Singapore could call Qantas its own
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Singapore could call Qantas its own
Sun "The Sun-Herald"
Singapore could call Qantas its own
By Phillip Hudson
February 6, 2005
The Sun-Herald
Air fares to the United States could tumble under a secret proposal to allow Qantas to increase its level of foreign ownership and give its rival Singapore Airlines greater access to Australia.
The move to allow Singapore Airlines to carry passengers on Qantas's highly profitable route to the US would signal a dramatic shift in Australia's aviation market and could lead to a price war between airlines.
At least four Federal Government ministers are pressing the case for Singapore Airlines, saying that tourism and business are suffering because of a lack of competition and available flights on the Pacific route.
Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane, Tourism Minister Fran Bailey, Foreign Affairs Minister Alexander Downer and Trade Minister Mark Vaile are among those who are sympathetic to removing restrictions for Singapore Airlines.
Transport Minister John Anderson previously blocked moves by Singapore Airlines, saying the industry was too volatile after the New York and Bali terrorist attacks and the Iraq war. His spokesman said yesterday Mr Anderson had an open mind on the issue.
Only Qantas and United Airlines provide a regular service from Australia to the US. The ministers say there are not enough flights or seats, especially after the signing of the Free Trade Agreement with the US.
Despite Qantas being the most profitable airline in the world, the ministers also want to make sure it does not face unfair competition. One option is to make regulatory concessions and ease the 49 per cent cap on foreign ownership so it can get access to foreign capital. But this could be politically dangerous. Kim Beazley, when finance minister, set the limit to stop Qantas from becoming foreign owned.
Cabinet previously rejected a proposal to change foreign ownership rules because some ministers feared that, unless there was bipartisan support, the public would not believe the Government's promise to restrict foreign ownership on the Telstra sale.
Singapore's Prime Minister, Lee Hsien Loong, last week raised the issue of greater access during a meeting with Prime Minister John Howard.
Qantas chief Geoff Dixon is using his influence in government circles to stop the proposal.
Mr Anderson will meet Singapore's Transport Minister Yeo Cheow Tong on February 14 to discuss the issue.
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Singapore could call Qantas its own
By Phillip Hudson
February 6, 2005
The Sun-Herald
Air fares to the United States could tumble under a secret proposal to allow Qantas to increase its level of foreign ownership and give its rival Singapore Airlines greater access to Australia.
The move to allow Singapore Airlines to carry passengers on Qantas's highly profitable route to the US would signal a dramatic shift in Australia's aviation market and could lead to a price war between airlines.
At least four Federal Government ministers are pressing the case for Singapore Airlines, saying that tourism and business are suffering because of a lack of competition and available flights on the Pacific route.
Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane, Tourism Minister Fran Bailey, Foreign Affairs Minister Alexander Downer and Trade Minister Mark Vaile are among those who are sympathetic to removing restrictions for Singapore Airlines.
Transport Minister John Anderson previously blocked moves by Singapore Airlines, saying the industry was too volatile after the New York and Bali terrorist attacks and the Iraq war. His spokesman said yesterday Mr Anderson had an open mind on the issue.
Only Qantas and United Airlines provide a regular service from Australia to the US. The ministers say there are not enough flights or seats, especially after the signing of the Free Trade Agreement with the US.
Despite Qantas being the most profitable airline in the world, the ministers also want to make sure it does not face unfair competition. One option is to make regulatory concessions and ease the 49 per cent cap on foreign ownership so it can get access to foreign capital. But this could be politically dangerous. Kim Beazley, when finance minister, set the limit to stop Qantas from becoming foreign owned.
Cabinet previously rejected a proposal to change foreign ownership rules because some ministers feared that, unless there was bipartisan support, the public would not believe the Government's promise to restrict foreign ownership on the Telstra sale.
Singapore's Prime Minister, Lee Hsien Loong, last week raised the issue of greater access during a meeting with Prime Minister John Howard.
Qantas chief Geoff Dixon is using his influence in government circles to stop the proposal.
Mr Anderson will meet Singapore's Transport Minister Yeo Cheow Tong on February 14 to discuss the issue.
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Singapore might not call Qantas its own but Qantas might call Singapore Home, very soon.
It is being whispered that Qantas have signed an agreement to send 747-400 heavy maint. to SASCO in the very near future.
This can only be good for Australian Engineering and will keep them in a job fixing up all the stuff ups left after these budget overhauls.
It is being whispered that Qantas have signed an agreement to send 747-400 heavy maint. to SASCO in the very near future.
This can only be good for Australian Engineering and will keep them in a job fixing up all the stuff ups left after these budget overhauls.
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Having seen SASCOs workmanship first hand, straight after a service, I can only say I feel sorry for the travelling public.
With the amout of things broken after the service, it is the first time I have only thought we would spear off the runway on takeoff or have a significantly greater chance of major malfunction.
It was not good.
With the amout of things broken after the service, it is the first time I have only thought we would spear off the runway on takeoff or have a significantly greater chance of major malfunction.
It was not good.
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From my experience with SASCO, it should about double the cost of a D/E Check. This would be hidden, of course, because it would end up in the Line Maint. budget, not Heavy.
When will they ever learn? [good name for a song that]
Cheers
This thought bought to you by the same investigative group who looking at leasing SIA B744's, only to find they were P&W powered; about 3,000+ QF employees could have told them that before they even left Oz shores.
When will they ever learn? [good name for a song that]
Cheers
This thought bought to you by the same investigative group who looking at leasing SIA B744's, only to find they were P&W powered; about 3,000+ QF employees could have told them that before they even left Oz shores.
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What gives SIA the right to be at the front of the queue for new OZ-USA services anyway ?
Why could it not be Emirates, Thai, Malaysian or even VIRGIN PACIFIC ?
The "Minister for Qantas" Mr A strikes again ! Geez Dixons got him wrapped around his finger.....
Why could it not be Emirates, Thai, Malaysian or even VIRGIN PACIFIC ?
The "Minister for Qantas" Mr A strikes again ! Geez Dixons got him wrapped around his finger.....
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jetblues - exactly!
The reality is SQ is looking to the future when the need for aircraft to stopover in SIN may well be greatly diminished and hence SQ's relevance will be diminished. It needs to branch out and establish new routes, now. And it is targetting the perceived easy pickings, such as Australia.
Well, if it happens, I fully expect QF will get 5th Freedom rights on sectors such as SIN-HKG, SIN-SHA, SIN-NRT or even SIN-DXB, yes? That'd be only fair and open, yes? QF could certainly make a buck or two... at SQ's expense!
Incidentally, what have the Americans, especially Untied, got to say about SQ moving onto the US-Aus route?
The reality is SQ is looking to the future when the need for aircraft to stopover in SIN may well be greatly diminished and hence SQ's relevance will be diminished. It needs to branch out and establish new routes, now. And it is targetting the perceived easy pickings, such as Australia.
Well, if it happens, I fully expect QF will get 5th Freedom rights on sectors such as SIN-HKG, SIN-SHA, SIN-NRT or even SIN-DXB, yes? That'd be only fair and open, yes? QF could certainly make a buck or two... at SQ's expense!
Incidentally, what have the Americans, especially Untied, got to say about SQ moving onto the US-Aus route?
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crikey.com.au
More Qantas spin on foreign ownership
By Pemberton Strong
06 February 2005
The Australian Financial Review, the Packer Media empire, Federal Transport Minister John Anderson, not to mention commentators in and around the media and business, have been enlisted in the various campaigns over the past couple of years to attack Virgin Blue, the unions, Singapore Airlines and anyone who takes a view contrary to the prevailing Qantas view of the world.
Currently all stops are out to try and defeat Singapore Airlines’ attempts to gain a share of the lucrative Australia-US route. Domestically Qantas has nothing to worry about. That arch duopolist, Chris Corrigan, is doing his bit to reduce competitive pressures by launching a bid for control of Virgin Blue and neutralise the Virgin Blue management and its CEO, Brett Godfrey.
Now, in the Fairfax Sunday papers today, news of a new tack from Qantas to try and stop Singapore Airlines, with Qantas' most important policy objective thrown in for good measure as a bonus.
The story fails to recognise what Qantas is on about and its true objective. The airline spent most of 2003 and early 2004 trying to get the Federal Government to relax or lift the limit of 49.9% on foreign shareholdings.
It is the one change that the Qantas board really wants because it claims it could gain much needed flexibility.
Flexibility for what given that Qantas is one of the world's most profitable and efficient full service airlines, despite being at the bottom of the world and operating a point to point business and not a hub and spoke model with its supposed greater efficiencies.
The hand of Qantas lobbying chief, David Hawes is behind this story and the mention of Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, Trade Minister Mark Vaille, Industry Ian Minister Macfarlane and Tourism Minister Fran Bailey.
The clue is in the linking of the worries about not giving Singapore enough access to the Qantas foreign shareholding limit.
The two issues are separate and not linked. Perhaps the quartet of ministers and John Anderson have forgotten this quote from Federal Treasurer Peter Costello last year on this very issue.
"Well, Qantas at the moment, ever since it was privatised from being a Government -owned airline has had a restriction on foreign shareholding. That is, it has to have a majority Australian shareholding. And Qantas wanted that restriction lifted so that it could become a foreign-owned airline. The Government had a look at that yesterday. We discussed it. We didn't think that the case had been made out. Qantas is an Australian icon, it has always had a majority ownership from Australia. We thought it was right that that continue. And we weren't convinced that there was an economic case that said Qantas couldn't be a successful airline while still retaining majority Australian ownership. And that is why we decided not to change things."
Check out the full interview transcript here.
Quite strong, and seeing the Treasurer is the key minister on these matters, especially the relevant act (as he is on all foreign investment matters) do you think there'd be a change. And would Prime Minister Howard risk trying to stick it up his Treasurer and Deputy on an issue like this when the more important issue of whether to greenlight the Xstrata bid for WMC Resources is around the corner?
Nice try Qantas, Dave Hawes and others. You’ll try anything to limit competition, from anywhere!
=======================================
More Qantas spin on foreign ownership
By Pemberton Strong
06 February 2005
The Australian Financial Review, the Packer Media empire, Federal Transport Minister John Anderson, not to mention commentators in and around the media and business, have been enlisted in the various campaigns over the past couple of years to attack Virgin Blue, the unions, Singapore Airlines and anyone who takes a view contrary to the prevailing Qantas view of the world.
Currently all stops are out to try and defeat Singapore Airlines’ attempts to gain a share of the lucrative Australia-US route. Domestically Qantas has nothing to worry about. That arch duopolist, Chris Corrigan, is doing his bit to reduce competitive pressures by launching a bid for control of Virgin Blue and neutralise the Virgin Blue management and its CEO, Brett Godfrey.
Now, in the Fairfax Sunday papers today, news of a new tack from Qantas to try and stop Singapore Airlines, with Qantas' most important policy objective thrown in for good measure as a bonus.
The story fails to recognise what Qantas is on about and its true objective. The airline spent most of 2003 and early 2004 trying to get the Federal Government to relax or lift the limit of 49.9% on foreign shareholdings.
It is the one change that the Qantas board really wants because it claims it could gain much needed flexibility.
Flexibility for what given that Qantas is one of the world's most profitable and efficient full service airlines, despite being at the bottom of the world and operating a point to point business and not a hub and spoke model with its supposed greater efficiencies.
The hand of Qantas lobbying chief, David Hawes is behind this story and the mention of Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, Trade Minister Mark Vaille, Industry Ian Minister Macfarlane and Tourism Minister Fran Bailey.
The clue is in the linking of the worries about not giving Singapore enough access to the Qantas foreign shareholding limit.
The two issues are separate and not linked. Perhaps the quartet of ministers and John Anderson have forgotten this quote from Federal Treasurer Peter Costello last year on this very issue.
"Well, Qantas at the moment, ever since it was privatised from being a Government -owned airline has had a restriction on foreign shareholding. That is, it has to have a majority Australian shareholding. And Qantas wanted that restriction lifted so that it could become a foreign-owned airline. The Government had a look at that yesterday. We discussed it. We didn't think that the case had been made out. Qantas is an Australian icon, it has always had a majority ownership from Australia. We thought it was right that that continue. And we weren't convinced that there was an economic case that said Qantas couldn't be a successful airline while still retaining majority Australian ownership. And that is why we decided not to change things."
Check out the full interview transcript here.
Quite strong, and seeing the Treasurer is the key minister on these matters, especially the relevant act (as he is on all foreign investment matters) do you think there'd be a change. And would Prime Minister Howard risk trying to stick it up his Treasurer and Deputy on an issue like this when the more important issue of whether to greenlight the Xstrata bid for WMC Resources is around the corner?
Nice try Qantas, Dave Hawes and others. You’ll try anything to limit competition, from anywhere!
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Ron and Edna -
Over the last 5 or so years QF has axed a number of intra-Asian routes where they had full fifth freedom rights. The most recent being SIN-CGK, SIN-HKG, SIN-DPS. Others include SIN-KUL, SIN-BKK, and BKK-HKG.
With their cost structure they are very hard to make money on.
Over the last 5 or so years QF has axed a number of intra-Asian routes where they had full fifth freedom rights. The most recent being SIN-CGK, SIN-HKG, SIN-DPS. Others include SIN-KUL, SIN-BKK, and BKK-HKG.
With their cost structure they are very hard to make money on.
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Hi Ditzy.
I didn't realise that Jetstar Aust flight atts had access to the cost / yield data for intra asian destinations. I would be grateful if you could e-mail them, or post them here for consideration by PPrune members.
Or could it be that you have fallen for the company propaganda line about mainline legacy cost structures. Have a look at recent posts by QFInsider to find out whats really happening with mainline subsidys of JQ, AO and JQ Asia.
Have you operated on any of these routes ???? No I didn't think so.
Have you spoken to the manager, Singapore about these routes ?.. Once again I didn't think so.
Wake up and smell the coffee, my friend. We are all getting screwed.
I didn't realise that Jetstar Aust flight atts had access to the cost / yield data for intra asian destinations. I would be grateful if you could e-mail them, or post them here for consideration by PPrune members.
Or could it be that you have fallen for the company propaganda line about mainline legacy cost structures. Have a look at recent posts by QFInsider to find out whats really happening with mainline subsidys of JQ, AO and JQ Asia.
Have you operated on any of these routes ???? No I didn't think so.
Have you spoken to the manager, Singapore about these routes ?.. Once again I didn't think so.
Wake up and smell the coffee, my friend. We are all getting screwed.
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No,
we are are not all being screwed.
If this mob and JQ Asia strart operating over routes previously operated by QF then it is important that every QF MAINLINE pilot makes it known to potential passengers that the Pilots FLYING THE AEROPLANE ARE NOT QANTAS PILOTS! THEY HAVE NEVER PASSED A QANTAS COMMAND COURSE AND HAVE NEVER PASSED A QANTAS INDUCTION COURSE.
For the travelling public, these are the bottom dwellers of Australian Aviation. They have never been accepted by a Mainline carrier until Dixon decided to set up an Airline around them. If you think you have QANTAS Pilots at the helm, think again!
God help the public. You are the weakest link. Goodbye!!!!!!!!!
we are are not all being screwed.
If this mob and JQ Asia strart operating over routes previously operated by QF then it is important that every QF MAINLINE pilot makes it known to potential passengers that the Pilots FLYING THE AEROPLANE ARE NOT QANTAS PILOTS! THEY HAVE NEVER PASSED A QANTAS COMMAND COURSE AND HAVE NEVER PASSED A QANTAS INDUCTION COURSE.
For the travelling public, these are the bottom dwellers of Australian Aviation. They have never been accepted by a Mainline carrier until Dixon decided to set up an Airline around them. If you think you have QANTAS Pilots at the helm, think again!
God help the public. You are the weakest link. Goodbye!!!!!!!!!
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"QANTAS Pilots at the helm"........"God help the public."
Getcha hands orf it sonny boy.
QANTAS pilots were "at the helm" in Bangkok.
Thousands of flights operate internationally daily without QANTAS pilots "at the helm".
Some of youse guys really do deserve whats comin' your way!
Be seein' youse round!
Getcha hands orf it sonny boy.
QANTAS pilots were "at the helm" in Bangkok.
Thousands of flights operate internationally daily without QANTAS pilots "at the helm".
Some of youse guys really do deserve whats comin' your way!
Be seein' youse round!
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Fox, (if I may make so bold as to call you by your first name, Agent M), you say (apparently with some passion):
I really hate to rain on your parade, sunshine, but the sad fact is 99.99% of the travelling public don't give a rotund rodent's rectum whether the pilots up front are space shuttle qualified or bare bones CPLs; only whether their tickets were $10 cheaper than they would have been with carrier 'X' who may employ (pause to adopt awed tone) Qantas MAINLINE pilots.
I think this attitude adopted by some Skippy MAINLINE drivers that they are somehow a special breed, a cut above all other drivers/airframe stems from the QF company indoctrination lectures given in Week One of QF intake training.
No one doubts that to make it into Skippy MAINLINE you have to jump through some serious hoops without getting grass stains on your freshly drycleaned slacks or blazer elbows, but you do yourselves no favours at all making patently silly comments like the one you made above that seem to assume that people outside the industry (or ‘lesser brethren’ inside it) think you are so special that they will willingly entrust their lives to you and only you.
Back in 1989, (are you old enough to remember that year?), the domestic pilots had the same fantasy you still seem to enjoy, imagining that the travelling public would demand that they be flown only by 'the best' - and the travelling public were totally underwhelmed, demanding only that they get from A to B when they wanted to with whomever would fly them.
And so it remains today.
…it is important that every QF MAINLINE pilot makes it known to potential passengers that the Pilots FLYING THE AEROPLANE ARE NOT QANTAS PILOTS! THEY HAVE NEVER PASSED A QANTAS COMMAND COURSE AND HAVE NEVER PASSED A QANTAS INDUCTION COURSE.
I think this attitude adopted by some Skippy MAINLINE drivers that they are somehow a special breed, a cut above all other drivers/airframe stems from the QF company indoctrination lectures given in Week One of QF intake training.
No one doubts that to make it into Skippy MAINLINE you have to jump through some serious hoops without getting grass stains on your freshly drycleaned slacks or blazer elbows, but you do yourselves no favours at all making patently silly comments like the one you made above that seem to assume that people outside the industry (or ‘lesser brethren’ inside it) think you are so special that they will willingly entrust their lives to you and only you.
Back in 1989, (are you old enough to remember that year?), the domestic pilots had the same fantasy you still seem to enjoy, imagining that the travelling public would demand that they be flown only by 'the best' - and the travelling public were totally underwhelmed, demanding only that they get from A to B when they wanted to with whomever would fly them.
And so it remains today.
Nunc est bibendum
Wiley, OZ, I think you guys miss the point. Whether QF drivers are the worlds best (we're not but I'm not sure anyone can lay claim to that anyway) is not the issue.
QF advertise the fact (on board magazine, press releases and interviews) that the start ups have all the 'operational excellence for which Qantas is famous for'. It's a company line and whether you guys think it is deserved or not, a world view by the travelling public of QF is that it is 'safe'. What you end up with is the perception that the LCCs ARE QF but just in different colours. You'd be suprised at the reactions I've had from people when discusssing the LCCs when they find out that the drivers aren't 'Qantas' pilots.
Now, I'm not hooking into thier standards at all, they pass the checks which CASA over sight and I observed a sector HTI-SYD a couple of years back and was impressed at the similarities in operation. The real issue is that Joe Public isn't particularly well informed. They think they are getting QF pilots (with all the history and experience that comes with that- deserved or not) and they're not!
I guess at the end of the day, QF trade off a low cost structure on the basis of a reputation built up by what is definately not a low cost training system in mainline that spends a truck load of money on things like on board managers courses, command school, etc, etc, etc.
QF advertise the fact (on board magazine, press releases and interviews) that the start ups have all the 'operational excellence for which Qantas is famous for'. It's a company line and whether you guys think it is deserved or not, a world view by the travelling public of QF is that it is 'safe'. What you end up with is the perception that the LCCs ARE QF but just in different colours. You'd be suprised at the reactions I've had from people when discusssing the LCCs when they find out that the drivers aren't 'Qantas' pilots.
Now, I'm not hooking into thier standards at all, they pass the checks which CASA over sight and I observed a sector HTI-SYD a couple of years back and was impressed at the similarities in operation. The real issue is that Joe Public isn't particularly well informed. They think they are getting QF pilots (with all the history and experience that comes with that- deserved or not) and they're not!
I guess at the end of the day, QF trade off a low cost structure on the basis of a reputation built up by what is definately not a low cost training system in mainline that spends a truck load of money on things like on board managers courses, command school, etc, etc, etc.
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Fartsock has a valid point here, lets back up these propaganda quotes with fact.
Agent moulder, not all pilots flying with QF offshoots are the Impulse bottom dwellers you are referring to, we have alot of ex Ansett and other airline experience out and about as well which is a good thing.
To all that take delight in quoting Bangkok and QF 1, were you guys asleep when Virgin ran off the Runway in Darwin? it's a small point, but he who scoffs at another pilots incident could well find him or herself having an incident before too long.
Agent moulder, not all pilots flying with QF offshoots are the Impulse bottom dwellers you are referring to, we have alot of ex Ansett and other airline experience out and about as well which is a good thing.
To all that take delight in quoting Bangkok and QF 1, were you guys asleep when Virgin ran off the Runway in Darwin? it's a small point, but he who scoffs at another pilots incident could well find him or herself having an incident before too long.
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Keg - I don't think that Wiley and Oz have missed the point. Re-read Mulder's post, he is a tosser.
The QF interview was a joke, the sim ride the same. The only barrier to some pilots who might think about applying to QF is the bull**** psychometric testing and passes in HSC English! Is this really relevent when the applicant has thousands of hours of jet command time?
I understand YOUR point BUT that was not the intent of Mulder's.
The QF interview was a joke, the sim ride the same. The only barrier to some pilots who might think about applying to QF is the bull**** psychometric testing and passes in HSC English! Is this really relevent when the applicant has thousands of hours of jet command time?
I understand YOUR point BUT that was not the intent of Mulder's.
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Gotta agree there. There is one 744 Capt who digs a hole for himself every time he posts. People find it hard to give credibility to a guy who is lacking the basics in grammar and spelling.. not to mention logic!
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CORRECTION
WRT Jetstar Asia - most of the Captains are current Qantas pilots, albeit former Ansett Captains who have escaped s/o seniority. Some f/o's are also in the same boat. Then lets not forget the cadets.........
Likewise in Jetstar Australia there are a growing number of former Blue Chip Airline pilots, recently, the former Ansett 737 Training Manager (who holds QF seniority) joined Jetstar.
It must be interesting to say the least for these guys to jump back into the left hand seat, for $100k less than they were earning 3 YEARS AGO.
Thats progress I guess
WRT Jetstar Asia - most of the Captains are current Qantas pilots, albeit former Ansett Captains who have escaped s/o seniority. Some f/o's are also in the same boat. Then lets not forget the cadets.........
Likewise in Jetstar Australia there are a growing number of former Blue Chip Airline pilots, recently, the former Ansett 737 Training Manager (who holds QF seniority) joined Jetstar.
It must be interesting to say the least for these guys to jump back into the left hand seat, for $100k less than they were earning 3 YEARS AGO.
Thats progress I guess