Jetstar Pilots to Join AIPA
Nunc est bibendum
geez Quim, we've had a few already. Sometimes it takes more than a day or three to get the act together. I think I recall the AIPA newsletter from last Friday showing that a bunch of them had asked for forms. I think about 25 is the number which on my thinking is about 18% of the workforce. Thats not bad for the first week or so.
I can guarantee that I'm not that quick at a lot of stuff. Besides, given that it appears that more than 90% of J* guys voted and only about 50% of QF blokes voted, I'd be disappointed if we're slagging off at the J* guys for 'lack of effort'.
For those that join, welcome to AIPA. It isn't always pretty and it certainly isn't perfect but it mostly works.
I can guarantee that I'm not that quick at a lot of stuff. Besides, given that it appears that more than 90% of J* guys voted and only about 50% of QF blokes voted, I'd be disappointed if we're slagging off at the J* guys for 'lack of effort'.
For those that join, welcome to AIPA. It isn't always pretty and it certainly isn't perfect but it mostly works.
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As someone looking in from the outside, I would just like to say "well done guy's/gal's" it's good to see a more united front..
Cheers, HH.
Cheers, HH.
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Does it really matter anymore?
The Howard mob are back in Canberra and this time they control the senate.
By the time Howard and his boys are finished with industrial relations reform union membership will be nothing but a social club.
Better sharpen your negotiating skills boys and girls because when individual contracts start to appear you are going to have to perform.
The Howard mob are back in Canberra and this time they control the senate.
By the time Howard and his boys are finished with industrial relations reform union membership will be nothing but a social club.
Better sharpen your negotiating skills boys and girls because when individual contracts start to appear you are going to have to perform.
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Spinout, you just have to get yourself a shiny jet first and have some potential to take mainline jobs and AIPA will be on your doorstep in a flash!
After all, they couldn't give a stuff about Impulse/Jetstar till it looked like it may affect the motherland.
And the apathy continues with the miserable vote turnout from the troops.
After all, they couldn't give a stuff about Impulse/Jetstar till it looked like it may affect the motherland.
And the apathy continues with the miserable vote turnout from the troops.
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Well Keg, you and I agree on one thing. That is that it was a simply pathetic effort on behalf of the mainline pilots. 50% voted. And then Robin Holt crows about what a good result it was. I'm embarrassed to be a QF pilot and an AIPA member.
But the real thrust of the thread was that the majority of Jetstar pilots haven't come across to AIPA, because they simply aren't interested. And dear old Robin isnt going to tell you that. Because that would be an admision that the MOU served no real purpose other than to accept new woeful conditions and set a very dangerous precedent.
So I will refer back to a question asked by many at the outset of this debacle. Why have the MOU in place if it doesnt attract the Jetstar pilots to camp under our tree?
But the real thrust of the thread was that the majority of Jetstar pilots haven't come across to AIPA, because they simply aren't interested. And dear old Robin isnt going to tell you that. Because that would be an admision that the MOU served no real purpose other than to accept new woeful conditions and set a very dangerous precedent.
So I will refer back to a question asked by many at the outset of this debacle. Why have the MOU in place if it doesnt attract the Jetstar pilots to camp under our tree?
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Another person looking in from the outside...
Why the apathy? Because AIPA doesn’t have much of a bargaining position compared to times past. Individual pilot qualifications, experience and performance appear to bring more to the bargaining table than the AIPA group. So it seems that many pilots would rather trust their own individual negotiating abilities, or if that fails, their ability to take their qualifications elsewhere.
Not saying that is good or bad, just the nature of a growing trend these days. Excellent qualifications and performance appear to engender excellent bargaining positions.
Why the apathy? Because AIPA doesn’t have much of a bargaining position compared to times past. Individual pilot qualifications, experience and performance appear to bring more to the bargaining table than the AIPA group. So it seems that many pilots would rather trust their own individual negotiating abilities, or if that fails, their ability to take their qualifications elsewhere.
Not saying that is good or bad, just the nature of a growing trend these days. Excellent qualifications and performance appear to engender excellent bargaining positions.
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Quim your statement that J* pilots are not interested is load of horsesh1t !
I'll give you a timeline of how one pilots attempt to join goes:
1. Firstly wanted to join when first bought out by QANTAS (enough has been said about that)
2. First road trip about MOU (4,5,6 months ago?) Robin Holt wants us to join. Ring up to get some info. "Can't join yet haven't changed the rules".
3. Two months later. Rules changed now can join, ask again for some info ie % salary, etc.... very basic stuff. 3,4,5 weeks later i get an envelope that contains no info but a lot of forms on how to get the money out of my salary.Nice.
4. Since the MOU was signed off i have been waiting for a welcome to the wonderful world of AIPA info pack that everyone at AIPA keeps telling us is on the way.
Meanwhile we are trying to make an informed decision on who should represent us with absolutely no info from one of the two choices.
As one of my colleagues has said " how quickly can they react to our industrial problems if they can't even get an info pack out"."
There are more of us that would join but not all of us want to join blindly like the "18%" that already have.
Quim if you want more of us to join ring up AIPA and get some info sent out to us.
I'll give you a timeline of how one pilots attempt to join goes:
1. Firstly wanted to join when first bought out by QANTAS (enough has been said about that)
2. First road trip about MOU (4,5,6 months ago?) Robin Holt wants us to join. Ring up to get some info. "Can't join yet haven't changed the rules".
3. Two months later. Rules changed now can join, ask again for some info ie % salary, etc.... very basic stuff. 3,4,5 weeks later i get an envelope that contains no info but a lot of forms on how to get the money out of my salary.Nice.
4. Since the MOU was signed off i have been waiting for a welcome to the wonderful world of AIPA info pack that everyone at AIPA keeps telling us is on the way.
Meanwhile we are trying to make an informed decision on who should represent us with absolutely no info from one of the two choices.
As one of my colleagues has said " how quickly can they react to our industrial problems if they can't even get an info pack out"."
There are more of us that would join but not all of us want to join blindly like the "18%" that already have.
Quim if you want more of us to join ring up AIPA and get some info sent out to us.
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You Jetstrar blokes would do better for yourselves in the TWU. AIPA is basically irrelevant in Qantas. They stuff up everything, DPA, the 76, accommodation, scope, Bscale 737, Jetstar, Regionals, Jetconnect etc and etc. Thats just a short list. I'd need a full page to list the lot.
They did have one win though...seniority for cadets.That was a win, wasn't it?
2farcanard, your experience of AIPA is as good as it gets. Believe what you see.
They did have one win though...seniority for cadets.That was a win, wasn't it?
2farcanard, your experience of AIPA is as good as it gets. Believe what you see.
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Canard, it's not horsesh1t, and for the reasons that you have given, you illustrate clearly why youur colleagues dont want to come across. Why would they? In the end, you aren't blind. I'm certain that you have very nicely summed AIPA up already.
Good luck with getting your info, but dont hold your breath.
And BTW, I would be most pleased to see us all, regionals, VB etc standing under the one umbrella. But then reality strikes, and I can see that it just aint gonna happen. Thats why MOU's like this one really stink!
Good luck with getting your info, but dont hold your breath.
And BTW, I would be most pleased to see us all, regionals, VB etc standing under the one umbrella. But then reality strikes, and I can see that it just aint gonna happen. Thats why MOU's like this one really stink!
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Not sure why these guys haven't given the TWU a go? 
They were great to us in the past and are doing good things for us at the moment at Crapair.....
The best part of the TWU for interested pilots' to call, is the Sydney office on, 02 9912 0700 and ask for someone involved in Aviation.... As long as you guys are prepared to put in some effort, the TWU will react swiftly and professionally for its' members....
All the best
They were great to us in the past and are doing good things for us at the moment at Crapair.....
The best part of the TWU for interested pilots' to call, is the Sydney office on, 02 9912 0700 and ask for someone involved in Aviation.... As long as you guys are prepared to put in some effort, the TWU will react swiftly and professionally for its' members....
All the best
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The general trend with online forums, is that those with the strongest opinions are the most vocal.
Whether we like it or don't (and we're all much faster to point out the specifics of what we don't like), AIPA remains the largest aviation union in the country, and represents almost completely the Qantas pilot mainline pilot group. This Jetstar issue has highlighted the significant shortfalls of a narrow 'mainline only' approach, and will hopefully lead to wider representation for all, and a greater, balanced influence.
Continuing to segregate pilot groups into the AIPA, IPC, AFAP, and TWU, and actively suggesting pilots make a move to another union is only going to perpetuate the same sort of divisive issues that AIPA has faced over Jetstar.
Whether we like it or don't (and we're all much faster to point out the specifics of what we don't like), AIPA remains the largest aviation union in the country, and represents almost completely the Qantas pilot mainline pilot group. This Jetstar issue has highlighted the significant shortfalls of a narrow 'mainline only' approach, and will hopefully lead to wider representation for all, and a greater, balanced influence.
Continuing to segregate pilot groups into the AIPA, IPC, AFAP, and TWU, and actively suggesting pilots make a move to another union is only going to perpetuate the same sort of divisive issues that AIPA has faced over Jetstar.
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These days you want some strength. AIPA has zero. The company treats them with contempt and has done for ages. With such an apathetic membership its no wonder.
All the QF drivers would do far better resigning en masse from AIPA and getting into the TWU. Only trouble is they are too apathetic so will continue to get regularly rogered by management.
Anyone remember all the hoo haa at the SGM last year about the LCC?
Lines in the sand and all that.
What happened...nothing...the company did us like a dinner and all under the watchful eye of AIPA. We ended up with a two bob MOU and half the membership were so concerned about the future that they couldn't even be bothered to vote!
All the QF drivers would do far better resigning en masse from AIPA and getting into the TWU. Only trouble is they are too apathetic so will continue to get regularly rogered by management.
Anyone remember all the hoo haa at the SGM last year about the LCC?
Lines in the sand and all that.
What happened...nothing...the company did us like a dinner and all under the watchful eye of AIPA. We ended up with a two bob MOU and half the membership were so concerned about the future that they couldn't even be bothered to vote!
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Got to agree with Bonvol.
The AIPA Com only wants other pilot bodies within the QF group on board in order to control them.
The company of course would love this too.
Proof of the pudding: AIPA does not look after existing LH pilots with the exception of the very senior, QED why will they look after the regionals / Jet* ect any better ?
"Everything that has a beginning has an end"
The AIPA Com only wants other pilot bodies within the QF group on board in order to control them.
The company of course would love this too.
Proof of the pudding: AIPA does not look after existing LH pilots with the exception of the very senior, QED why will they look after the regionals / Jet* ect any better ?
"Everything that has a beginning has an end"
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I am starting to form the opinion that you bonvol, quim and matirx (whatever that is) are all one and the same.
Same prose, same stupidity, same cowardice etc etc.
A tough bloke like you should put your big balls on AIPA COM and inspire the members towards your vision for the future. But maybe you did, didn't like the heat and resigned after one day. Is that you?
Pprune - the cowards forum for schoolkids, has beens, wannabes and no hopers. Unfortunately the few sensible contributors are drowned out by the boofheads.
God help Pilots, because these nutbags won't!!!!
Same prose, same stupidity, same cowardice etc etc.
A tough bloke like you should put your big balls on AIPA COM and inspire the members towards your vision for the future. But maybe you did, didn't like the heat and resigned after one day. Is that you?
Pprune - the cowards forum for schoolkids, has beens, wannabes and no hopers. Unfortunately the few sensible contributors are drowned out by the boofheads.
God help Pilots, because these nutbags won't!!!!