what we do means the punters get off happy.
I suspect the b@stards running the company know this, even if they dont care.

So obsessed with profits are QF management that it seems that they have forgotten that they are running an airline who's LONGTERM success requires a balance between profits AND happy people, both passengers and staff.

Operational staff have a LONGTERM stake in the success of Qantas but sadly those running the company do not and none of us are blind to the fact that our reputation as a QUALITY airline is being cynically and systematically sold in exchange for ever increasing executive bonuses.

This is why so few of us [22%] are "engaged" with the direction the "trough feeders" are taking us.
The unproffessional and unnecessary comments made by the pig who runs this company over the weekend just serves to drive more and more of us away.

22% ?..........I dont think so.............

Jettlager
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Old 20th Feb 2005, 06:46
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Surfside 6
IFE breakdowns.a/c breakdowns...the list goes on.This never used to happen.Write reports about shortages of blankets,milk,wine,splits and nothing happens.It produces frustration at not being able to do your job well.In the end you give up!
You wouldn't be short of wine if the cabin crew stopped filling their overnight bags.

Jetlagger
The London base which impacts our "premier route" will be operating Ex LHR with hundreds of FAs the vast majority of whom have NEVER operated on a 3 class 744.
Well they will be right at home then.

Repeated equipement failures, filthy aircraft, lack of food choices for P/C and J/C , non availability of aircaft stock all continue to make what we do on the aircraft more and more difficult.
I have been on some other operators who go through the a/c before landing with large plastic bags and ask for passengers to empty their rubbish. This then allows the cleaners who are working with a very tight schedule to tidy up the a/c more effectively.

The savior for Qantas being that once the doors closes personal pride in what we do means the punters get off happy.
Yes they are very happy to get off.
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Old 20th Feb 2005, 08:36
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Socks. It gives me a remarkable amount of pleasure to tell you that you are a farkwit.
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Old 20th Feb 2005, 11:33
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Jetlagger
excellent post.

The cost cutting is being seen in our department too. rest assured we continue to operate to a standard, if this generates a profit then excellent.

With the CP on a bonus for performance we too suffer the indignity of being told our department is under cost pressure...Imagine a General aviation Chief Pilot telling pilots that the must be ooh so conscious of the impact their decisions have on the profitability of the operation. CASA would not tolerate it...

Our simulator time is being sold to train CX captains, it isnt any longer availoable to the S/O's who go in their own time to try and maintain a standard...

It is in no way ab out profit, it is all about reputation. Something the vast majority of us have always wanted to be part of being destroyed by those with an eye only for themselves. It is really quite sad.
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Old 20th Feb 2005, 19:58
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Argus And Kaptin M. I learned about Narcissistic managers the following way.

I was CEO of a successful company owned by another company. The new CEO of this company started doing some interesting things, like lying to the Board, doing devious political things, only talking to certain "special" people, organising meetings to which I was not invited (called bullying by exclusion), sucking up to politicians and people "above", and generally treating anyone "below" them in the corporate pecking order with contempt. In addition, although the books looked great, they were making dreadful management decsions and hiding the inevitable costs in the books. (These should surface in the press maybe this year, about $250 million worth is my guess)

I was at a dinner party held for a visiting old friend from MBA days who was Vice President of HR of a New York company. I explained this person's somewhat bizarre management style to her and another senior HR person and asked what they thought. They both turned as one to each other and then back to me and chanted as one; "Narcissistic personality disorder, Alistair Mant chapter 2(?)"

I chased up NPD on the web and it fitted this person to a tee. After learning about it I was then able to 'work around" this individual concerned.

I suggest those of you who are interested might look a little closer at NPD and compare the profile with GD and MJ.

The apparent cause of NPD is a complete and total lack of the ability to empathise with people (put themselves in other people's shoes). The coping mechanism for this is to develop an overwhelming sense of superiority often buttressed by hard and very intelligent work out of the desire to achive power and position.

The ruthlessness you think you see Kaptin M, is not really ruthlessness at all. To be ruthless, you actually have to understand the impact of what you are doing to someone and then do it anyway.

A true narcissist just cannot even know or care about the impact of his decisions on "little people" because he cannot empathise. However telling him he is ruthless will simply be viewed as a complement anyway even though he doesn't understand the meaning of the term.


The most dangerous thing about NPD people is that they will do whatever they need to do to maintain their superioriority veneer - both legal and illegal.

The only way you can "get through" to NPD people is to scare them, at which point thir persona will collapse. Best recent example was Rene Rivkin's performance on being sentenced to jail.

I just pray thst GD's legacy isn't a big smoking hole in the ground.

Last edited by Sunfish; 20th Feb 2005 at 20:09.
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Old 20th Feb 2005, 22:15
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Suggestions?

How then, do you scare Dixon?
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Old 22nd Feb 2005, 02:43
  #53 (permalink)  
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Just operated the QF 32 LHR - SIN. Ran out of red wine in economy within 3hrs of take off. Still 9hrs to go, kept the customers happy giving them business and first red wine. Ended up costing QF even more money. Do I care? No, because any profit we make goes into Dixons and Co's pockets. Less we make, worse off they are.
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Old 22nd Feb 2005, 03:46
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You might have found a few more bottles if you had emptied a few overnight bags.
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Old 22nd Feb 2005, 08:55
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Yes socks - there is a bus leaving in 10 minutes.

Be under it.



Now seriously, after discounting the shallow end of the gene pool, it would make more sense to this little black duck to take care of your staff, be they aircrew or ground. I do harp back to years gone by (yet a-bloody-gain) but we adored our airlines, and would walk over broken glass to get an extra passenger or to ensure a good journey for a client.

Can anyone tell me that cutting to the bone on staffing a simple things like properly stocking an aeroplane is not going to be noticed by the general punter? It is - and it is being relayed back to me.

Had a client today on a round world one world explorer business fare who requested his SYD LAX fare was booked on the American side of the code share. I currently would normall do that as the commission is higher if OK with the PSGR, but as this was a high rank QF Club dude, I was going to default to Rat. The gentleman said "I do not like the way they are treating their people, and will not directly support them". After I picked up my chin from the deck, I duly booked AA outbound, SYD LAX PSP LAX SFO then BA to LHR and CX back.

Do not think the punters are unaware of very un-Australian treatment of staff and their futures. They are, and many high spend clients are not happy. The sad bit is that is the staff that this negativity hits first. It will be very interesting to see the cash flow figures QF post for the first quarter of this year. I think there may be a big shock coming.

Let them do their job without trying to undermine them at every opportunity Geoffy boy!

Best all

EWL
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Old 22nd Feb 2005, 13:13
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At least on a bus the entertainment system works.
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Old 22nd Feb 2005, 17:40
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The tragic conundrum, EWL, is that if all of our pax did what yours did, we here at QF would be out of jobs. Would management wake up before it was too late? Maybe, maybe not. More likely theywould blame something else...

EWL, have you thought about a short email to [email protected] expressing your clients views? Every little bit helps....

Trouble is, for the most part we love our job. We wouldn't give it up for the world. Hence the low attrition rate. And for the most part our people do an excellent job without the resources that they need.

Dixon is an evil little turd who is hell bent on destroying an icon and greedily taking as much as he can at the same time. It disgusts me.
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Old 22nd Feb 2005, 19:31
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The majority of the inmates in a prison would cut the throat of the Warden given half a chance, but he has a job to do.

The players on a football team after a gruelling session of practice would love to charge the coach and knock him down, but he must push them hard, and they know that, and all want to be part of that team.

The Captain on the bridge of an ocean liner does not sail as close to an iceberge as you would like but with the help of radar he sees beneath the water and must steer a wide arc.

Traffic lights are put on roads to make the traffic flow freely but you wonder why they always turn red for you.


The airtraffic controller always keeps you waiting the longest for departure but you can't all be first.

Mum and Dad would never allow you to eat as much ice cream as you wanted, they new you would get a tummy ache and they were trying to keep you from the pain.

God always makes it rain when you plan a Bar-B-Q but we need the water.

The shepherd leads his flock to the market to be slaughtered, it sounds cruel but there is a bigger picture.

So please understand that God has a greater plan, and you may want to cut his throat, knock him down, know what direction he is taking us and get that green light to be first or even stock your galley with more icecream. But he is God and he can rain on your parade and ultimately cut your throat when he decides.
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Old 22nd Feb 2005, 19:50
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Devil

The only bigger plan Dixon has for QANTAS, imho, is to continue unimaginatively slashing away directly at staff levels and incomes to qualify for His performance bonus.

You might see Him as GOD, socks, but I get the feeling that most people - including non-QF employees - are seeing him for the greedy little Devil he really is!
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Old 22nd Feb 2005, 21:47
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Socks I'm afraid you subscribe to the idea that a CEO is god. Geoff Dixon obviously agrees with you.

However I have some news for you. The theory is demonstrably wrong as indicated by the spectacular failures of companies managed by the people who subscribe to it.

I suspect having never worked as a CEO working to a Board of Directors Socks, you just wouldn't know.

The decisions the CEO makes normally take about three to five years to affect the business - that is, to make a real positive impact on profitablity. Sure a CEO can pressure people to "window dress" the accounts to make short term impact, but that is not the same thing.

The sad part is that a CEO can make an immediate NEGATIVE impact on profitability by p!ssing off front line staff.

It works like this Socks. The power and time horizon of employees (including Dixon) are inversely linked.

ie: One junior FA can immediately and instantaneaously either make or mar a passengers experience of a trip. And she or he can do it in a few seconds.

A pilot can do the same for a planeload of passengers, but the time horizon is the length of the trip.

Moving up the chain, the Marketing Manager can influence cutomer numbers, but his time horizon is about a year from conception of a marketing plan to its execution..

Same with LAME's and so on.

So Dixon's stupid forays into day to day operations are not only futile but a waste of his time.

Furthermore, on the matter of bonuses. Ah Yes! bonuses. It is now best practice in the U.S.A. to perform an audit of a company, including an audit of corporate culture, capability, market perceptions market share etc. before the arrival of a CEO. The audit is repeated when he leaves.

The bonus he receives is adjusted up or down based on the results of the audit.

This is to stop the practice (which allegedly Dixon is engaged in) of gutting a corporation to produce a huge bonus, then running away from the smoking ruin clutching a big bag of cash.

Of course I don't expect the Board of QF is either aware of international best practice, nor interested in performing such an audit - the engagement survey has already told them what they would find. As I said before, the results of that survey will be suppressed.
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