Why would you want to work at Jetstar..NOT
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Grove. The unfortunate tone of your posts highlights one of Jetstars biggest problems. Poor crew morale is costly in so many ways. Once this attitude becomes self sustaining with in a company it is very hard to get rid of.
This must be a challenge for management. Im sure they are aware of the problem.
DM
This must be a challenge for management. Im sure they are aware of the problem.
DM
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Sadly Grove isn't alone in his/her frustrations with the company. I find myself working with alot of dissatisfied people online at the moment, and i have found that its usually older crew like Grove. I guess this is because newer crew don't know any better!
The aircraft can get quite disgusting during the day without a proper clean. Im so over trying to get chewing gum off seats with Bren-clear....and the crew meals.....don't even get me started!
But the reason I look forward to going to work everyday is the people I work with. Jetstar crew are caring, friendly, generous people (this includes tech crew....love your work guys!)
We work hard and we stick together. Thats what makes the company so great!
The aircraft can get quite disgusting during the day without a proper clean. Im so over trying to get chewing gum off seats with Bren-clear....and the crew meals.....don't even get me started!
But the reason I look forward to going to work everyday is the people I work with. Jetstar crew are caring, friendly, generous people (this includes tech crew....love your work guys!)
We work hard and we stick together. Thats what makes the company so great!
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Jet* is the without exception the worst airline I have encountered. I’m not just comparing it to the likes of Easy or Air2000 either, as I have traveled on airlines domestically in Africa (excluding South Africa, I talking about the real sh1t holes ).
Jet* sells tickets for $8, so what do you expect? This is a sh1t airline and advertises it’s self as nothing more. If you hate working there (quite understandable) then join Mainline as per your EBA and go to PER or apply to Virgin. Otherwise except the fact you will be surrounded by Westies belching “give us another beer ya bitch!” and treated like **** by the Irish d1ckhead and his team.
Just to clarify; I fell sorry for the girls at Scum*. The only choice is to to leave to QF or DJ because it aint gonna get better.
). Jet* sells tickets for $8, so what do you expect? This is a sh1t airline and advertises it’s self as nothing more. If you hate working there (quite understandable) then join Mainline as per your EBA and go to PER or apply to Virgin. Otherwise except the fact you will be surrounded by Westies belching “give us another beer ya bitch!” and treated like **** by the Irish d1ckhead and his team.
Just to clarify; I fell sorry for the girls at Scum*. The only choice is to to leave to QF or DJ because it aint gonna get better.
Thread Starter
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If Jetstar only cleaned the planes once a day it would make the enviroment so much better...For pax and crew..Is it too much to expect your employer to provide you with a clean toilet to use..Believe me it aint such a nice way to spend up to 9.5hrs of your day....Alocated seating would be an absolute luxury
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What - join mainline as a casual? Some people need the security of full time employment.
Sadly, the way this industry is going, full time is becoming the exception, and casualisation the norm.
Sadly, the way this industry is going, full time is becoming the exception, and casualisation the norm.
Posting on Bulletin Boards 101
moral = Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
morale = The state of the spirits of a person or group as exhibited by confidence, cheerfulness, discipline, and willingness to perform assigned tasks.
lose = To be unsuccessful in retaining possession of; mislay
loser = One that fails consistently, especially a person with bad luck or poor skills
loose = Not fastened, restrained, or contained
looser = more loose.
Eg This loser has no morale. If she was any looser, she'd have no morals at all.
Apologies, just HAD to get that off my chest. Continue.
moral = Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
morale = The state of the spirits of a person or group as exhibited by confidence, cheerfulness, discipline, and willingness to perform assigned tasks.
lose = To be unsuccessful in retaining possession of; mislay
loser = One that fails consistently, especially a person with bad luck or poor skills
loose = Not fastened, restrained, or contained
looser = more loose.
Eg This loser has no morale. If she was any looser, she'd have no morals at all.
Apologies, just HAD to get that off my chest. Continue.
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For the crew who were around at the startup of Jetstar (25 May), it was always going to be an awkward transition. Going from a full service carrier, to a low cost carrier essentially overnight was never going to be an easy move. Especially when promises were made about how great things were going to be - and then, weren't.
Interestingly enough, the crew who were with Impulse from the start (which number around 80-100 odd currently) fondly remember the days when they were paid much less, yet had a much better product to offer, including:
* Seat allocation
* Free tea, coffee & newspapers
* Pay-as-you-go drinks & snack service
* Planes that were cleaned each turnaround, by the crew and a ground handler
Some may argue that aspects of the old-Impulse product were out of step with a low cost carrier - but surely not to the extent it would bankrupt an airline! Whilst seat allocation doesn't necessarily guarantee seats together, it was a familiar system for passengers. Everybody knew where they stood.
One can only hope that things will get better...because they surely can't get worse!
Interestingly enough, the crew who were with Impulse from the start (which number around 80-100 odd currently) fondly remember the days when they were paid much less, yet had a much better product to offer, including:
* Seat allocation
* Free tea, coffee & newspapers
* Pay-as-you-go drinks & snack service
* Planes that were cleaned each turnaround, by the crew and a ground handler
Some may argue that aspects of the old-Impulse product were out of step with a low cost carrier - but surely not to the extent it would bankrupt an airline! Whilst seat allocation doesn't necessarily guarantee seats together, it was a familiar system for passengers. Everybody knew where they stood.
One can only hope that things will get better...because they surely can't get worse!
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Joke Star are a prime example of the standard of airline management worldwide, today.
The "New Frontier".
These are the "Rising Stars" of tomorrow, but in truth are the shooting stars of today.
They have learnt NOTHING from their predecessors, and in spite of their LACK of "hands on", know it all!
They learn only by trial and error. Although it was trialled and failed several times in the past, they MUST try it again for themselves - at the expense of causing customers GROSS inconvenience, p!ssing staff off no end, and being shown up to be the FOOLS they are for ignoring advice from older and wiser heads!
But why worry about cost? The bulk of the workforce is being paid monkeys' wages, and so these f@ckups are paid for, from the pockets of the peons working the front line!
The more money that can be saved on a daily basis, by leaving the sh!t-splattered toilets dirty, the carpets puke smelling, and the galleys cockroach infested, the more there'll be for BONUS sharing!
Eimar Moron
The "New Frontier".
These are the "Rising Stars" of tomorrow, but in truth are the shooting stars of today.
They have learnt NOTHING from their predecessors, and in spite of their LACK of "hands on", know it all!
They learn only by trial and error. Although it was trialled and failed several times in the past, they MUST try it again for themselves - at the expense of causing customers GROSS inconvenience, p!ssing staff off no end, and being shown up to be the FOOLS they are for ignoring advice from older and wiser heads!
But why worry about cost? The bulk of the workforce is being paid monkeys' wages, and so these f@ckups are paid for, from the pockets of the peons working the front line!
The more money that can be saved on a daily basis, by leaving the sh!t-splattered toilets dirty, the carpets puke smelling, and the galleys cockroach infested, the more there'll be for BONUS sharing!
Eimar Moron
From the SWISS website. Its going really well.
18.01.2005
SWISS resolves actions to create a profitable and competitive basis for growth
With difficult overall operating parameters, still-rising competitive pressures (especially from the low-cost carriers) and continuing fare erosion in Europe, SWISS is being forced to focus more strongly than ever on profitable markets and competitive structures. In view of this, the company has taken a number of further far-reaching decisions. These include the planned downsizing of the fleet by at least 13 regional aircraft. The flights concerned should largely be taken over by partner airlines, so that customers continue to enjoy an attractive and comprehensive range of air transport services. This, together with further actions, is expected to reduce the SWISS workforce by 800 to 1 000 positions over the next 18 months. Cost savings are also expected through the imminent negotiation of the collective labour agreements and through contractual negotiations with suppliers. SWISS aims to achieve a recurring CHF 300 million improvement in its net annual costs, the full effect of which should be felt from 2007 onwards.
The SWISS Board of Directors and the Management Board want to make SWISS a sustainably competitive airline, and have agreed a further raft of measures designed to achieve this objective. The potential available to SWISS as Switzerland’s network airline must be fully exploited, and a further substantial cost reduction must be effected, if SWISS is to achieve the profitability it seeks in order to gain the entrepreneurial scope required for further investment and future business growth.
Present indications suggest that, if the actions resolved are not swiftly implemented, SWISS will be unable to post a positive operating result for 2005.
Network and fleet restructuring
SWISS intends to strengthen its Zurich hub and transform its Geneva and Basel operations into cost-covering production systems. On top of this, the company aims to expand its Zurich-based network through codeshare collaborations with partner carriers. SWISS also intends to deploy larger equipment on certain routes, to offer customers greater inflight comfort and reduce its unit costs in response to the competition it faces from the low-cost carriers.
SWISS plans to transfer a large number of the routes currently operated from Basel to partner airlines’ operation in the course of 2006. The company intends to retain its presence in Basel, however, through co-branding agreements with airline partners: all these services should be operated as codeshares, ensuring that Basel-based customers can continue to enjoy the benefits of the Swiss TravelClub and book all their flights via SWISS. The present Basel maintenance operations will be realigned to the new operational arrangements.
In Geneva, the routes which are currently unable to generate a profit will be analysed carefully and transferred to codeshare services operated by partner carriers where appropriate. The present service network should be maintained.
Which aircraft will be affected by the fleet downsizing is currently the subject of ongoing negotiations with partner airlines and the potential purchasers of the equipment concerned.
This new project is connected with the intention to wind up Europe Continental Airways (ECA), SWISS’s French-based subsidiary. The ECA works council has been approached accordingly, at the instigation of ECA Executive Management.
Elimination of 800 to 1 000 positions by mid-2006
The present surpluses in personnel numbers in certain parts of the company, the planned fleet downsizing and other companywide actions envisaged to raise productivity will entail a further substantial reduction of the SWISS workforce by 800 to 1 000 positions. Partnerly solutions will be sought together with the company’s unions for the personnel affected. The reduction will be effected over an extended period, but will be completed by mid-2006. Around a third of the reductions are expected to be achieved through natural attrition.
Negotiations to be commenced on new collective labour agreements
It is SWISS’s declared goal to ensure the future of as many jobs as possible, and to create new ones again in the longer term. But all SWISS employees – in the cockpit, in the cabin, on the ground and among its management corps – must be consistently deployed more productively. In addition to efficiency and productivity improvements, the company will also be seeking to establish a salary structure that is aligned more closely to the competitive environment.
SWISS intends to initiate negotiations with its unions immediately to this end. The company has already devised corresponding cornerstone papers for such discussions. And agreement will be sought on these cornerstones among the social partners over the next few weeks. Detailed negotiations will then be embarked upon once this has been achieved.
Further savings in materials costs
Further substantial economies should be achieved in SWISS’s materials costs, both within the company and with its various suppliers. Bought-in services will in future be handled centrally by a newly-created Chief Procurement Officer.
Positioning as a successful European quality airline
It remains the declared goal of Swiss International Air Lines to be a network carrier with a hub in Zurich which connects Switzerland with Europe and the world. With its new customer-focused user concept, SWISS’s Zurich base will be one of Europe’s most attractive hubs. Geneva will connect Western Switzerland with the Zurich hub and offer direct services of its own to international destinations. In Basel, SWISS will work with partner airlines to maintain a comprehensive range of services for its customers. Lugano will continue to be served via partner carriers.
SWISS intends to further develop its position as a quality air carrier. The adoption of advanced new seats for the Airbus A320 fleet marks a further step in this direction. The new user concept for Zurich Airport will also deliver tangible added value for SWISS customers. And, with its new Boeing Business Jet service to Newark, SWISS is introducing a top-quality product for business travellers between Zurich and New York.
Buoyed by particularly encouraging results from its intercontinental services, SWISS reported an overall seat load factor for 2004 of 74.9%, an improvement of 2.5 percentage points on the previous year. But results for European services were less than satisfactory; and analyses show that SWISS’s European network cannot be operated profitably with the present production structures. “The progress we have achieved to date in improving our cost structures and tapping revenue potential is impressive, but is by no means enough given the present market trends,” says President & Chief Executive Officer Christoph Franz. “The additional actions we have now resolved are essential to make SWISS sustainably competitive and create prospects for growth.”
18.01.2005
SWISS resolves actions to create a profitable and competitive basis for growth
With difficult overall operating parameters, still-rising competitive pressures (especially from the low-cost carriers) and continuing fare erosion in Europe, SWISS is being forced to focus more strongly than ever on profitable markets and competitive structures. In view of this, the company has taken a number of further far-reaching decisions. These include the planned downsizing of the fleet by at least 13 regional aircraft. The flights concerned should largely be taken over by partner airlines, so that customers continue to enjoy an attractive and comprehensive range of air transport services. This, together with further actions, is expected to reduce the SWISS workforce by 800 to 1 000 positions over the next 18 months. Cost savings are also expected through the imminent negotiation of the collective labour agreements and through contractual negotiations with suppliers. SWISS aims to achieve a recurring CHF 300 million improvement in its net annual costs, the full effect of which should be felt from 2007 onwards.
The SWISS Board of Directors and the Management Board want to make SWISS a sustainably competitive airline, and have agreed a further raft of measures designed to achieve this objective. The potential available to SWISS as Switzerland’s network airline must be fully exploited, and a further substantial cost reduction must be effected, if SWISS is to achieve the profitability it seeks in order to gain the entrepreneurial scope required for further investment and future business growth.
Present indications suggest that, if the actions resolved are not swiftly implemented, SWISS will be unable to post a positive operating result for 2005.
Network and fleet restructuring
SWISS intends to strengthen its Zurich hub and transform its Geneva and Basel operations into cost-covering production systems. On top of this, the company aims to expand its Zurich-based network through codeshare collaborations with partner carriers. SWISS also intends to deploy larger equipment on certain routes, to offer customers greater inflight comfort and reduce its unit costs in response to the competition it faces from the low-cost carriers.
SWISS plans to transfer a large number of the routes currently operated from Basel to partner airlines’ operation in the course of 2006. The company intends to retain its presence in Basel, however, through co-branding agreements with airline partners: all these services should be operated as codeshares, ensuring that Basel-based customers can continue to enjoy the benefits of the Swiss TravelClub and book all their flights via SWISS. The present Basel maintenance operations will be realigned to the new operational arrangements.
In Geneva, the routes which are currently unable to generate a profit will be analysed carefully and transferred to codeshare services operated by partner carriers where appropriate. The present service network should be maintained.
Which aircraft will be affected by the fleet downsizing is currently the subject of ongoing negotiations with partner airlines and the potential purchasers of the equipment concerned.
This new project is connected with the intention to wind up Europe Continental Airways (ECA), SWISS’s French-based subsidiary. The ECA works council has been approached accordingly, at the instigation of ECA Executive Management.
Elimination of 800 to 1 000 positions by mid-2006
The present surpluses in personnel numbers in certain parts of the company, the planned fleet downsizing and other companywide actions envisaged to raise productivity will entail a further substantial reduction of the SWISS workforce by 800 to 1 000 positions. Partnerly solutions will be sought together with the company’s unions for the personnel affected. The reduction will be effected over an extended period, but will be completed by mid-2006. Around a third of the reductions are expected to be achieved through natural attrition.
Negotiations to be commenced on new collective labour agreements
It is SWISS’s declared goal to ensure the future of as many jobs as possible, and to create new ones again in the longer term. But all SWISS employees – in the cockpit, in the cabin, on the ground and among its management corps – must be consistently deployed more productively. In addition to efficiency and productivity improvements, the company will also be seeking to establish a salary structure that is aligned more closely to the competitive environment.
SWISS intends to initiate negotiations with its unions immediately to this end. The company has already devised corresponding cornerstone papers for such discussions. And agreement will be sought on these cornerstones among the social partners over the next few weeks. Detailed negotiations will then be embarked upon once this has been achieved.
Further savings in materials costs
Further substantial economies should be achieved in SWISS’s materials costs, both within the company and with its various suppliers. Bought-in services will in future be handled centrally by a newly-created Chief Procurement Officer.
Positioning as a successful European quality airline
It remains the declared goal of Swiss International Air Lines to be a network carrier with a hub in Zurich which connects Switzerland with Europe and the world. With its new customer-focused user concept, SWISS’s Zurich base will be one of Europe’s most attractive hubs. Geneva will connect Western Switzerland with the Zurich hub and offer direct services of its own to international destinations. In Basel, SWISS will work with partner airlines to maintain a comprehensive range of services for its customers. Lugano will continue to be served via partner carriers.
SWISS intends to further develop its position as a quality air carrier. The adoption of advanced new seats for the Airbus A320 fleet marks a further step in this direction. The new user concept for Zurich Airport will also deliver tangible added value for SWISS customers. And, with its new Boeing Business Jet service to Newark, SWISS is introducing a top-quality product for business travellers between Zurich and New York.
Buoyed by particularly encouraging results from its intercontinental services, SWISS reported an overall seat load factor for 2004 of 74.9%, an improvement of 2.5 percentage points on the previous year. But results for European services were less than satisfactory; and analyses show that SWISS’s European network cannot be operated profitably with the present production structures. “The progress we have achieved to date in improving our cost structures and tapping revenue potential is impressive, but is by no means enough given the present market trends,” says President & Chief Executive Officer Christoph Franz. “The additional actions we have now resolved are essential to make SWISS sustainably competitive and create prospects for growth.”
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Juipiter2. I have some mates that worked for swiss. Not sure about the LCC but as you said the Parent airline was a quality outfit. Unlike others.
If you loose your employees hearts and minds youve lost the game.
DM
If you loose your employees hearts and minds youve lost the game.
DM
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Word from select individuals 'in the know' regarding the company surveys (the ones that went to a third party for collation) is that the results are nothing short of appalling.
One can only hope that the message is FINALLY clear enough for management to understand that NO-ONE is happy.
Or is that taking optimism to the extreme?
One can only hope that the message is FINALLY clear enough for management to understand that NO-ONE is happy.
Or is that taking optimism to the extreme?
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So what's the problem here? What do you expect? This is a low cost airline, you know, the way of the future.
At least at the other joint (DJ), they had Branson running around telling everybody how much fun it was, how they should all be one happy little team.
So look you Jet * mob, take a note from dicky and DJ team. Next time you see a technicolour yawn in the isle or a big T#*d on the toilet floor, you should leap down there with enthusiasm and clean it up. because remember, as dicky would say, it's just great, we're all having such fun, we're all just one big happy team!
At least at the other joint (DJ), they had Branson running around telling everybody how much fun it was, how they should all be one happy little team.
So look you Jet * mob, take a note from dicky and DJ team. Next time you see a technicolour yawn in the isle or a big T#*d on the toilet floor, you should leap down there with enthusiasm and clean it up. because remember, as dicky would say, it's just great, we're all having such fun, we're all just one big happy team!
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Grove -
Totally agree about the cleaning issue. Why is it acceptable for us to pick up poo and have to step over Pringles and dry vomit all day? The company say that they receive no complaints from pax about the state of the cabin. They probably don't. Because pax aren't immersed in it for 4 sectors! Some cabin crew have been speaking to WorkCover NSW.
WorkCover - Contact Us
Rostering is careless and dodgy. Crew levels are shocking.
I believe part of our problem is the behaviour of a minority of our customers. Yeah they pay our salary but the abuse WE receive is unjustified. Some of them are pigs (as so eloquently put by Bank Angle 50!). Management could do more to prevent them from getting abusive. But a pig will behave like a pig regardless. And we get more of them now - hardly the company's fault.
Regarding the boarding / product etc... We get less separated familes than when we had allocated seating. Hammos/MCYs were hideous for that! And moving people around as they didn't get the "window/aisle/front row/near the back/exit row" seat they wanted was a pain. None of that any more. The situation at the Boarding Gate has improved dramatically.
Australians just aren't used to the full on budget air travel concept yet. Remember the mutiny when we stopped serving hot meals with a choice, bar service and hot drinks on 35 minute flights? We got abused and had the boxes thrown back at us! Now our nation's full service 'premium' carrier gives them two biscuits and a drink on most flights (not even in a box!) and pax LOVE it. Because now it's the norm.
I am confused about how you worked out your income. Our base is $39 387. Checkout operators do not earn close to that. Nor do many other occupations that do not require a qualification or uni degree. My 'Year to Date' (6.5 months) total is almost $32 000. Don't forget it was only 4 years ago we earnt $25 000 per YEAR. I would love to earn more. (Actually I want to be a trophy wife and not work at all!) But don't think for a second that money will fix any of the real problems we experience.
Some managers we have are awful and have destroyed everything we loved about the company. We suffer from mis-management, lack of resources and direction. The company is completely disorganised. Procedures are only ever implemented after a debacle of some kind. I am embarrassed to say who I work for, as are most of us.
We can sort out a number of issues come EBA time. But our main concern is the poor management, organisational and resource issues we suffer. This will only change through sticking together and telling them it is not good enough. And we have proven to be a very resilient bunch of people in this regard.
Customers not liking the boarding system or lack of frequent flyer points and free 'meal' are NOT the issues that affect our working conditions. Who cares? Jetstar is cheap... People will fly us. It's a sad but unfortunate fact. The company makes money out of carrying unhappy customers around. They want the world for their $1 fare and we are left to deal with their anger. This will only improve as Jetstar becomes more organised operationally (if ever!) and customers realise cheap fares mean tradeoffs in product.
Let's not hold our breath though!
Fingers and toes...
Totally agree about the cleaning issue. Why is it acceptable for us to pick up poo and have to step over Pringles and dry vomit all day? The company say that they receive no complaints from pax about the state of the cabin. They probably don't. Because pax aren't immersed in it for 4 sectors! Some cabin crew have been speaking to WorkCover NSW.
WorkCover - Contact Us
Rostering is careless and dodgy. Crew levels are shocking.
I believe part of our problem is the behaviour of a minority of our customers. Yeah they pay our salary but the abuse WE receive is unjustified. Some of them are pigs (as so eloquently put by Bank Angle 50!). Management could do more to prevent them from getting abusive. But a pig will behave like a pig regardless. And we get more of them now - hardly the company's fault.
Regarding the boarding / product etc... We get less separated familes than when we had allocated seating. Hammos/MCYs were hideous for that! And moving people around as they didn't get the "window/aisle/front row/near the back/exit row" seat they wanted was a pain. None of that any more. The situation at the Boarding Gate has improved dramatically.
Australians just aren't used to the full on budget air travel concept yet. Remember the mutiny when we stopped serving hot meals with a choice, bar service and hot drinks on 35 minute flights? We got abused and had the boxes thrown back at us! Now our nation's full service 'premium' carrier gives them two biscuits and a drink on most flights (not even in a box!) and pax LOVE it. Because now it's the norm.
I am confused about how you worked out your income. Our base is $39 387. Checkout operators do not earn close to that. Nor do many other occupations that do not require a qualification or uni degree. My 'Year to Date' (6.5 months) total is almost $32 000. Don't forget it was only 4 years ago we earnt $25 000 per YEAR. I would love to earn more. (Actually I want to be a trophy wife and not work at all!) But don't think for a second that money will fix any of the real problems we experience.
Some managers we have are awful and have destroyed everything we loved about the company. We suffer from mis-management, lack of resources and direction. The company is completely disorganised. Procedures are only ever implemented after a debacle of some kind. I am embarrassed to say who I work for, as are most of us.
We can sort out a number of issues come EBA time. But our main concern is the poor management, organisational and resource issues we suffer. This will only change through sticking together and telling them it is not good enough. And we have proven to be a very resilient bunch of people in this regard.
Customers not liking the boarding system or lack of frequent flyer points and free 'meal' are NOT the issues that affect our working conditions. Who cares? Jetstar is cheap... People will fly us. It's a sad but unfortunate fact. The company makes money out of carrying unhappy customers around. They want the world for their $1 fare and we are left to deal with their anger. This will only improve as Jetstar becomes more organised operationally (if ever!) and customers realise cheap fares mean tradeoffs in product.
Let's not hold our breath though!
Fingers and toes...
Last edited by ditzyboy; 24th Jan 2005 at 16:54.
