Read it and weep folks!
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Read it and weep folks!
From The Australian (WA edition) Fri Dec 3, 2004
Credit to Ms Allison for a sound response. I wonder if she stood alone??
Bucks stop at ASIO
PILOTS are facing a new charge of $200 every two years to undergo ASIO security checks after the Aviation Transport Security (Amendment) Bill 2004 passed through federal parliament this week. The Government dismissed concerns raised by Democrats leader Lyn Allison about the cost burden, particularly on general aviation pilots, and what she said was the erosion of civil liberties. Ms Allison argued the fees shopuld be paid by the Government, not pilots.
PILOTS are facing a new charge of $200 every two years to undergo ASIO security checks after the Aviation Transport Security (Amendment) Bill 2004 passed through federal parliament this week. The Government dismissed concerns raised by Democrats leader Lyn Allison about the cost burden, particularly on general aviation pilots, and what she said was the erosion of civil liberties. Ms Allison argued the fees shopuld be paid by the Government, not pilots.
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Forget about the money for a minute. If I'm not mistaken, you arrive at the door of a flying school with your pocket full of money, start taking lessons, but will have to wait up to 3 months to get your student pilot licence. You could be ready for solo in 3 days but you then have to wait forever to go solo.
How can that ever work for the industry. I suppose less people will want to get into the industry so there will be more jobs eventually, but still, IT STINKS!
How can that ever work for the industry. I suppose less people will want to get into the industry so there will be more jobs eventually, but still, IT STINKS!
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Not quite three months wait but still long enough to interfere with training. My No1 son and heir applied for his SPL about two weeks before commencing flight training and had to wait a week or so to go solo because in part he didn't have the licence when ready, and then the Melb wx conspired against him.
Not quite three months wait but still long enough to interfere with training. My No1 son and heir applied for his SPL about two weeks before commencing flight training and had to wait a week or so to go solo because in part he didn't have the licence when ready, and then the Melb wx conspired against him.
One of my students just waited 3 months for a SPL - CASA TW kept sending back the paperwork, asking for something else... and something else... and something else.
I suppose they'll get their act together later...
In the meantime could the one person who voted for the coalition please own up?
I suppose they'll get their act together later...
In the meantime could the one person who voted for the coalition please own up?
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What if you all just ignored it?
Who is checking anyway?
It is another typical piece of the control-syndrome that this federal government just adore. In reality if everyone just didn't fill in the form, ignored it, they wouldn't know what to do because they don't have the resources to police it.
Any government that thinks airplanes are the biggest threat are living the George Bush lie.
Rule by fear! It worked for a certain Austrian..... for a while.
Hey, 45% of you fell for it in October - not that the alternative looked much better at the time.
Who is checking anyway?
It is another typical piece of the control-syndrome that this federal government just adore. In reality if everyone just didn't fill in the form, ignored it, they wouldn't know what to do because they don't have the resources to police it.
Any government that thinks airplanes are the biggest threat are living the George Bush lie.
Rule by fear! It worked for a certain Austrian..... for a while.
Hey, 45% of you fell for it in October - not that the alternative looked much better at the time.
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why are Pilots being singled out with this??? why isn't anyone with a "Heavy Vehicle" Licence being checked as well?? why isn't anyone with a boat licence being checked??
Why because what good is complaining, No security check no work. that's why.
Bet the Yanks would not put up with this Bull!!!!!!!!!!
Why because what good is complaining, No security check no work. that's why.
Bet the Yanks would not put up with this Bull!!!!!!!!!!
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The yanks ARE putting up with this bull and worse. Smart chip passports that can be read surrepticiously from afar, for example.
Maybe boat drivers ARE subject to similar checks. You don't know. But meanwhile we are losing the war and action needs to be taken to reverse this. I think this ASIO check is not the direction, myself. They are penalising the ones they are supposed to be protecting.
Some hard decisions need to be taken and acted upon or we are going to continue to LOSE. No western (democratic) gov't has the political will-power to do it though and so 'they' will eventually win. I give it 100 years, plus or minus a few.
Maybe boat drivers ARE subject to similar checks. You don't know. But meanwhile we are losing the war and action needs to be taken to reverse this. I think this ASIO check is not the direction, myself. They are penalising the ones they are supposed to be protecting.
Some hard decisions need to be taken and acted upon or we are going to continue to LOSE. No western (democratic) gov't has the political will-power to do it though and so 'they' will eventually win. I give it 100 years, plus or minus a few.
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As far As I am aware it is not required in the US or at least when I was licensed 12 months ago it was not. Besides, the lobby groups over there are so strong that this sort of thing would not even get passed around a brew room before one of these groups hit it out of the ball park.
Imagine the train drivers union allowing this to go on? Not likely.
Imagine the train drivers union allowing this to go on? Not likely.
In addition to the security check, as noted above, Student Licence applications now have a SIX PAGE application form. CFIs used to be able to issue them on the spot! They also require addresses that you have lived at for the last ten years. Pretty funny with sixteen year old students.
Remember the Silk Air Captain who decided to put himself his passengers and a company 737 in the river at Palembang? I bet he had a security pass!
We are from the government we are here to help.
Does everyone feel safer now?
Remember the Silk Air Captain who decided to put himself his passengers and a company 737 in the river at Palembang? I bet he had a security pass!
We are from the government we are here to help.
Does everyone feel safer now?
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A complete erosion of civil liberties ... are there really people who believe that 'we' will all be so much safer with these checks?
It's a joke. But no-one's laughing.
give us a break...
One way or the other, people ... we've gotta take a stand against this one.... or we all lose...
What a waste of everyone's time, money and resources...ridiculous ...
It's a joke. But no-one's laughing.
give us a break...
One way or the other, people ... we've gotta take a stand against this one.... or we all lose...
What a waste of everyone's time, money and resources...ridiculous ...
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Better to take a stand against "them"....... they're winning the war despite the way it looks in Afghanistan and Iraq. Ok maybe not Iraq, but at least it looks that way numbers-wise. But overall, we are losng, thus these pathetic shows of action, ie ASIO checks, in the name of "doing something".
They do this for several reasons:
Oh well, we'll be old by then.
They do this for several reasons:
- Control over the people.
- Being seen to be doing something
- Some slight effect on the actual problem (terror).
Oh well, we'll be old by then.
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Speaking to an aquaintance recently who happens to be close to the action, regrettably a lot of pilots could be in for a lot of grief. Investigations and Medical have been putting the processes in place for an expected large number of procecutions for 'False Statements' on the medical disclosure that will surface with the security checks. Drink Drives, breaches of liquor licensing laws, possession of dope in teen days etc.
In the current climate prison sentences are a definate possibility and the I's have been dotted and T,s crossed to build solid no excuses accepted cases.
Australia! Hasn't changed in 200 years.
In the current climate prison sentences are a definate possibility and the I's have been dotted and T,s crossed to build solid no excuses accepted cases.
Australia! Hasn't changed in 200 years.
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Why are we all so surprised?
Why are we ppruners surprised and indignant?
This was discussed on this thread I started almost a year ago!
The proposal was publicised in Australian Aviation, in the friday Australian aviation section, and on the DOTARS website way back in January.
I contacted DOTARS, I wrote a letter to John Anderson protesting the imposition of another licence fee, I raised it with the AFAP who have a stated position on the issue, and I tried to get a few 'professional pilots' interested in the issue via the well-read thread I started and discussions with colleagues.
Those others reading this thread, pissed off with having to pay $200 ---- how many letters did you write, how many phonecalls did you make?
Contrast this situation with the political pressure for change forced by industry groups not happy with Dick Smith's airspace, and the present rollback.
The half a dozen letters sent to the Minister for Transport and the Shadow Minister and local members, is nothing. Like swatting flies. If a few more of the several thousand PPL's CPL's and ATPL's had made a bit more of a fuss, and written some letters, then maybe we wouldn't have a new LAW that slugs us $200.
Cop it sweet.
This was discussed on this thread I started almost a year ago!
The proposal was publicised in Australian Aviation, in the friday Australian aviation section, and on the DOTARS website way back in January.
I contacted DOTARS, I wrote a letter to John Anderson protesting the imposition of another licence fee, I raised it with the AFAP who have a stated position on the issue, and I tried to get a few 'professional pilots' interested in the issue via the well-read thread I started and discussions with colleagues.
Those others reading this thread, pissed off with having to pay $200 ---- how many letters did you write, how many phonecalls did you make?
Contrast this situation with the political pressure for change forced by industry groups not happy with Dick Smith's airspace, and the present rollback.
The half a dozen letters sent to the Minister for Transport and the Shadow Minister and local members, is nothing. Like swatting flies. If a few more of the several thousand PPL's CPL's and ATPL's had made a bit more of a fuss, and written some letters, then maybe we wouldn't have a new LAW that slugs us $200.
Cop it sweet.
Last edited by ITCZ; 3rd Dec 2004 at 05:57.
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..on this thread I started almost .....
Did you do anything of any substance about it back then?
Why are we now being hosed over
with this now??? It's a bit late to look smug now. How about some constructive suggestions instead???