NJS Preferred Bidder
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Hugh you got it in one...Hypocrite he is.
Just watch the warm and fuzzy variant as the "disengagement " survey numbers become known...I wonder what the recurrent theme is???
Funnily enough dont let the Dame and son of kerry and the rest of the goons escape the wrath..They are the board GD an instrument, but I'm led to believe the staff engagement survey result are scathing of management. Geez southcorp wines did real well under the sturdy directorship of the Dame didn't it
Just watch the warm and fuzzy variant as the "disengagement " survey numbers become known...I wonder what the recurrent theme is???
Funnily enough dont let the Dame and son of kerry and the rest of the goons escape the wrath..They are the board GD an instrument, but I'm led to believe the staff engagement survey result are scathing of management. Geez southcorp wines did real well under the sturdy directorship of the Dame didn't it
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Qantaslink deal saves 400 jobs
Sat "Weekend Australian"
Qantaslink deal saves 400 jobs
By Steve Creedy
12feb05
UP to 400 jobs at Adelaide's National Jet Systems are safe after Australia's biggest aviation services contractor beat Jetstar for a contract to operate and maintain a fleet of eight Boeing 717s for Qantaslink.
NJS management and staff were celebrating yesterday after the company was named the preferred bidder to operate the 115-seat passenger jets on Qantaslink regional routes in Western Australia, the Northern Territory and northern Queensland currently serviced by smaller BAe 146 aircraft.
It is understood that pilots at NJS offered pay, productivity and training concessions to help win the contract.
"It really is a very wonderful day," said NJS managing director Daniela Marsilli, who confirmed that losing the contract would have caused job losses in four states.
"It was always going to be a huge loss for National Jet, but I think with this decision it's a win-win."
The Boeing 717s will be transferred to NJS from Jetstar from July as they are replaced by the bigger A320s. NJS will continue to fly two BAe146s for Qantaslink and will continue to use the aircraft to service its resources sector and freight contracts.
A decision in favour of Jetstar would have savagely curtailed a 14-year relationship between Qantas and NJS, which operates the BAe146s scheduled to be replaced by the 717s.
Qantas chief Geoff Dixon acknowledged yesterday that this was a factor in the Qantas decision, which he said was still subject to an operating agreement being negotiated.
The announcement coincided with confirmation yesterday that the future of Jetstar maintenance operations in Newcastle, where the 717s are serviced, was also assured.
Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce announced that the airline would spend $29 million on an expanded heavy maintenance base at Newcastle Airport. Backed by a NSW government support package, Newcastle won against bids from New Zealand, Singapore and Australia.
Mr Joyce said the win would mean about an extra 50 skilled jobs at the base, and more if the airline went beyond its target of 23 aircraft.
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Qantaslink deal saves 400 jobs
By Steve Creedy
12feb05
UP to 400 jobs at Adelaide's National Jet Systems are safe after Australia's biggest aviation services contractor beat Jetstar for a contract to operate and maintain a fleet of eight Boeing 717s for Qantaslink.
NJS management and staff were celebrating yesterday after the company was named the preferred bidder to operate the 115-seat passenger jets on Qantaslink regional routes in Western Australia, the Northern Territory and northern Queensland currently serviced by smaller BAe 146 aircraft.
It is understood that pilots at NJS offered pay, productivity and training concessions to help win the contract.
"It really is a very wonderful day," said NJS managing director Daniela Marsilli, who confirmed that losing the contract would have caused job losses in four states.
"It was always going to be a huge loss for National Jet, but I think with this decision it's a win-win."
The Boeing 717s will be transferred to NJS from Jetstar from July as they are replaced by the bigger A320s. NJS will continue to fly two BAe146s for Qantaslink and will continue to use the aircraft to service its resources sector and freight contracts.
A decision in favour of Jetstar would have savagely curtailed a 14-year relationship between Qantas and NJS, which operates the BAe146s scheduled to be replaced by the 717s.
Qantas chief Geoff Dixon acknowledged yesterday that this was a factor in the Qantas decision, which he said was still subject to an operating agreement being negotiated.
The announcement coincided with confirmation yesterday that the future of Jetstar maintenance operations in Newcastle, where the 717s are serviced, was also assured.
Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce announced that the airline would spend $29 million on an expanded heavy maintenance base at Newcastle Airport. Backed by a NSW government support package, Newcastle won against bids from New Zealand, Singapore and Australia.
Mr Joyce said the win would mean about an extra 50 skilled jobs at the base, and more if the airline went beyond its target of 23 aircraft.
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Join Date: Oct 1999
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God Trumps Again!!
God has come up trumps again. NJS was always going to get the gig. But why not mention the tender process again and put the thought of job lossess on the table to get new contracts at reduced rates. Saw it happen between Impulse and a supposedly Greenfields operation when J* was touted. The next one will be expanded international ops. Guess what's up for tender between J* and Australian. Australian will get the gig but not before they have to shave some more from the pointy end to compete for the job they are currently doing now. The sooner god gives up the ghost the better for the anybody working in aviation in Australia.
My 2 bobbs worth.
My 2 bobbs worth.
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So let me get this right.....NJS pilots have officallly become the FIRST pilots IN THE WORLD of any airline to accept (and vote for!) the fact they have to pay for an upgrade to another A/C type even though they are already employed!!!!!! (As far as I know they are no others) What an absoulte disgrace you all are!!!!People like you are what continually bring the industry in Australia to its knees. I hope it bites you all in the A!s, in two years when the contracts are renewed. You may have won the contract because of it but in the end your short sightedness has done nothing except weaken your position and that of every other airline professional in this country and perhaps the world when it comes to next negotiating. Believed the managements bluff hey? !!!!!! What a sad sad day in aviation.
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PureRisk, I couldn't agree with you more. See my post on B717 endorsement. Just another gutless display on behalf of PROFESSIONAL pilots in this country. What a disgrace!!!!!!
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Tossers, losers, call us whatever you like. In case you hadn't noticed we don't have another half dozen companies to choose from, and it's important to some of us to stay employed, on jets, in Australia (and save a thousand jobs). Nobody wanted this, but it looked like we weren't going to get the contract. 1% less in my pay packet doesn't compare with not having a job next year.
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You guys are spot on!
The alternative would have been much better. Let J* get the contract, then either go on the dole (wife & kids in school very impressed), or possibly get a start with J* (if you get through all the hoops) pay for the rating, and start at the bottom of the list again, on much less money. Most of the older pilot's would give it away before going down this road.
Now I dont work for either company, but I can imagine the position the pilots (probably not only the pilots) have been placed in by THE COMPANY and QANTAS. Definately a big gun against their heads.
It's very easy to look down at a group already on a less attractive conditions than you are, and say "Tossers" etc etc,
but to be put in the same position would be distressing, and you would most likely do exactly as the NJS guys/girls have done. (if your honest enough with yourself)
I know what sort of response this opinion will bring, it's the nature of this Forum - and a handfull of regulars.
My two bobs worth.
The alternative would have been much better. Let J* get the contract, then either go on the dole (wife & kids in school very impressed), or possibly get a start with J* (if you get through all the hoops) pay for the rating, and start at the bottom of the list again, on much less money. Most of the older pilot's would give it away before going down this road.
Now I dont work for either company, but I can imagine the position the pilots (probably not only the pilots) have been placed in by THE COMPANY and QANTAS. Definately a big gun against their heads.
It's very easy to look down at a group already on a less attractive conditions than you are, and say "Tossers" etc etc,
but to be put in the same position would be distressing, and you would most likely do exactly as the NJS guys/girls have done. (if your honest enough with yourself)
I know what sort of response this opinion will bring, it's the nature of this Forum - and a handfull of regulars.
My two bobs worth.
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Oh wow, Purerisk and Normasar, what manly, macho, hairy chested and tough hombres you both are.
We haven't seen such "big swinging d**cked" manly types with huge hairy cohonas as you guys since 1989. Alas, all of those he-man types have for some reason not been seen since.
Really, does it take a lot of practice to get your head so far up your fundamental, or is it just a genetic gift that you guys were lucky enough to be born with?
We haven't seen such "big swinging d**cked" manly types with huge hairy cohonas as you guys since 1989. Alas, all of those he-man types have for some reason not been seen since.
Really, does it take a lot of practice to get your head so far up your fundamental, or is it just a genetic gift that you guys were lucky enough to be born with?
Bottums Up
Purerisk and Normasar
Please do let us know when you need our support in the future when you're caught between a rock and a hard place, re pay and conditions.
Speaking only for myself the conditions accepted, whilst unpalatable were easy to accept for the following reasons:
I refute your suggestions that I am puting pressure on your wages and conditions. If you're not getting what you're prepared to accept, quit or go on strike to get more! Simple, isn't it?
Please do let us know when you need our support in the future when you're caught between a rock and a hard place, re pay and conditions.
Speaking only for myself the conditions accepted, whilst unpalatable were easy to accept for the following reasons:
- The other option was probably a choice between downgrade to F/O and move across the country at considerable financial cost, not to mention the disruption to my wife's career; or retrenchment.
- The sure knowledge that no one in the industry would offer any solidarity and that had the pilot group said no, either, the work would have gone elsewhere, or some one who was prepared to pay would have moved in and filled the position, probably before my pigeon hole was empty.
I refute your suggestions that I am puting pressure on your wages and conditions. If you're not getting what you're prepared to accept, quit or go on strike to get more! Simple, isn't it?
Join Date: Jan 1998
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Clarrie an eloquent post as usual.
Is it possible for someone to post the conditions that go along with the new type for NJS? At least then the facts could be discussed rather than idle gossip being perpetuated, culminating in blood letting!
Surely, if it is 'just' 1% less [of the gross pay per annum - my assumption = approx $90/month loss as distinct from $110k/year loss] it is sound and reasonable logic if it means maintaining employment and lets think outside of our own grid square here for a minute, it wouldn't have just been pilots down at the local soup kitchen - there would have been flow on unemployment in a myriad of other areas as well.
When it is said and done, what makes aviation different from any other industry in this country when it comes to viability? How many times have you heard where employees have done the right thing to ensure that their employer can maintain a presence within that sphere, thereby keeping their job even if it is with a reduced pay?
Good on you NJS staff for showing the strength of character to support your management to capture this deal.
I'll bet there was a lot of sleep lost by all concerned whilst this was going on ...
Is it possible for someone to post the conditions that go along with the new type for NJS? At least then the facts could be discussed rather than idle gossip being perpetuated, culminating in blood letting!
Surely, if it is 'just' 1% less [of the gross pay per annum - my assumption = approx $90/month loss as distinct from $110k/year loss] it is sound and reasonable logic if it means maintaining employment and lets think outside of our own grid square here for a minute, it wouldn't have just been pilots down at the local soup kitchen - there would have been flow on unemployment in a myriad of other areas as well.
When it is said and done, what makes aviation different from any other industry in this country when it comes to viability? How many times have you heard where employees have done the right thing to ensure that their employer can maintain a presence within that sphere, thereby keeping their job even if it is with a reduced pay?
Good on you NJS staff for showing the strength of character to support your management to capture this deal.
I'll bet there was a lot of sleep lost by all concerned whilst this was going on ...
Bottums Up
G'day Voice,
Me thinks that the actual conditions agreed to would be considered at this stage to be commercial in confidence. I don't think "Rapunzel" or GoD would take too kindly to disemmination before it becomes public information (published AWA or similar).
Your assessment is quite insightful.
Me thinks that the actual conditions agreed to would be considered at this stage to be commercial in confidence. I don't think "Rapunzel" or GoD would take too kindly to disemmination before it becomes public information (published AWA or similar).
Your assessment is quite insightful.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Scumjet77 people of your ilk are the sought that lower conditions for everyone. You don't know my background so don't sit there and tell me how to suck eggs you plonker!!!!!!!!!!
Let me guess you were one of those PROFESSIONALS who would fly the charter for FREE just to get your hours up.
All I am saying is that until we all stand up and say enough is enough, then we will continue to get screwed by everyone you narrow minded little fool.
Let me guess you were one of those PROFESSIONALS who would fly the charter for FREE just to get your hours up.
All I am saying is that until we all stand up and say enough is enough, then we will continue to get screwed by everyone you narrow minded little fool.
Bottums Up
and the chance of people standing united Normasars, when you refer to them as "plonkers" and "narrow minded little fool" is probably less than zilch.
From your tone I wouldn't stand with you because my assessment is that you'd break and leave me carrying the can while you looked after yourself.
From your tone I wouldn't stand with you because my assessment is that you'd break and leave me carrying the can while you looked after yourself.
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The bar was set pretty low before the NJS boys and girls were forced to waddle under it.
It's a bit rich to criticise them for doing what everyone else before them has done...look after no1.
Just look at our industry.....
It's a bit rich to criticise them for doing what everyone else before them has done...look after no1.
Just look at our industry.....
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I would'nt worry about normal sores and pure cyst if I were you guys.
As Sonny said, the bar was lowered a long time ago ( 15 1/2 years from memory ).
they are probably either sc@bs or have 1000 hrs on flight sim '98.
You were backed into a corner by those
and took the only path that anyone with half a brain would have taken.
Standing united is a pipe dream that became a nightmare back in '89.
Congrats to the guys and gals of NJS, now that you have the 717s, maybe its time to apply a little pressure yourselves
You will enjoy flying the diesel 9, almost as much as sores and cyst will enjoy flight sim 2004 when they can talk their dad into buying it.
As Sonny said, the bar was lowered a long time ago ( 15 1/2 years from memory ).
they are probably either sc@bs or have 1000 hrs on flight sim '98.
You were backed into a corner by those
and took the only path that anyone with half a brain would have taken.Standing united is a pipe dream that became a nightmare back in '89.
Congrats to the guys and gals of NJS, now that you have the 717s, maybe its time to apply a little pressure yourselves
You will enjoy flying the diesel 9, almost as much as sores and cyst will enjoy flight sim 2004 when they can talk their dad into buying it.
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Try and justify selling out all you want ladies but the facts are in Australian Aviation these days you have to sell your soul to management to have the" privlidge of being employed".
Bunch of spineless aviation tossers down in that "Great Southern Land".
It all started with that GA operator with jets.
No sympathy from where we stand. Enjoy the 717 endorsement, after all, you and your families paid for it
What a spiralling situation you and so many have created for yourselves.
Bunch of spineless aviation tossers down in that "Great Southern Land".
It all started with that GA operator with jets.
No sympathy from where we stand. Enjoy the 717 endorsement, after all, you and your families paid for it
What a spiralling situation you and so many have created for yourselves.
Last edited by Iakklat; 12th Feb 2005 at 05:56.
Iakklat,
Considering your fairly harsh criticism of what appears to have gone on at NJS re pay and conditions, perhaps you could enlighten the forum exactly where you do stand. It may help us better understand your attitude.
I assume that you have actually successfully executed the course of action that you are suggesting should have been taken by the NJS pilots? If so, how about some details?
No sympathy from where we stand.
I assume that you have actually successfully executed the course of action that you are suggesting should have been taken by the NJS pilots? If so, how about some details?
Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 12th Feb 2005 at 07:20.