Singapore could call Qantas its own
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Agent Mulder referred to bottom dwellers sullying the QF mainline name and Pete Conrad corrects him to say that some of the people aren't bottom dwellers, but true blue, to-be-respected ex-AN pilots who are now fully accredited QF mainline pilots.
Some of us remember how many of the more senior of these ex-AN pilots got to be AN pilots - they were among the pond life that flocked to Australia or came from elsewhere within Australia to gleefully start the deep wound that has since damn near bled Australia pilots' working conditions dry.
Some of these individuals have been heard to crow recently that the promises (or threats) of the 89ers that pond life like them would never get a flying job overseas have proven to be without foundation.
However, the joke is really on the bottom dwellers (and unfortunately, on every other Australian pilot as well) in that the overseas jobs they are taking are proving to be poorly paid and 'enjoying' conditions that are a pale shadow of what was once accepted as a minimum for a professional aviator.
And who do we have to blame for much of this? Look no further than the now 'respected' (by Pete Conrad at least) ex-AN heroes.
Some of us remember how many of the more senior of these ex-AN pilots got to be AN pilots - they were among the pond life that flocked to Australia or came from elsewhere within Australia to gleefully start the deep wound that has since damn near bled Australia pilots' working conditions dry.
Some of these individuals have been heard to crow recently that the promises (or threats) of the 89ers that pond life like them would never get a flying job overseas have proven to be without foundation.
However, the joke is really on the bottom dwellers (and unfortunately, on every other Australian pilot as well) in that the overseas jobs they are taking are proving to be poorly paid and 'enjoying' conditions that are a pale shadow of what was once accepted as a minimum for a professional aviator.
And who do we have to blame for much of this? Look no further than the now 'respected' (by Pete Conrad at least) ex-AN heroes.
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Have a little respect and don't try to turn this into an '89 thread. Anyway the heroes that left the country back in '89 aren't helping improve matters are they??? They took the jobs at VB for murf's sake......... 
PS I'll be good.........
PS I'll be good.........
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What an absolute load of cr@p to suggest that ALL Jetstar, and VB pilots are "failed QF Applicants". Many I know have CHOSEN not to pursue a gig with the "Skygods" even when offered the opportunity.
It would appear QF's a rather bitter outfit now anyway, too big and too many egos. Dixon's favourite chess game - thats QF !
It would appear QF's a rather bitter outfit now anyway, too big and too many egos. Dixon's favourite chess game - thats QF !
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Pacific Storm
Business Review Weekly
Pacific Storm
Qantas is getting ready for a fight, as Singapore Airlines tries to take a bite of its profitable Pacific route.
The chief executive of Qantas, Geoff Dixon, might well regard Singapore's Transport Minister, Yeo Cheow Tong, as the $130-million man. This is an estimate of how much Qantas profits from the lucrative, protected aviation route between Australia and the United States. When Yeo arrives in Australia in mid-February to push for liberalisation of one of the most profitable routes in the world, he can expect a fight from Qantas.
Competition should lead to improved services and reduced prices, but Qantas, which dominates the Australian-US aviation route, is not going to give up this virtual monopoly without a fight. With an estimated profit margin of about 17% - double that of many other routes - Qantas shareholders will watch the battle closely. On February 14, the Australian and Singaporean governments will meet to discuss "open skies", which could give Singapore Airlines access to the trans-Pacific route.
Although the federal Transport Minister, John Anderson, is not impressed with the tough talk from Qantas and Singapore Airlines, who are promoting their respective positions, he is unlikely to completely scrap this veil of protectionism. The airways will be liberalised, but it probably will not happen immediately and concessions will no doubt be given to Qantas.
As part of the Singapore-Australia Free Trade Agreement signed in July 2003, the countries agreed to conclude an open skies air services agreement when there is "greater stability in the global aviation environment".
Anderson is not keen to pre-empt the talks with the Singaporeans, but his office gave BRW its definition of "stability". "The Government will assess and determine whether the aviation market has sufficiently stabilised in the wake of events like September 11 and Sars, but clearly the concept of stability implies a prolonged period of favourable operating conditions for the global carriers like Qantas and Singapore Airlines."
In addition to Qantas, flights between Australia and the west coast of the US are also flown by United Airlines. Not only is United in a less-competitive position, but the cash-strapped airline is further hampered by being in bankruptcy.
The Australia-US flight costs passengers more per kilometre than other routes that are more competitive. For example, a business class fare from Sydney to Los Angeles (24,104 kilometres return) is about 46¢ per kilometre, while the more competitive Sydney to London route (34,028 kilometres return) is about 30¢ per kilometre. Although the longer the flight the lower the cost, this equation does suggest that there is consumer benefit in aviation competition - a proposition already agreed to by the Singaporean and Australian governments.
According to Citigroup's transport analyst, Jason Smith, the trans-Pacific route represents less than 12% of Qantas's earnings before interest and tax and about 7% of the company's total revenue. Smith says this route is important, but because of recent expansion, in proportional terms, its contribution is diminishing.
Most transport experts believe that an open skies policy is inevitable - it is a question of how long Qantas can keep this profit stream to itself. Ian Thomas, senior consultant at the Centre for Asia-Pacific Aviation, says there are no "technical barriers" to increased competition; the obstacles are political. "Open skies is inevitable, but it depends on how good Qantas has been at lobbying."
Thomas believes that there is now stability in the market and that Qantas has had enough time to build its position for future competition. He concedes, however, that Qantas cannot take full advantage of the rights that Singapore can bestow upon it, due to obstacles with third countries. He is sympathetic to the notion that open skies will benefit Singapore: "A lot of people see this as a lopsided benefit for Singapore."
Thomas argues that with the likelihood of lower fares, Australian consumers will benefit. If Singapore Airlines competes on the Pacific route, Thomas estimates it could have 20-25% of the market within two years. This would come from Qantas's market share (Thomas believes it to be about 80%) and from United Airlines' share.
If Singapore Airlines wins the right to compete with Qantas for passengers to the US, it will no doubt attract the interest of other carriers. Thomas says Emirates would be interested in entering this market.
More competition
Citigroup's Jason Smith predicts that a third airline will enter the trans-Pacific market within the next 12 months. He says one contender could be an entity associated with Virgin Blue. This is complicated, because of Virgin Blue's links with Virgin Atlantic, which in turn is 49%-owned by Singapore Airlines. On January 31, Singapore Airlines told the Singapore Stock Exchange: "Singa-pore Airlines is not in the market for, or considering, any investment in Virgin Blue. Our interest in Australia is very much focused on seeking the right to provide competition to benefit the travelling public between Australia and the USA."
Despite reports that Virgin Blue is exploring trans-Pacific operations, the chief executive of Singapore Airlines, Chew Choon Seng, says his company has not been involved in those deliberations.
Jason Smith's other scenario is a gradual phasing-in of rights to Singapore Airlines. This may start with the right to fly from Brisbane or Melbourne, with a limit on the frequency of flights. Singapore Airlines has said that, ideally, it would like to have at least a daily operation to the US. Smith believes that this will not be provided immediately, nor will there be instant access to the busy Sydney market. He also believes that the Government will help Qantas gain access rights to other countries beyond Singapore.
If Singapore Airlines is not successful in gaining access to Australia in its own right, Smith says it would be interested in the potential Virgin Blue long-haul operation.
This gradual approach is consistent with how the Government provided Emirates with landing rights in Australia. Emirates first sought entry to Australia in the mid-1990s; access and frequency were phased in over time. It started daily flights from Melbourne in 1996, and in May of this year it will have reached its optimum position of twice-daily flights from Sydney.
A compromise makes political sense. It blunts the pressure by Qantas, it is consistent with what has been awarded to other international carriers, and it allows the Government to claim some free-market credentials.
It would be easier for the Government if there was clear evidence that prices will fall as a result of an open skies reform. It is not in Qantas's interests to make this point, and Singapore Airlines has shied away from making any guarantees. Chew says: "Our track record has always been that we would be competitive, but at the end of the day it is not necessarily cheaper but it is an alternative and the consumer decides." The airline clarifies this by saying that it would expect prices to moderate due to competition and become more "proportionate" with the cheaper European flights.
It will take some time to know whether this is enough for Cabinet to recommend the reforms, albeit in a compromised _fashion.
=========================================
Pacific Storm
Qantas is getting ready for a fight, as Singapore Airlines tries to take a bite of its profitable Pacific route.
The chief executive of Qantas, Geoff Dixon, might well regard Singapore's Transport Minister, Yeo Cheow Tong, as the $130-million man. This is an estimate of how much Qantas profits from the lucrative, protected aviation route between Australia and the United States. When Yeo arrives in Australia in mid-February to push for liberalisation of one of the most profitable routes in the world, he can expect a fight from Qantas.
Competition should lead to improved services and reduced prices, but Qantas, which dominates the Australian-US aviation route, is not going to give up this virtual monopoly without a fight. With an estimated profit margin of about 17% - double that of many other routes - Qantas shareholders will watch the battle closely. On February 14, the Australian and Singaporean governments will meet to discuss "open skies", which could give Singapore Airlines access to the trans-Pacific route.
Although the federal Transport Minister, John Anderson, is not impressed with the tough talk from Qantas and Singapore Airlines, who are promoting their respective positions, he is unlikely to completely scrap this veil of protectionism. The airways will be liberalised, but it probably will not happen immediately and concessions will no doubt be given to Qantas.
As part of the Singapore-Australia Free Trade Agreement signed in July 2003, the countries agreed to conclude an open skies air services agreement when there is "greater stability in the global aviation environment".
Anderson is not keen to pre-empt the talks with the Singaporeans, but his office gave BRW its definition of "stability". "The Government will assess and determine whether the aviation market has sufficiently stabilised in the wake of events like September 11 and Sars, but clearly the concept of stability implies a prolonged period of favourable operating conditions for the global carriers like Qantas and Singapore Airlines."
In addition to Qantas, flights between Australia and the west coast of the US are also flown by United Airlines. Not only is United in a less-competitive position, but the cash-strapped airline is further hampered by being in bankruptcy.
The Australia-US flight costs passengers more per kilometre than other routes that are more competitive. For example, a business class fare from Sydney to Los Angeles (24,104 kilometres return) is about 46¢ per kilometre, while the more competitive Sydney to London route (34,028 kilometres return) is about 30¢ per kilometre. Although the longer the flight the lower the cost, this equation does suggest that there is consumer benefit in aviation competition - a proposition already agreed to by the Singaporean and Australian governments.
According to Citigroup's transport analyst, Jason Smith, the trans-Pacific route represents less than 12% of Qantas's earnings before interest and tax and about 7% of the company's total revenue. Smith says this route is important, but because of recent expansion, in proportional terms, its contribution is diminishing.
Most transport experts believe that an open skies policy is inevitable - it is a question of how long Qantas can keep this profit stream to itself. Ian Thomas, senior consultant at the Centre for Asia-Pacific Aviation, says there are no "technical barriers" to increased competition; the obstacles are political. "Open skies is inevitable, but it depends on how good Qantas has been at lobbying."
Thomas believes that there is now stability in the market and that Qantas has had enough time to build its position for future competition. He concedes, however, that Qantas cannot take full advantage of the rights that Singapore can bestow upon it, due to obstacles with third countries. He is sympathetic to the notion that open skies will benefit Singapore: "A lot of people see this as a lopsided benefit for Singapore."
Thomas argues that with the likelihood of lower fares, Australian consumers will benefit. If Singapore Airlines competes on the Pacific route, Thomas estimates it could have 20-25% of the market within two years. This would come from Qantas's market share (Thomas believes it to be about 80%) and from United Airlines' share.
If Singapore Airlines wins the right to compete with Qantas for passengers to the US, it will no doubt attract the interest of other carriers. Thomas says Emirates would be interested in entering this market.
More competition
Citigroup's Jason Smith predicts that a third airline will enter the trans-Pacific market within the next 12 months. He says one contender could be an entity associated with Virgin Blue. This is complicated, because of Virgin Blue's links with Virgin Atlantic, which in turn is 49%-owned by Singapore Airlines. On January 31, Singapore Airlines told the Singapore Stock Exchange: "Singa-pore Airlines is not in the market for, or considering, any investment in Virgin Blue. Our interest in Australia is very much focused on seeking the right to provide competition to benefit the travelling public between Australia and the USA."
Despite reports that Virgin Blue is exploring trans-Pacific operations, the chief executive of Singapore Airlines, Chew Choon Seng, says his company has not been involved in those deliberations.
Jason Smith's other scenario is a gradual phasing-in of rights to Singapore Airlines. This may start with the right to fly from Brisbane or Melbourne, with a limit on the frequency of flights. Singapore Airlines has said that, ideally, it would like to have at least a daily operation to the US. Smith believes that this will not be provided immediately, nor will there be instant access to the busy Sydney market. He also believes that the Government will help Qantas gain access rights to other countries beyond Singapore.
If Singapore Airlines is not successful in gaining access to Australia in its own right, Smith says it would be interested in the potential Virgin Blue long-haul operation.
This gradual approach is consistent with how the Government provided Emirates with landing rights in Australia. Emirates first sought entry to Australia in the mid-1990s; access and frequency were phased in over time. It started daily flights from Melbourne in 1996, and in May of this year it will have reached its optimum position of twice-daily flights from Sydney.
A compromise makes political sense. It blunts the pressure by Qantas, it is consistent with what has been awarded to other international carriers, and it allows the Government to claim some free-market credentials.
It would be easier for the Government if there was clear evidence that prices will fall as a result of an open skies reform. It is not in Qantas's interests to make this point, and Singapore Airlines has shied away from making any guarantees. Chew says: "Our track record has always been that we would be competitive, but at the end of the day it is not necessarily cheaper but it is an alternative and the consumer decides." The airline clarifies this by saying that it would expect prices to moderate due to competition and become more "proportionate" with the cheaper European flights.
It will take some time to know whether this is enough for Cabinet to recommend the reforms, albeit in a compromised _fashion.
=========================================
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Statement 1:
Statement 2:
So SIA wants to provide competition ... but it will not be cheaper. How is this different to just saying that "we want a piece of Qantas' action"? And how does this benefit Australia?
Of course all the QF bashers on this thread will flock to SIA, a mini-price war will erupt across the Pacific, Qantas' profit on its last money-making route will fall and Qantas will seek bigger pay concessions from its "militant" unions to subsidise the travelling public.
BLOODY FANTASTIC!!!!!
Let's hear it for open skies
... focused on seeking the right to provide competition to benefit the travelling public between Australia and the USA.
we would be competitive, but at the end of the day it is not necessarily cheaper
Of course all the QF bashers on this thread will flock to SIA, a mini-price war will erupt across the Pacific, Qantas' profit on its last money-making route will fall and Qantas will seek bigger pay concessions from its "militant" unions to subsidise the travelling public.
BLOODY FANTASTIC!!!!!
Let's hear it for open skies
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Yeah, who'd leave a B777 captaincy with a major overseas airline paying JUST short of $200k a year to fly A320's for chicken feed?
The ex-AN heroes can have 'em! They can have Vietnam, Taiwan, and all the other backwaters of the world. With our blessing! Someone has to do it!!!!!!!
The ex-AN heroes can have 'em! They can have Vietnam, Taiwan, and all the other backwaters of the world. With our blessing! Someone has to do it!!!!!!!
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Wed "The Australian"
Support for Singapore's air route bid
Katharine Murphy
February 16, 2005
SINGAPORE Airlines' push to gain access to a lucrative international air route between Australia and the west coast of the US has received cautious support from the Government.
After a meeting last night with Singaporean Transport Minister Yeo Cheow Tong, Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane told The Australian he was prepared to consider the proposal if three conditions were met.
"There would need to be a phased introduction of flights on this route; the capacity brought on the route by Singapore would need to match demand; and Singapore Airlines should not be able to use its big Airbus to compete unfairly against Qantas," he said.
Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson will go to Europe this weekend to try to secure better access for Qantas in the European aviation market. Mr Anderson also held talks on Monday with Mr Yeo.
The entry of Singapore to the trans-Pacific route could lead to increased competition and lower airfares for Australians. But Qantas has significant clout in Canberra, and concerns have been raised about the impact on Australian jobs.
The issue will not go to cabinet for several months, but The Australian understands that several ministers are in favour of the Singaporean proposal provided Qantas can improve its access in other international markets.
=============================================
Support for Singapore's air route bid
Katharine Murphy
February 16, 2005
SINGAPORE Airlines' push to gain access to a lucrative international air route between Australia and the west coast of the US has received cautious support from the Government.
After a meeting last night with Singaporean Transport Minister Yeo Cheow Tong, Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane told The Australian he was prepared to consider the proposal if three conditions were met.
"There would need to be a phased introduction of flights on this route; the capacity brought on the route by Singapore would need to match demand; and Singapore Airlines should not be able to use its big Airbus to compete unfairly against Qantas," he said.
Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson will go to Europe this weekend to try to secure better access for Qantas in the European aviation market. Mr Anderson also held talks on Monday with Mr Yeo.
The entry of Singapore to the trans-Pacific route could lead to increased competition and lower airfares for Australians. But Qantas has significant clout in Canberra, and concerns have been raised about the impact on Australian jobs.
The issue will not go to cabinet for several months, but The Australian understands that several ministers are in favour of the Singaporean proposal provided Qantas can improve its access in other international markets.
=============================================
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How ignorant are our politicians?
Quote
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"The Australian understands that several ministers are in favour of the Singaporean proposal provided Qantas can improve its access in other international markets."
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It's about time someone in the well paid Canberra bureaucracy told these pr1cks that the Australian Government is responsible for the negotiation of traffic rights for Australian airlines. I am sure that Qantas would love to do the job but they are not in any position to - never have and never will be. And judging by thge noise emanating from Ministers, Qantas would appear to have little influence over what is negotiated, quite often traded for pork barrelling purposes. In other words, traffic rights are often traded/ceded in exchange for market access for something quite unrelated to air services.
------------------------------------------------------
"The Australian understands that several ministers are in favour of the Singaporean proposal provided Qantas can improve its access in other international markets."
------------------------------------------------------
It's about time someone in the well paid Canberra bureaucracy told these pr1cks that the Australian Government is responsible for the negotiation of traffic rights for Australian airlines. I am sure that Qantas would love to do the job but they are not in any position to - never have and never will be. And judging by thge noise emanating from Ministers, Qantas would appear to have little influence over what is negotiated, quite often traded for pork barrelling purposes. In other words, traffic rights are often traded/ceded in exchange for market access for something quite unrelated to air services.
