Sickly Qantas cabin crews (Crikey)
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
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DEFCON
You have also largely described the life of a nurse, who also works shift work. Sure they don't live a life in an aluminium tube, but they also don't have the lurks and perks...ie staff travel...of your average flight attendant.
The major difference is a nurse does it for about half the money of a flight attendant.
I have many cabin crew friends in QF long haul. When I joined 2 years ago most were earning over 80K, and they were in the low to mid level seniority bracket. I know many professional people who work far harder and don't earn that much.
To my mind the market should rule and if you have capable people who can do the job and are prepared to accept the lesser rate, then its fair to say the incumbents are overpaid. There are thousands out there who would accept the life of a flight attendant on lesser T&C's, and who are more than capable doing so. And yes, I do believe the same for pilots. The essential point is they must be CAPABLE.
This is a job requiring no formal qualifications (all due respect to St John's and Responsible Service of Alcohol) and which can be trained in a matter of days. But witness the panic that sets in amongst crew prior to EP's. It's not rocket science, but you would swear Einstein would have trouble passing those exams!
The salary is not justified. It exists through 50 years of protected industry, and unions whose raison d'etre is the preservation of a slack, negative culture that is dragging down an entire airline. It is common amongst all legacy carriers, and it alone is the primary reason for the emergence of LCC's. Dixon has stated that if there was one employee group in QF he could start again with, it would be the cabin crew. Never a truer word spoken. With a little luck government control of both houses and new industrial relations legislation aimed directly at obstructionist unions will assist Qantas to smash the FAAA. Bring it on.
If you don't believe me, try flying another carrier and observe the positive, friendly attitudes of the cabin crew, most of whom earn far less than these sulky, unfriendly, rude, pathetic, protected princesses and queens that hold Qantas to ransom...
You have also largely described the life of a nurse, who also works shift work. Sure they don't live a life in an aluminium tube, but they also don't have the lurks and perks...ie staff travel...of your average flight attendant.
The major difference is a nurse does it for about half the money of a flight attendant.
I have many cabin crew friends in QF long haul. When I joined 2 years ago most were earning over 80K, and they were in the low to mid level seniority bracket. I know many professional people who work far harder and don't earn that much.
To my mind the market should rule and if you have capable people who can do the job and are prepared to accept the lesser rate, then its fair to say the incumbents are overpaid. There are thousands out there who would accept the life of a flight attendant on lesser T&C's, and who are more than capable doing so. And yes, I do believe the same for pilots. The essential point is they must be CAPABLE.
This is a job requiring no formal qualifications (all due respect to St John's and Responsible Service of Alcohol) and which can be trained in a matter of days. But witness the panic that sets in amongst crew prior to EP's. It's not rocket science, but you would swear Einstein would have trouble passing those exams!
The salary is not justified. It exists through 50 years of protected industry, and unions whose raison d'etre is the preservation of a slack, negative culture that is dragging down an entire airline. It is common amongst all legacy carriers, and it alone is the primary reason for the emergence of LCC's. Dixon has stated that if there was one employee group in QF he could start again with, it would be the cabin crew. Never a truer word spoken. With a little luck government control of both houses and new industrial relations legislation aimed directly at obstructionist unions will assist Qantas to smash the FAAA. Bring it on.
If you don't believe me, try flying another carrier and observe the positive, friendly attitudes of the cabin crew, most of whom earn far less than these sulky, unfriendly, rude, pathetic, protected princesses and queens that hold Qantas to ransom...
Nunc est bibendum
In defence of QF cabin Crew
In defence of our cabin crew, some of the better ones are worth every cent they are paid. However, similar to most professions (pilots included), some of them are taking the pay under false pretences. I guess the general feeling of some of the contributors to this discussion and letter to the editors is that in QF, instead of it being 1 or 2 doing that, it is a greater majority.
Comparisons with other industries don't hold up very well. My Dad has just retired from school administration (70 staff and 1200+ students) on less than the average CSM would be a good place to start for a decent comparison. When you start 'adding' premiums for all nighters and time zones and so on but take away for formal qualifications the waters become somewhat muddied.
Anyway, my initial post was to show that some F/As are paid very well!
Comparisons with other industries don't hold up very well. My Dad has just retired from school administration (70 staff and 1200+ students) on less than the average CSM would be a good place to start for a decent comparison. When you start 'adding' premiums for all nighters and time zones and so on but take away for formal qualifications the waters become somewhat muddied.
Anyway, my initial post was to show that some F/As are paid very well!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Flying Tiger,
Perk? You are kidding aren't you? BTW - does that also make it a lurk ?
Well aren't they stupid then.
Your not Geoff Dixon are you? Welcome Aboard!
Most of what you say just sounds like the kind of rhetoric I would hear from an ignorant funds manager, shareholder or Management stooge. It would not sound like anyone who knows the workings of a good service industry.
don't have the lurks and perks...ie staff travel...
. I know many professional people who work far harder and don't earn that much.
To my mind the market should rule and if you have capable people who can do the job and are prepared to accept the lesser rate, then its fair to say the incumbents are overpaid.
Most of what you say just sounds like the kind of rhetoric I would hear from an ignorant funds manager, shareholder or Management stooge. It would not sound like anyone who knows the workings of a good service industry.
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$100K a year to blow the slide (maybe one day, maybe not), serve tea and occasionally clean **** off the toilet floor.
And it is deserved because it is currently paid. No other reason?
How much more cash do they want to smile or serve a second drink?
How much does a SO get?
Who did more training? And by what proportion?
Interesting logic. No wonder no one has sympathy.
And it is deserved because it is currently paid. No other reason?
How much more cash do they want to smile or serve a second drink?
How much does a SO get?
Who did more training? And by what proportion?
Interesting logic. No wonder no one has sympathy.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Nice wind-up, Flying tiger.
At least I hope it's a wind-up, otherwise you look like a real drop kick! Why do we go thru this periodic willy-waving of who is worth what? Getting bitter and twisted about what other people get will put you in an early grave. Why would you hope other people get less, instead of hoping they got more? All that's really happened in the recent past is coal-face employees trading away T&Cs in return for CPI increases, whilst mananger's earnings bloat to sickening levels.
Hope I never get counted as one of your "friends".
You're a pilot are you? How do your colleagues feel about your desire for all work for free? Or are they all your "friends", too?
I know people who work far less and are paid orders of magnitude more. What's your point?
There's an airline offering SOs on jets $1900USD a month. The scramble to get in is amazing. So should that be a benchmark?
At least I hope it's a wind-up, otherwise you look like a real drop kick! Why do we go thru this periodic willy-waving of who is worth what? Getting bitter and twisted about what other people get will put you in an early grave. Why would you hope other people get less, instead of hoping they got more? All that's really happened in the recent past is coal-face employees trading away T&Cs in return for CPI increases, whilst mananger's earnings bloat to sickening levels.
I have many cabin crew friends in QF long haul
these sulky, unfriendly, rude, pathetic, protected princesses and queens that hold Qantas to ransom...
There are thousands out there who would accept the life of a flight attendant on lesser T&C's, and who are more than capable doing so. And yes, I do believe the same for pilots.
I know many professional people who work far harder and don't earn that much.
How much does a SO get?
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Despite the cryings of people such as Geoff Dixon, QANTAS and other Australian airlines are making very large profits. Therefore, it is only reasonable that the people involved in this industry also make good money. Therefore, as a whole, the airline industry has a much higher wage scale than most other industries.
It isn't fair to then compare these wages to other, non-profit areas like education (as one person did). Compare the salary of a baggage handler to a storeperson. Both work shifts and both have a lot of manual lifting involved. The storeperson is probably lucky to bring home 30-35K while the baggage handler can comfortably make 55-60K.
My point is, if QANTAS is making hundreds of millions in profits each year, isn't it reasonable that the employees who are working to make these profits earn a share of this money? Or do you feel it is only right for this money to be shared amongst the share holders and the upper management?
It isn't fair to then compare these wages to other, non-profit areas like education (as one person did). Compare the salary of a baggage handler to a storeperson. Both work shifts and both have a lot of manual lifting involved. The storeperson is probably lucky to bring home 30-35K while the baggage handler can comfortably make 55-60K.
My point is, if QANTAS is making hundreds of millions in profits each year, isn't it reasonable that the employees who are working to make these profits earn a share of this money? Or do you feel it is only right for this money to be shared amongst the share holders and the upper management?
From commercialaviationtoday: (Perhaps the answer!)
Continental Announces New Profit-Sharing Program
Continental Airlines yesterday unveiled to it employees details of its new profit-sharing program. The new profit-sharing program will share 30 percent of the first $250 million of pre-tax income, 25 percent of the next $250 million and 20 percent of amounts over $500 million. The previous profit-sharing program shared 15 percent of the company’s pre-tax income at every level of profitability.
To recognize each work group’s share of the $500 million in annual pay and benefit reductions, half of the profit-sharing pool will be allocated based on the relative share of the reductions of each work group. The other half of the profit-sharing pool will be allocated based on the relative wages of each work group. Once the profit-sharing pool has been allocated among work groups, then co-workers will share in the portion of the profit-sharing pool allocated to their own work group based on relative wages within that work group.
Employees will be able to receive their share of the profits as cash or elect to contribute it to their 401(k) retirement account (subject to applicable limits).
The program has a five-year duration through 2009 and will be implemented upon achieving the $500 million in annual wage and benefit reductions by Feb. 28.
Continental Announces New Profit-Sharing Program
Continental Airlines yesterday unveiled to it employees details of its new profit-sharing program. The new profit-sharing program will share 30 percent of the first $250 million of pre-tax income, 25 percent of the next $250 million and 20 percent of amounts over $500 million. The previous profit-sharing program shared 15 percent of the company’s pre-tax income at every level of profitability.
To recognize each work group’s share of the $500 million in annual pay and benefit reductions, half of the profit-sharing pool will be allocated based on the relative share of the reductions of each work group. The other half of the profit-sharing pool will be allocated based on the relative wages of each work group. Once the profit-sharing pool has been allocated among work groups, then co-workers will share in the portion of the profit-sharing pool allocated to their own work group based on relative wages within that work group.
Employees will be able to receive their share of the profits as cash or elect to contribute it to their 401(k) retirement account (subject to applicable limits).
The program has a five-year duration through 2009 and will be implemented upon achieving the $500 million in annual wage and benefit reductions by Feb. 28.
Nunc est bibendum
Nothing worse than being taken out of context!
isn't fair to then compare these wages to other, non-profit areas like education (as one person did).
Comparisons with other industries don't hold up very well...When you start 'adding' premiums for all nighters and time zones and so on but take away for formal qualifications the waters become somewhat muddied.
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Keg, I wasn't criticising your comment - If anything it was another example of what I was trying to show. Apologies if I offended you. 
I probably should have mentioned Flying Tiger's comparrison to Registered Nurses. Another public service position.
If anything, your dad's position probably compares to a senior manager within Qantas as he was responsible for nearly 1300 people. I don't know the salaries for those positions, but it would be far more than your dad made a year.
I probably should have mentioned Flying Tiger's comparrison to Registered Nurses. Another public service position.If anything, your dad's position probably compares to a senior manager within Qantas as he was responsible for nearly 1300 people. I don't know the salaries for those positions, but it would be far more than your dad made a year.
