Virgin Blue returns to old ways
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Virgin Blue returns to old ways
AAP
Virgin Blue returns to old ways
December 16, 2004 - 6:14PM
Low cost carrier Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd will return to advertising its airfares in a base fare plus taxes format, in line with the practice of its main rival.
The airline has said it regretted having to alter its simple "all inclusive" fare advertising, after Qantas Airways Ltd and its cut price carrier Jetstar returned to the old format.
"The decision to do away with the industry practice of inclusive airline pricing is to the detriment of the travelling public," said Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey.
But with Qantas and Jetstar advertising "non-inclusive" fares, Virgin Blue had been forced to match the practice to remain competitive, he said.
Mr Godfrey said Qantas had used recent court decisions to justify the return to what he said was a confusing system of excluding charges from airfare prices.
The airline would write to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and the Australian Consumers Association to voice its concern.
Mr Godfrey also called on Virgin Blue's customers to support the airline in its complaint.
© 2004 AAP
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==========================================
Virgin Blue returns to old ways
December 16, 2004 - 6:14PM
Low cost carrier Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd will return to advertising its airfares in a base fare plus taxes format, in line with the practice of its main rival.
The airline has said it regretted having to alter its simple "all inclusive" fare advertising, after Qantas Airways Ltd and its cut price carrier Jetstar returned to the old format.
"The decision to do away with the industry practice of inclusive airline pricing is to the detriment of the travelling public," said Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey.
But with Qantas and Jetstar advertising "non-inclusive" fares, Virgin Blue had been forced to match the practice to remain competitive, he said.
Mr Godfrey said Qantas had used recent court decisions to justify the return to what he said was a confusing system of excluding charges from airfare prices.
The airline would write to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and the Australian Consumers Association to voice its concern.
Mr Godfrey also called on Virgin Blue's customers to support the airline in its complaint.
© 2004 AAP
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==========================================
Petrol, get your petrol here, only 20 cents per litre! plus government taxes & charges.
IF the ACCC has any cohunas at all (doubtful) they will ensure ALL airlines only advertise the price of the ticket including extras.
This is plain stupid.
There is a well known car hire company that advertsises it's rates then has extras like airconditioning etc the rub is that all the vehicles have airconditioning so you have to buy that particular "extra".
When the GST came in retailers were forced to include the tax in the price, why should landing fees, passenger service charges, fuel levies, using the toilet tax etc be any different?
How much do I have to pay YOUR COMPANY to go from A-B? The fact that some of that money is collected on behalf of airport operators and the government is irrelevant.
IF the ACCC has any cohunas at all (doubtful) they will ensure ALL airlines only advertise the price of the ticket including extras.
This is plain stupid.
There is a well known car hire company that advertsises it's rates then has extras like airconditioning etc the rub is that all the vehicles have airconditioning so you have to buy that particular "extra".
When the GST came in retailers were forced to include the tax in the price, why should landing fees, passenger service charges, fuel levies, using the toilet tax etc be any different?
How much do I have to pay YOUR COMPANY to go from A-B? The fact that some of that money is collected on behalf of airport operators and the government is irrelevant.
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Fri "Sydney Morning Herald"
Fare wars ignite with $19 ticket
By Alexandra Smith, Transport Reporter
December 17, 2004
Jetstar has sparked a summer airfare war by launching 300,000 cut-price tickets with advertised one-way Sydney-to-Melbourne online fares as low as $19.
But it is the pricing of the tickets - deliberately excluding surcharges or taxes in a swipe at governments and airports over their imposts - that has really irked its competitors.
While Jetstar's online prices will start from $19, the cheapest ticket will be $49 once fuel surcharges and airport taxes are included.
The rival carrier Virgin Blue has labelled the pricing tactic a "lamentable move for consumers" but has immediately followed suit.
Virgin put on the market 500,000 seats for travel from January 18 to May 31, with one-way fares from Sydney to the Sunshine and Gold coasts starting at $49, all inclusive.
Qantas also flooded the market with discounted tickets, for sale until midnight on December 29, with one-way fares such as Sydney-Brisbane for $49, plus $27, or Sydney-Melbourne for $44, plus $30 in charges.
Determined to convince budget-conscious travellers that it is the cheapest in the market, Jetstar will separate its fares from the taxes and fees charged by airports throughout the sale, as will its parent, Qantas.
A spokesman for Jetstar, Simon Westaway, said the $19 fares did not include the airline's $12 fuel surcharge - imposed to cover the costs of rising crude oil prices - or airport charges, set by Airservices Australia.
"I think most people would look at the airport charges they pay and think they were fairly eyebrow raising," Mr Westaway said.
A Jetstar base fare from Hamilton Island to Sydney is available for $39, but incurs $60 in surcharges and taxes, while a fare from Mackay to Sydney is on sale for $25, with $44 in extras.
"Landing charges and passenger fees vary from airport to airport, and the low-volume airports obviously have higher unit costs, and some people would not realise the differences at airports," Mr Westaway said.
He said Jetstar's decision to advertise "base fares plus taxes and charges" was to remain competitive, ensure air travel was accessible to all passengers and to encourage first-time flyers.
In response, Virgin Blue said that from today it would "regrettably revert its all-inclusive airfare advertising back to a base fare plus taxes and charges format".
The chief executive of Virgin Blue, Brett Godfrey, said he disagreed with the practice because it was a return to a confusing system of excluding charges from fare prices.
"We successfully championed in conjunction with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission a giant leap forward for consumers two years ago, and now that gain has been put aside," he said.
"The decision to do away with the industry practice of inclusive airline pricing is to the detriment of the travelling public."
Caroline Wilkie, of the tourism lobby group TTF Australia, welcomed the cheaper fares.
"Australians have taken to low-cost carriers and are enjoying short trips more frequently," she said. "There is no doubt that discount fares will definitely stimulate the domestic market in 2005."
===========================================
Fri "The Australian"
Pricing mix blurs bargain air fares
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
December 17, 2004
NOT planning too far ahead is about to prove a big plus for late-starting holidaymakers after Jetstar, Virgin Blue and Qantas yesterday released hundreds of thousands of sale fares from as low as $49 one way.
But a move by airlines away from pricing that includes taxes and charges means it could be harder for travellers to work out the best deal.
Qantas and Jetstar have reverted to advertising base fares and taxes separately after Federal Court appeals forced the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to soften its stance on all-inclusive pricing.
Taxes and charges can be as high as $54 on domestic routes - more on international routes - and the ACCC had ruled that an all-inclusive price made it easier for consumers to make comparisons.
Jetstar said it was launching 300,000 sale fares for travel from January 18 to May 31, with prices starting at $19, plus taxes of about $30 on routes such as Sydney to the Gold Coast, Sydney to Melbourne Avalon, Brisbane to Newcastle, and Melbourne to Hobart.
The fares are designed to stimulate travel in the traditionally quiet post-Christmas period.
With taxes included, the sale fares top out at about $149 one-way on Cairns-Melbourne and $129 on Cairns-Sydney, while 21 other destinations come in below $99.
Virgin Blue immediately matched the Jetstar sale by making 500,000 cheap seats available, while Qantas launched a parallel sale with fares starting at about $74 one-way (taxes included) between Sydney and Melbourne and $196 between Sydney and Perth.
Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce announced the fare sale as the low-cost Qantas offshoot welcomed its two millionth passenger.
"Of our 2 million passengers carried to date, over 50 per cent have done so for less than $100," Mr Joyce said.
Virgin announced last night it would reluctantly move away from all-inclusive advertising because of the use of the old pricing system by Qantas and Jetstar.
An ACCC spokeswoman admitted the commission had softened its stance after court appeals against the all-inclusive ruling had twice been successful.
Virgin chief executive Brett Godfrey said the low-fare carrier believed the move away from all-inclusive pricing was lamentable for customers and worked to their detriment.
==========================================
Fare wars ignite with $19 ticket
By Alexandra Smith, Transport Reporter
December 17, 2004
Jetstar has sparked a summer airfare war by launching 300,000 cut-price tickets with advertised one-way Sydney-to-Melbourne online fares as low as $19.
But it is the pricing of the tickets - deliberately excluding surcharges or taxes in a swipe at governments and airports over their imposts - that has really irked its competitors.
While Jetstar's online prices will start from $19, the cheapest ticket will be $49 once fuel surcharges and airport taxes are included.
The rival carrier Virgin Blue has labelled the pricing tactic a "lamentable move for consumers" but has immediately followed suit.
Virgin put on the market 500,000 seats for travel from January 18 to May 31, with one-way fares from Sydney to the Sunshine and Gold coasts starting at $49, all inclusive.
Qantas also flooded the market with discounted tickets, for sale until midnight on December 29, with one-way fares such as Sydney-Brisbane for $49, plus $27, or Sydney-Melbourne for $44, plus $30 in charges.
Determined to convince budget-conscious travellers that it is the cheapest in the market, Jetstar will separate its fares from the taxes and fees charged by airports throughout the sale, as will its parent, Qantas.
A spokesman for Jetstar, Simon Westaway, said the $19 fares did not include the airline's $12 fuel surcharge - imposed to cover the costs of rising crude oil prices - or airport charges, set by Airservices Australia.
"I think most people would look at the airport charges they pay and think they were fairly eyebrow raising," Mr Westaway said.
A Jetstar base fare from Hamilton Island to Sydney is available for $39, but incurs $60 in surcharges and taxes, while a fare from Mackay to Sydney is on sale for $25, with $44 in extras.
"Landing charges and passenger fees vary from airport to airport, and the low-volume airports obviously have higher unit costs, and some people would not realise the differences at airports," Mr Westaway said.
He said Jetstar's decision to advertise "base fares plus taxes and charges" was to remain competitive, ensure air travel was accessible to all passengers and to encourage first-time flyers.
In response, Virgin Blue said that from today it would "regrettably revert its all-inclusive airfare advertising back to a base fare plus taxes and charges format".
The chief executive of Virgin Blue, Brett Godfrey, said he disagreed with the practice because it was a return to a confusing system of excluding charges from fare prices.
"We successfully championed in conjunction with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission a giant leap forward for consumers two years ago, and now that gain has been put aside," he said.
"The decision to do away with the industry practice of inclusive airline pricing is to the detriment of the travelling public."
Caroline Wilkie, of the tourism lobby group TTF Australia, welcomed the cheaper fares.
"Australians have taken to low-cost carriers and are enjoying short trips more frequently," she said. "There is no doubt that discount fares will definitely stimulate the domestic market in 2005."
===========================================
Fri "The Australian"
Pricing mix blurs bargain air fares
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
December 17, 2004
NOT planning too far ahead is about to prove a big plus for late-starting holidaymakers after Jetstar, Virgin Blue and Qantas yesterday released hundreds of thousands of sale fares from as low as $49 one way.
But a move by airlines away from pricing that includes taxes and charges means it could be harder for travellers to work out the best deal.
Qantas and Jetstar have reverted to advertising base fares and taxes separately after Federal Court appeals forced the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to soften its stance on all-inclusive pricing.
Taxes and charges can be as high as $54 on domestic routes - more on international routes - and the ACCC had ruled that an all-inclusive price made it easier for consumers to make comparisons.
Jetstar said it was launching 300,000 sale fares for travel from January 18 to May 31, with prices starting at $19, plus taxes of about $30 on routes such as Sydney to the Gold Coast, Sydney to Melbourne Avalon, Brisbane to Newcastle, and Melbourne to Hobart.
The fares are designed to stimulate travel in the traditionally quiet post-Christmas period.
With taxes included, the sale fares top out at about $149 one-way on Cairns-Melbourne and $129 on Cairns-Sydney, while 21 other destinations come in below $99.
Virgin Blue immediately matched the Jetstar sale by making 500,000 cheap seats available, while Qantas launched a parallel sale with fares starting at about $74 one-way (taxes included) between Sydney and Melbourne and $196 between Sydney and Perth.
Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce announced the fare sale as the low-cost Qantas offshoot welcomed its two millionth passenger.
"Of our 2 million passengers carried to date, over 50 per cent have done so for less than $100," Mr Joyce said.
Virgin announced last night it would reluctantly move away from all-inclusive advertising because of the use of the old pricing system by Qantas and Jetstar.
An ACCC spokeswoman admitted the commission had softened its stance after court appeals against the all-inclusive ruling had twice been successful.
Virgin chief executive Brett Godfrey said the low-fare carrier believed the move away from all-inclusive pricing was lamentable for customers and worked to their detriment.
==========================================
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Just did a search of all three websites, for flights in middle of feb.
Guess who was cheapest and most convenient travelling friday and returning on monday?
You guessed it, the BIG RAT!!
While cheaper flights were available on the other two, the times were most inconvenient, no chance of making a decent weekend.
So I am still not convinced, why do I want to fly with alleged "Low Cost Carriers"? Surely not just for the "eye candy"? Cause there's plenty of that when I get to my destination, why would I ever want to be squeezed into a tin can with 150 thong wearing ferrals?
It is a total farce, we all know that in order to improve the bottom, line yields must be high. So they offer a few cheap seats throughout the day, then charge an exorbitant premium for travelling in the peak!!
If the ACCC really want to do something, instead of worrying about whether fares are advertised with taxes or not, they should do a total audit of all fares and see who the real LCC is! If you excluded business class and compared like with like, I reckon that over a 12 month period, not including the grandstanding $19 and $49 fares, it would be Qantas.
Cheers, HH.
Disclaimer: I am not employed by any of the big 3 airlines, nor have any association with said airlines other than as a fare paying passenger. (aka: punter)
Guess who was cheapest and most convenient travelling friday and returning on monday?
You guessed it, the BIG RAT!!
While cheaper flights were available on the other two, the times were most inconvenient, no chance of making a decent weekend.
So I am still not convinced, why do I want to fly with alleged "Low Cost Carriers"? Surely not just for the "eye candy"? Cause there's plenty of that when I get to my destination, why would I ever want to be squeezed into a tin can with 150 thong wearing ferrals?
It is a total farce, we all know that in order to improve the bottom, line yields must be high. So they offer a few cheap seats throughout the day, then charge an exorbitant premium for travelling in the peak!!
If the ACCC really want to do something, instead of worrying about whether fares are advertised with taxes or not, they should do a total audit of all fares and see who the real LCC is! If you excluded business class and compared like with like, I reckon that over a 12 month period, not including the grandstanding $19 and $49 fares, it would be Qantas.
Cheers, HH.
Disclaimer: I am not employed by any of the big 3 airlines, nor have any association with said airlines other than as a fare paying passenger. (aka: punter)
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There are a couple of reasons for QF being cheaper at that time.
Firstly, QF have around double the flights to VB meaning twice the capacity - twice the seats available to sell.
Secondly, the popular departure and arrival times at the cheap prices are sold out on Jetstar and Virgin.
Whatever the reasons, it is great for the traveller. I wouldn't care who I shared the aircraft with or how they were dressed for these prices.
Firstly, QF have around double the flights to VB meaning twice the capacity - twice the seats available to sell.
Secondly, the popular departure and arrival times at the cheap prices are sold out on Jetstar and Virgin.
Whatever the reasons, it is great for the traveller. I wouldn't care who I shared the aircraft with or how they were dressed for these prices.
Evertonian
Virgin Blue returns to old ways
First I thought this was about them starting to whine again...then I realised I was right!
If they had some intestinal fortitude, they'd stick to their policy of all inclusive fares. Most punters have a brain (amazing isn't it) and they can figure out for themselves who is cheapest so maintain the hgh ground DJ & do what you say is right!
Icarus ever heard of "Drive away, no more to pay"? DJ don't have to copy QF et al if they believe it is wrong.
The rival carrier Virgin Blue has labelled the pricing tactic a "lamentable move for consumers" but has immediately followed suit.
Icarus ever heard of "Drive away, no more to pay"? DJ don't have to copy QF et al if they believe it is wrong.
Howard it has been said before but it is worth repeating.
LOW COST CARRIER refers to the operating cost base of the airline , not the price that they charge for their tickets.
I concur with your fare findings. The big Q is often the cheapest and on long sectors I like the entertainment.
LOW COST CARRIER refers to the operating cost base of the airline , not the price that they charge for their tickets.
I concur with your fare findings. The big Q is often the cheapest and on long sectors I like the entertainment.
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Brett Godfrey you whinging ****. I thought this weasle would have got the message that the aussie publiuc are sick of his whinging antics but no. He just can't help himself. Perhaps if he spent less time whinging and more time watching his bottom line he wouldn't need to whinge. Useless knob. For the sake of everyones sanity.......shut the f%@k up! 
Grandpa Aerotart
Had to laugh the other night while talking to my teenage daughter who is on xmas break in Oz at the moment. I (actually my travel agent sister) booked her Canberra-Brisbane-Sydney on VB because it was $160 cheaper than QF...mid morning flights...what was funny?
I asked her how the flight was and she reckoned the F/O, who was PF, was so fast on finals she had visions of 911...and the landing was....well an arrival.
She thought the FA's were quite ok....but she would, they're probably only, on average, 4 years older than she.
Guess she's been spoilt by Dad's efforts
I asked her how the flight was and she reckoned the F/O, who was PF, was so fast on finals she had visions of 911...and the landing was....well an arrival.
She thought the FA's were quite ok....but she would, they're probably only, on average, 4 years older than she.
Guess she's been spoilt by Dad's efforts
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Oh Tyga
Oh Tyga, Relax bud! People that read this, at times pathetic forum, are not the rest of the public. You my friend are the one with the problem, not the rest of the public. Your profile, from style of writing tells me you are a road rager not capable of controlling ones anger. You call BG a whinger, yet you are the one whinging. Grow up young fella!
Now competition is competition, right or wrong each competitor is doing what it thinks best. At the end of the day the winner is the one still competing. It is sort of like sport, when the opponent throws a punch and contacts the head, you punch back in hope you are left standing.
WHINGE WHINGE WHINGe, oh and I did it without swearing idiot!
Now competition is competition, right or wrong each competitor is doing what it thinks best. At the end of the day the winner is the one still competing. It is sort of like sport, when the opponent throws a punch and contacts the head, you punch back in hope you are left standing.
WHINGE WHINGE WHINGe, oh and I did it without swearing idiot!
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Yair, well thats relevant, chimbu. Your daughter clearly has very well calibrated eyeballs if she can tell from the cabin what the airspeed should be on finals. Also good that she can judge the landing and make a qualified judgement of VB on this basis.
Go back to your tropical rotting stink hole you idiot.
Thanx three bars!
Go back to your tropical rotting stink hole you idiot.
Thanx three bars!
Last edited by Cactus Jack; 21st Dec 2004 at 01:48.
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Thank you 126.7 for your post. And here I was thinking that I was normal and the rest of the world was the problem. It all makes so much sense now!!!
And by the way, I'm not your friend, you don't know how old I am and you don't know me from a bar of soap - my personality or otherwise so just go back to your CTAF.
See, not one hint of a swear word.......idiot
And by the way, I'm not your friend, you don't know how old I am and you don't know me from a bar of soap - my personality or otherwise so just go back to your CTAF.
See, not one hint of a swear word.......idiot
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20 cpl for fuel. Where can I fill up. Prepared to drive across state to fill up. 
How about a re-focus on the flying customer (albeit low paying), instead of the Brett bashing ?
As for;
having worked in sales for a good 8+ years, the average punter DOES NOT have a brain with regards to what they are getting for the money they are paying. All they see is the immediate outflow from their bank account, despite the ultimate end cost; a simple trick that they readily succumb to. Many sales seem to prey on this lack of intelligence! 
From previous internet bookings, the end price WITH the credit card charge is given at the end after one has been through all the searching, selecting....... . Do you cancel this booking and choose another carrier after all that time spent already?
As for DJ following the line of Qantas and Jetstar, it appears that these two (aka ONE big boy??!!) have used their market power to dictate terms. It is a shame that Virgin has not continued to champion the customer, but what is the ACCC for? But if Virgin did continue their inclusive pricing, would they have empty seats, or fewer no thong wearing singlet toting 'holiday makers'. More room for the others....
What about an inclusive price that has the included taxes listed alongside, if the aim is to make the public know what they are paying for.
Bring back the all inclusive price.
Where do I sign up??
Sssshhhhhhhhhhh
How about a re-focus on the flying customer (albeit low paying), instead of the Brett bashing ?
As for;
If they had some intestinal fortitude, they'd stick to their policy of all inclusive fares. Most punters have a brain (amazing isn't it) and they can figure out for themselves who is cheapest so maintain the hgh ground DJ & do what you say is right!
From previous internet bookings, the end price WITH the credit card charge is given at the end after one has been through all the searching, selecting....... . Do you cancel this booking and choose another carrier after all that time spent already?
As for DJ following the line of Qantas and Jetstar, it appears that these two (aka ONE big boy??!!) have used their market power to dictate terms. It is a shame that Virgin has not continued to champion the customer, but what is the ACCC for? But if Virgin did continue their inclusive pricing, would they have empty seats, or fewer no thong wearing singlet toting 'holiday makers'. More room for the others....
What about an inclusive price that has the included taxes listed alongside, if the aim is to make the public know what they are paying for.
Bring back the all inclusive price.
Where do I sign up??
Sssshhhhhhhhhhh
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Thanks Tigga
That is a lot better TIGGA, no swearing. Oh and I forgot size does matter to people like you. My CTAF is excellent, I suppose my Kingair is not as big as your plane though, doesn't go as fast. If ya happy and Know how to use it clap ya hands, clap clap. By the way your comments do show your age.
Grandpa Aerotart
Lighten up whipping boy....reread the post and look at the smileys.
Or better yet do a search and you'll see I'm a VB supporter...have MANY mates flying for VB....good guys all.
As to my (15yr old) daughter...she has spent more time in and around aeroplanes than many who post on this site. Whether it is sitting in the RHS of our Bonanza (or our C185 when she was 4) or sitting in the jumpseat watching me land a B767 (or over the years flying with me in everything from Islanders/C402s/Twin Otters/Bandits/Aerostars/Dash 7s/F28s/Bae146/Falcon 200/C441)...she knows what a normal approach and landing looks and feels like....and that the pilot who does the PA is generally the PF.
To her aeroplanes are far less interesting than cars and boys....she does not sensationalise flying...far from it...that she commented at all was interesting...it must have been some approach and landing.
She wasn't being nasty about it or complaining.
Or better yet do a search and you'll see I'm a VB supporter...have MANY mates flying for VB....good guys all.
As to my (15yr old) daughter...she has spent more time in and around aeroplanes than many who post on this site. Whether it is sitting in the RHS of our Bonanza (or our C185 when she was 4) or sitting in the jumpseat watching me land a B767 (or over the years flying with me in everything from Islanders/C402s/Twin Otters/Bandits/Aerostars/Dash 7s/F28s/Bae146/Falcon 200/C441)...she knows what a normal approach and landing looks and feels like....and that the pilot who does the PA is generally the PF.
To her aeroplanes are far less interesting than cars and boys....she does not sensationalise flying...far from it...that she commented at all was interesting...it must have been some approach and landing.
She wasn't being nasty about it or complaining.
