Song and dance over 'ageist' Virgin
Join Date: Sep 2003
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C'mon sweetie lets cut thru' the cr@p. This aint about Virgin Blue discriminatin' against you and the other chooks because youse were too old is it.
It's about youse tryin to force Virgin Blue to take ya on because of yer age - or at least ta try ta get some moolah out of 'em.
What's the bettin that on the day youse looked around at all the lovely young things, an in the way that wimmen do the cattyness and jealousy flaired inside ya because yer thought to yerselves "How can we old chooks compete with these stunners?".
Be honest girls. I means ta say what are the other sheilas who failed gunna do? Sue 'em because they reckon VB think their ugly?
Be seein' youse round.
It's about youse tryin to force Virgin Blue to take ya on because of yer age - or at least ta try ta get some moolah out of 'em.
What's the bettin that on the day youse looked around at all the lovely young things, an in the way that wimmen do the cattyness and jealousy flaired inside ya because yer thought to yerselves "How can we old chooks compete with these stunners?".
Be honest girls. I means ta say what are the other sheilas who failed gunna do? Sue 'em because they reckon VB think their ugly?
Be seein' youse round.
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Anflygirl,
I trained one of your number back when, and distinctly remember asking,when meal service had ended, said person go back to cabin and do P.R. The reply was "I'm not going to talk to someone I don't know". May I suggest D.J. picked up this attitude in the interview?!
If you wish to see what REAL OLD BOILERS are all about, come to
a Down to Earth lunch; WE OLD BOILERS have Class.
Think back to the "conditions" of employment that AN hired you under initially.
I trained one of your number back when, and distinctly remember asking,when meal service had ended, said person go back to cabin and do P.R. The reply was "I'm not going to talk to someone I don't know". May I suggest D.J. picked up this attitude in the interview?!
If you wish to see what REAL OLD BOILERS are all about, come to
a Down to Earth lunch; WE OLD BOILERS have Class.
Think back to the "conditions" of employment that AN hired you under initially.
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I flew with Anflygirl at Ansett and with her at her current airline.
Not only is she drop dead gorgeous (and numerous very young pilots would agree. Her age never seemed to deter them knocking on her door on overnights), she has a dynamic personality and very much a "can do" attitude. Her ability to motivate people is second to none, and I am very proud to call her my friend.
You gentlemen ( used because I was initially employed in the airline industry, when pilots were gentlemen) seem to forget the likes of Elle Macpherson, Claudia Schiffer, Nicole Kidman, Kylie Minogue, Princess Caroline, Sandra Bullock, Andie Macdowell, Demi Moore ....and the list goes on.
By my definition not old boilers but all in my age bracket.
Age does not always make a woman unattractive.
These girls are not demanding Virgin employ women over 35 they are asking that they employ a cross section of age groups.
So let's not turn this into a slanging match and focus on the facts.
I was rejected 3 times before finally being accepted.
Not only is she drop dead gorgeous (and numerous very young pilots would agree. Her age never seemed to deter them knocking on her door on overnights), she has a dynamic personality and very much a "can do" attitude. Her ability to motivate people is second to none, and I am very proud to call her my friend.
You gentlemen ( used because I was initially employed in the airline industry, when pilots were gentlemen) seem to forget the likes of Elle Macpherson, Claudia Schiffer, Nicole Kidman, Kylie Minogue, Princess Caroline, Sandra Bullock, Andie Macdowell, Demi Moore ....and the list goes on.
By my definition not old boilers but all in my age bracket.
Age does not always make a woman unattractive.
These girls are not demanding Virgin employ women over 35 they are asking that they employ a cross section of age groups.
So let's not turn this into a slanging match and focus on the facts.
I was rejected 3 times before finally being accepted.
Last edited by cabin secure; 25th Aug 2004 at 04:06.
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A small agency who I work for that hires promotional girls for various events has lost 33 girls to Virgin Blue in the last 3 years. All these girls are in the 18-25 age bracket. She hates VB because they 'poach all her staff.'
If that is anything to go by than its true, VB are age-ist. But as RTA has said, How can you prove you were rejected on age?
An interesting topic I must say!
If that is anything to go by than its true, VB are age-ist. But as RTA has said, How can you prove you were rejected on age?
An interesting topic I must say!
Wow, I've been offline for a week or so and look at what I've been missing out on.
My two bucks worth, Best wishes to the ladies with your case and I sincerely hope it goes in your favour. I would much rather see one of you welcoming me onboard than most of the current VB FA's
.
I could go on with why I think you are the perfect choices for the positions but then you might think I'm a naughty little boy
.
Give em heaps, hoss
My two bucks worth, Best wishes to the ladies with your case and I sincerely hope it goes in your favour. I would much rather see one of you welcoming me onboard than most of the current VB FA's
. I could go on with why I think you are the perfect choices for the positions but then you might think I'm a naughty little boy
.Give em heaps, hoss
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All these girls are in the 18-25 age bracket. She hates VB because they 'poach all her staff.'
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Touche Desert Dingo, touche!
The question I have, as has been already posted here but not answered (understandably possibly due to these facts being needed in court) is on what factual basis these claims are based? Someone has already said that at the time these girls applied there was no crew older than a certain age (I cant recall exactly what it was), but is that enough to base a claim on? As someone else already said here, unless they were told "yes you would be great for the job, but sorry you are too old" then I am struggling to think on what basis their claim is based?
This is a genuine question by the way, not a dig at the complainants...
Its interesting to note that Gulf Air have just announced they are accepting applications for Flight Attendants. Following is a quote directly from the Gulf Air Website:
Now if THATS not basis for a discrimnation case, I dont know what is. But, they are in the UAE, where we all know laws etc are different. But clearly that is direct and in-disputable discrimination based on sex - whereas there has been no factual evidence provided (to the readers of this forum anyway) that Virgin Blue did not employ these applicants based 100% solely on their age.
(edited to include Gulf Air comments, as this was discovered after initial post was made)
The question I have, as has been already posted here but not answered (understandably possibly due to these facts being needed in court) is on what factual basis these claims are based? Someone has already said that at the time these girls applied there was no crew older than a certain age (I cant recall exactly what it was), but is that enough to base a claim on? As someone else already said here, unless they were told "yes you would be great for the job, but sorry you are too old" then I am struggling to think on what basis their claim is based?
This is a genuine question by the way, not a dig at the complainants...
Its interesting to note that Gulf Air have just announced they are accepting applications for Flight Attendants. Following is a quote directly from the Gulf Air Website:
If you are female and interested in joining Gulf Air as a Flight Attendant please apply now
(edited to include Gulf Air comments, as this was discovered after initial post was made)
Last edited by sinala1; 26th Aug 2004 at 07:30.
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Saying that there was only x amount of FA's over the age of X at a certain date is certainly not something you can base a case on but is definately an indication of what is really going on.
I am surprised more drivers are not in support of these FA's. Lets face it, it is probably only about 15 years since drivers over 30 were considered too old for the Airlines full stop. And this driver age discrimination still goes on a reasonable amount, although not much at Virgin I believe. Just ask any driver over about 32 that does not have 5,000hrs. and a space shuttle endorsement.
I don't get it.
Why is it OK to be 23 with 1,000hrs.TT, 250 twin but if you are say, over 30 with 2,000TT, 500 twin, often you are considered resume not competitive or some other legally neutral comment.
All other things being equal, what's the difference? The only thing not competitive is the ink on the date of birth part of your resume.
We have a guy at work who got his CPL a couple of years back at 36. His former experence was driving large earth moving equipment, which he still does cause he gets paid so much in GA. His flying skills are excellent and his general approach to all things mechanical/managerial etc. etc. is better than most. But it all don't mean jack $hit to the airlines, because he aint 25.
Good luck girls
I am surprised more drivers are not in support of these FA's. Lets face it, it is probably only about 15 years since drivers over 30 were considered too old for the Airlines full stop. And this driver age discrimination still goes on a reasonable amount, although not much at Virgin I believe. Just ask any driver over about 32 that does not have 5,000hrs. and a space shuttle endorsement.
I don't get it.
Why is it OK to be 23 with 1,000hrs.TT, 250 twin but if you are say, over 30 with 2,000TT, 500 twin, often you are considered resume not competitive or some other legally neutral comment.
All other things being equal, what's the difference? The only thing not competitive is the ink on the date of birth part of your resume.
We have a guy at work who got his CPL a couple of years back at 36. His former experence was driving large earth moving equipment, which he still does cause he gets paid so much in GA. His flying skills are excellent and his general approach to all things mechanical/managerial etc. etc. is better than most. But it all don't mean jack $hit to the airlines, because he aint 25.
Good luck girls
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Not only is she drop dead gorgeous (and numerous very young pilots would agree. Her age never seemed to deter them knocking on her door on overnights), she has a dynamic personality and very much a "can do" attitude. Her ability to motivate people is second to none, and I am very proud to call her my friend.
These girls are not demanding Virgin employ women over 35 they are asking that they employ a cross section of age groups.
No offence meant - and purely for example - but to take this to the ridiculous (which it does seem it is, anyway) - are redheads/brunetttes/bald/short/fat/tall people all going to demand that each group is represented?
As I stated earlier on, the ONLY real measure of assuring absolute non-discrimination is to make application to a "non-discrimination" company using a neutral gender name - no birth dates/age and gender supplied - and have someone attend the interview for you...in fact, have the same person be the spokesperson for ALL the applicants.
That, imho, would then mean the selection committee would have to choose the applicant SOLELY on merit, and that they wouldn't see (or hear) whom they were getting until the start of training.
As Oz ocker stated, this court case appears to have been instigated because,
It's about youse (sic) tryin to force Virgin Blue to take ya on because of yer age
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I was told by one female VBer they were "advised" on their course to wear a certain type of underwear when flying so as to best show off their assets.
She seemed a bit piqued but it appeared honest...
Anyone else know of the VB unwritten G-string policy?
She seemed a bit piqued but it appeared honest...
Anyone else know of the VB unwritten G-string policy?
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As we all know, most aircraft don't crash - almost all FAs end their career not actually having to deal with an emergency. What they do have to deal with, every day, is the pax. And VB is looking for a service attitude - safety procedures can after all can be taught.
They much prefer candidates who have experience as nurses and teachers (used to caring for people...). I think VB believes it enhances the quality of the pax's flight.
They much prefer candidates who have experience as nurses and teachers (used to caring for people...). I think VB believes it enhances the quality of the pax's flight.
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Virgin Bashing
one airline for vapid, buxom, horny young bimboids...... (Virgin)
Anyone who can remember the Cabin Prep drill, Evacuation drill, and the 5 different Initial and Evacuation command drills IS NO BIMBOID.
An interesting topic because if it walks, talks, and looks like a duck...I do sympathise with these women, and the men also out there who may feel the same.
Tony Marks, CEO of Pacific Blue, makes an important point though:
"We don't prevent people from performing a song or dance during the interviews, but it is not a requirement," he said.
Just in case you've missed it again there is NO REQUIREMENT to do a 'song and dance' at a Virgin interview. The task is for each group to make up an advertisement or destination promotion for Virgin/Pacific Blue. How people do it is up to them, but many people CHOOSE, without prompting, to turn it into a song and dance number. If the participants CHOOSE to make it a song and dance, then there will obviously be some who shine, and some who don't. But, equally, some may have done better in the other activities.
The role of Flight Attendant is just not as appealing to many as it used to be, and anyone who goes to assessment days nowadays will be able to tell you that the majority of applicants are in their 20s and late teens. For many the job has unfortunately become a gap filler before uni, or after. Those of us who have 'the bug' are becoming fewer. Those who want to make it a career do so at the expense of financial security or the likelihood of ever owning their own home.
"They (Qantas) were extremely professional and they asked me things that were extremely relevant," she said.
Having had panel interviews with both DJ and QF, I found them quite comparable, with the Virgin interview being far more intense, and slightly interrogatory.
The only difference ultimately, was that the job Virgin advertised came through, whereas the job Qantas shortlisted me for, was a complete fabrication.
Now who's the more professional recruiter?
Anyone who can remember the Cabin Prep drill, Evacuation drill, and the 5 different Initial and Evacuation command drills IS NO BIMBOID.
An interesting topic because if it walks, talks, and looks like a duck...I do sympathise with these women, and the men also out there who may feel the same.
Tony Marks, CEO of Pacific Blue, makes an important point though:
"We don't prevent people from performing a song or dance during the interviews, but it is not a requirement," he said.
Just in case you've missed it again there is NO REQUIREMENT to do a 'song and dance' at a Virgin interview. The task is for each group to make up an advertisement or destination promotion for Virgin/Pacific Blue. How people do it is up to them, but many people CHOOSE, without prompting, to turn it into a song and dance number. If the participants CHOOSE to make it a song and dance, then there will obviously be some who shine, and some who don't. But, equally, some may have done better in the other activities.
The role of Flight Attendant is just not as appealing to many as it used to be, and anyone who goes to assessment days nowadays will be able to tell you that the majority of applicants are in their 20s and late teens. For many the job has unfortunately become a gap filler before uni, or after. Those of us who have 'the bug' are becoming fewer. Those who want to make it a career do so at the expense of financial security or the likelihood of ever owning their own home.
"They (Qantas) were extremely professional and they asked me things that were extremely relevant," she said.
Having had panel interviews with both DJ and QF, I found them quite comparable, with the Virgin interview being far more intense, and slightly interrogatory.
The only difference ultimately, was that the job Virgin advertised came through, whereas the job Qantas shortlisted me for, was a complete fabrication.
Now who's the more professional recruiter?
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Messen Zeit für Bett jetzt Schweinhund. Es gibt einen guten Jungen.
When you are grown up enough to admit WHY you have such a vehement hatred of DJ, please let us all know. Meanwhile, your purility is rather tedious.
Gute Nacht mein voreingenommener Freund.
When you are grown up enough to admit WHY you have such a vehement hatred of DJ, please let us all know. Meanwhile, your purility is rather tedious.
Gute Nacht mein voreingenommener Freund.