Plane missing, six feared dead
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Who is Matthew McAleer and what experience does this ex-military pilot have with the Cheyenne II??????
Believe nothing of what you read and only half of what you hear.
A mate of mine in NQ said that an ex-Queensland policeman and his daughter were also on board. Many QPS officers quite upset this afternoon.
My heartfelt condolences to the family of those on board.
Believe nothing of what you read and only half of what you hear.
A mate of mine in NQ said that an ex-Queensland policeman and his daughter were also on board. Many QPS officers quite upset this afternoon.
My heartfelt condolences to the family of those on board.
Props are for boats!
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My condolences to all concerned.
CS I suspect that AUSAR may require some media interface, if its employees arent qualified to make accurate comments, or just dont make any comments at all until preliminary ATSB investigations have taken place. There is s time and place to say things but straight after the incident is heartless and gutless in my books. Lets not turn Australia into the Gaudy MEDIA CIRCUS of the U.S.A.
SHEEP
P.S. Gaunty Read your piece. But do we know how the SAS works?
CS I suspect that AUSAR may require some media interface, if its employees arent qualified to make accurate comments, or just dont make any comments at all until preliminary ATSB investigations have taken place. There is s time and place to say things but straight after the incident is heartless and gutless in my books. Lets not turn Australia into the Gaudy MEDIA CIRCUS of the U.S.A.
SHEEP
P.S. Gaunty Read your piece. But do we know how the SAS works?
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Kerry Endicott?
Is this Kerry the one that used to be at Navair in the late 70's with John Taylor,Ray Clamback and Aminta Hennesey?
If so he was a very experienced person and well known in the industry.
A very sad day.
If so he was a very experienced person and well known in the industry.
A very sad day.
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Fri "The Australian"
Crash plane lost way in detour for a lunch
By Gosia Kaszubska and Jesse Scott
July 30, 2004
A PLAN by six friends to tack lunch to the end of a business trip that ended in tragedy when their plane crashed into a hillside, may have struck problems with a navigational system.
Australian Transport Safety Bureau investigator Alex Hood said the Piper Cheyenne was up to 28km off course when it exploded on impact near Benalla in northeast Victoria about 11am on Wednesday.
Mr Hood said problems with the aircraft's navigational system was one of the "many lines of investigation" being followed by the bureau.
Killed in the crash were pilot Kerry Endicott, company director Robert Henderson, 62, his daughter Jacquie 33, her husband and RAAF helicopter pilot Alan Stark, 27, friend Belinda Andrews, 33, and Qantas jumbo jet pilot Geoff Brockie, 37.
The plane was flying to Benalla Airfield from Sydney's Bankstown Airport in low cloud and rain and Mr Endicott had told air traffic control he planned to land using his navigation instruments.
"The approach to the Benalla Airfield is well to the north of here," Mr Hood said near the crash site yesterday.
"Certainly there is no reason we've determined at this stage why the aircraft should be this far south or at the height it was flying," he said.
The plane crashed half way up a 150m hill in rugged, steep terrain that hampered efforts by police to recover the bodies of the pilot and passengers.
Robert Henderson's niece, Melinda Henderson, said the weekly inspection flight was so standard it was almost a commute. She described Mr Endicott as a life-long lover of planes with over 20,000 flying hours to his name, 1500 of them in the Piper PA-31T Cheyenne.
"He was a quiet guy. He took very good care of his airplane," she said.
Ms Henderson said the close group of friends were flying down for their weekly inspection of one of the family-owned manufacturing plants and then planned to visit local vineyards and grab lunch.
=========================================
Crash plane lost way in detour for a lunch
By Gosia Kaszubska and Jesse Scott
July 30, 2004
A PLAN by six friends to tack lunch to the end of a business trip that ended in tragedy when their plane crashed into a hillside, may have struck problems with a navigational system.
Australian Transport Safety Bureau investigator Alex Hood said the Piper Cheyenne was up to 28km off course when it exploded on impact near Benalla in northeast Victoria about 11am on Wednesday.
Mr Hood said problems with the aircraft's navigational system was one of the "many lines of investigation" being followed by the bureau.
Killed in the crash were pilot Kerry Endicott, company director Robert Henderson, 62, his daughter Jacquie 33, her husband and RAAF helicopter pilot Alan Stark, 27, friend Belinda Andrews, 33, and Qantas jumbo jet pilot Geoff Brockie, 37.
The plane was flying to Benalla Airfield from Sydney's Bankstown Airport in low cloud and rain and Mr Endicott had told air traffic control he planned to land using his navigation instruments.
"The approach to the Benalla Airfield is well to the north of here," Mr Hood said near the crash site yesterday.
"Certainly there is no reason we've determined at this stage why the aircraft should be this far south or at the height it was flying," he said.
The plane crashed half way up a 150m hill in rugged, steep terrain that hampered efforts by police to recover the bodies of the pilot and passengers.
Robert Henderson's niece, Melinda Henderson, said the weekly inspection flight was so standard it was almost a commute. She described Mr Endicott as a life-long lover of planes with over 20,000 flying hours to his name, 1500 of them in the Piper PA-31T Cheyenne.
"He was a quiet guy. He took very good care of his airplane," she said.
Ms Henderson said the close group of friends were flying down for their weekly inspection of one of the family-owned manufacturing plants and then planned to visit local vineyards and grab lunch.
=========================================
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Hmmm - thanks for above info Wirraway.
Methinks someone who has been very vocal in this thread owes the good Farmer Shanley an apology - but I'm not holding my breath.
compressor stall over to you
Australian Transport Safety Bureau investigator Alex Hood said the Piper Cheyenne was up to 28km off course
:Richard Shanley, a farmer living in Myrrhee Valley, specu lated the plane may have been off course because the flight path for smaller aircraft on the Sydney-to-Benalla route is usually further to the north of his property.
What crap. How would he know what initial waypoint the pilot was using on the GPSNPA?
What crap. How would he know what initial waypoint the pilot was using on the GPSNPA?
compressor stall over to you
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RIP
Tis is another one that should not have happened.
One doesn't get a second chance with a "rock filled cloud".
Drove through the area a few hours before.
Low cloud covered the ridges and any attempt to maintain visual under was marginal in a car.
Wrong co-ordinates on GPS most likely.
Tis is another one that should not have happened.
One doesn't get a second chance with a "rock filled cloud".
Drove through the area a few hours before.
Low cloud covered the ridges and any attempt to maintain visual under was marginal in a car.
Wrong co-ordinates on GPS most likely.
Hi Bon Giorno,
Have you ever deviated off track for a legitmate reason?
Mr Shanley would be correct saying that Syd-Bla traffic would use the more northern waypoints (being more direct) but that the aircraft was near the southern waypoint does not mean that it was off course.
Even if the pilot was "off course" the MSA for that sector (assuming it was in the 25nm arc, and I don't have my WACs handy for the LSALTs outside) was 5000'
Look at the profile for the BLA 26GPS - one cannot decend below 2000' (rough accident height) until after the FAF (at about 4.1nm)!
The fact that Mr Shanley's statement (not Mr Shanley himself) is 'crap' is referring to:
1. There might have been a legitimate reason that the pilot was there - thus he was not off course
2. The polemic structure of the newspaper article - structuring random quotes and rumours to suggest the pilot/gps was lost when there are plenty of other theoretical causes
3. The irrelevance of the fact that if he was off track, then that in itself should not have lead to the impact.
I am in no way connected with the pilot or company. What I object to is the fact that media and some of our own are suggesting that the pilot has made a mistake.
Please give him the presumption of "not to blame", and await the official report.
Regards
CS
Have you ever deviated off track for a legitmate reason?
Mr Shanley would be correct saying that Syd-Bla traffic would use the more northern waypoints (being more direct) but that the aircraft was near the southern waypoint does not mean that it was off course.
Even if the pilot was "off course" the MSA for that sector (assuming it was in the 25nm arc, and I don't have my WACs handy for the LSALTs outside) was 5000'
Look at the profile for the BLA 26GPS - one cannot decend below 2000' (rough accident height) until after the FAF (at about 4.1nm)!
The fact that Mr Shanley's statement (not Mr Shanley himself) is 'crap' is referring to:
1. There might have been a legitimate reason that the pilot was there - thus he was not off course
2. The polemic structure of the newspaper article - structuring random quotes and rumours to suggest the pilot/gps was lost when there are plenty of other theoretical causes
3. The irrelevance of the fact that if he was off track, then that in itself should not have lead to the impact.
I am in no way connected with the pilot or company. What I object to is the fact that media and some of our own are suggesting that the pilot has made a mistake.
Please give him the presumption of "not to blame", and await the official report.
Regards
CS
Last edited by compressor stall; 30th Jul 2004 at 02:53.
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OK people.
Lets keep this professional shall we.
Comments like;
may be useful and if Milt has aviation qualifications are best copied to the ATSB as well.
throw away lines in the manner of
are not.
Bon Giorno makes a telling point.
So please think carefully about the what and it's possible effect on the families before you post.
The how, will if it is possible, be revealed in the fullness of time.
That 6 people have been lost is a tragedy, that 4 of them were respected and competent brother pilots should attract our professional attention. They would fully understand our interest and desire to discuss it to the fullest extent possible, but not to the detriment of their non- pilot friends on board.
There is a separate thread now running where a "technical discussion" has been raised from a comment by a poster here.
Lets keep this professional shall we.
Comments like;
Drove through the area a few hours before.
Low cloud covered the ridges and any attempt to maintain visual under was marginal in a car.
Low cloud covered the ridges and any attempt to maintain visual under was marginal in a car.
throw away lines in the manner of
Wrong co-ordinates on GPS most likely.
Bon Giorno makes a telling point.
So please think carefully about the what and it's possible effect on the families before you post.
The how, will if it is possible, be revealed in the fullness of time.
That 6 people have been lost is a tragedy, that 4 of them were respected and competent brother pilots should attract our professional attention. They would fully understand our interest and desire to discuss it to the fullest extent possible, but not to the detriment of their non- pilot friends on board.
There is a separate thread now running where a "technical discussion" has been raised from a comment by a poster here.
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Fri "Herald Sun"
Elite chopper pilots among dead
By Holly Ife, Chloe Adams, Mark Buttler and Paul Anderson
July 30, 2004
TWO members of the elite Black Hawk military helicopter regiment were among the six people killed in an air tragedy in Victoria's northeast.
Pilot Alan Stark and mate Geoff Brockie died together in the twin-engine Piper Cheyenne, which crashed and burned on Wednesday in remote bushland. The pair served together in the Australian Defence Force regiment's Townsville barracks.
It is not known whether they were attached to the regiment in June 1996, when two of its helicopters crashed in a night exercise, killing 18 men.
Mr Brockie has also worked as an international pilot for Qantas.
Mr Stark's wife Jacqueline Henderson and her best friend Belinda Andrews also died in the crash as did Jacqueline's father Robert Henderson and pilot Kerry Endicott.
The group flew south to Benalla from Sydney's Bankstown Airport, with plans to visit the area's famous winery region.
It is believed the close-knit group had no warning of the unfolding disaster as Mr Endicott piloted them through foul weather.
Crash investigators said yesterday the damage was so bad they may never be able to pin down the cause of the accident at Myrrhee, 33km southeast of Wangaratta.
The bodies had not been retrieved as darkness fell last night.
David Henderson Jr, son of Robert Henderson's brother and business partner David, said the family was devastated. "Everyone's in tremendous pain," he said.
"We are emotionally numb. The fact that we waited with bated breath yesterday makes it even harder. It's devastating.
"From what I'm told they wouldn't have been able to see anything. They were probably chatting one second and gone the next. Dad's not only lost his only brother but a long-time friend and business partner of 40 years.
"He was his best mate. It's even harder for Robert's children and wife."
Mr Henderson, in his early 60s, flew only twice a year to Benalla, where his successful particleboard company has a factory.
Mr Endicott flew there each week. Mr Henderson Jr made the same trip with Mr Endicott a day earlier. "It makes it all the harder to understand," he said. "We had similar weather that day, too, but Kerry knew the terrain and the aircraft intimately. He had landed there 1000 times.
"He was a great pilot who had flown all his life. I had absolute faith in his ability. He was the company's full-time pilot for more than 10 years."
Mrs Andrews, a wife and mother of two, and Jacqueline Henderson were friends at school.
Mrs Andrews' husband said he was too upset to comment on the tragic loss of his wife.
Ms Henderson and Mr Stark had this week travelled to Sydney from their home in Mackay, Queensland, to see family.
Myrrhee school bus driver Ron Moorhead was deeply upset by what he saw at the scene.
"It's terribly sad for the loss of life," he said.
Mr Moorhead had just returned from dropping the last students home about 5.30pm when he heard on the radio reports of the missing plane. "I thought since it was right in this neck of the woods I'd look out for it," he said. "I could see the smoke through the trees and the paramedics' helicopter was right overhead."
Coroner Graeme Johnstone arrived at search headquarters about 1.30pm. He was briefed by emergency services in the Myrrhee Soldiers Memorial Hall before joining Australian Transport Safety Bureau inspectors at the crash site.
State Emergency Service volunteers cut a fresh track into the area, because of the inhospitable terrain and dense bush.
Debris was spread 100m from the site, and rain and fog made the task difficult for the inspectors and emergency services.
ATSB crash investigator Alex Hood said his team had completed a preliminary survey.
He said it was too early to comment on reasons for the crash and fire had destroyed vital evidence.
Herald Sun
===========================================
Elite chopper pilots among dead
By Holly Ife, Chloe Adams, Mark Buttler and Paul Anderson
July 30, 2004
TWO members of the elite Black Hawk military helicopter regiment were among the six people killed in an air tragedy in Victoria's northeast.
Pilot Alan Stark and mate Geoff Brockie died together in the twin-engine Piper Cheyenne, which crashed and burned on Wednesday in remote bushland. The pair served together in the Australian Defence Force regiment's Townsville barracks.
It is not known whether they were attached to the regiment in June 1996, when two of its helicopters crashed in a night exercise, killing 18 men.
Mr Brockie has also worked as an international pilot for Qantas.
Mr Stark's wife Jacqueline Henderson and her best friend Belinda Andrews also died in the crash as did Jacqueline's father Robert Henderson and pilot Kerry Endicott.
The group flew south to Benalla from Sydney's Bankstown Airport, with plans to visit the area's famous winery region.
It is believed the close-knit group had no warning of the unfolding disaster as Mr Endicott piloted them through foul weather.
Crash investigators said yesterday the damage was so bad they may never be able to pin down the cause of the accident at Myrrhee, 33km southeast of Wangaratta.
The bodies had not been retrieved as darkness fell last night.
David Henderson Jr, son of Robert Henderson's brother and business partner David, said the family was devastated. "Everyone's in tremendous pain," he said.
"We are emotionally numb. The fact that we waited with bated breath yesterday makes it even harder. It's devastating.
"From what I'm told they wouldn't have been able to see anything. They were probably chatting one second and gone the next. Dad's not only lost his only brother but a long-time friend and business partner of 40 years.
"He was his best mate. It's even harder for Robert's children and wife."
Mr Henderson, in his early 60s, flew only twice a year to Benalla, where his successful particleboard company has a factory.
Mr Endicott flew there each week. Mr Henderson Jr made the same trip with Mr Endicott a day earlier. "It makes it all the harder to understand," he said. "We had similar weather that day, too, but Kerry knew the terrain and the aircraft intimately. He had landed there 1000 times.
"He was a great pilot who had flown all his life. I had absolute faith in his ability. He was the company's full-time pilot for more than 10 years."
Mrs Andrews, a wife and mother of two, and Jacqueline Henderson were friends at school.
Mrs Andrews' husband said he was too upset to comment on the tragic loss of his wife.
Ms Henderson and Mr Stark had this week travelled to Sydney from their home in Mackay, Queensland, to see family.
Myrrhee school bus driver Ron Moorhead was deeply upset by what he saw at the scene.
"It's terribly sad for the loss of life," he said.
Mr Moorhead had just returned from dropping the last students home about 5.30pm when he heard on the radio reports of the missing plane. "I thought since it was right in this neck of the woods I'd look out for it," he said. "I could see the smoke through the trees and the paramedics' helicopter was right overhead."
Coroner Graeme Johnstone arrived at search headquarters about 1.30pm. He was briefed by emergency services in the Myrrhee Soldiers Memorial Hall before joining Australian Transport Safety Bureau inspectors at the crash site.
State Emergency Service volunteers cut a fresh track into the area, because of the inhospitable terrain and dense bush.
Debris was spread 100m from the site, and rain and fog made the task difficult for the inspectors and emergency services.
ATSB crash investigator Alex Hood said his team had completed a preliminary survey.
He said it was too early to comment on reasons for the crash and fire had destroyed vital evidence.
Herald Sun
===========================================
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Look, GPS, IFR or VFR, NPA or otherwise, there is no debate. It has happened.
Leave it to the good people who are qualified and employed to determine and "debate" and stop this hurtful and meaningless banter.
Leave it alone, 6 souls have been lost and whatever the reason, it is a tragedy.
Just leave it alone. Respect the rights of those lost and those who mourn.
Leave it to the good people who are qualified and employed to determine and "debate" and stop this hurtful and meaningless banter.
Leave it alone, 6 souls have been lost and whatever the reason, it is a tragedy.
Just leave it alone. Respect the rights of those lost and those who mourn.
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OK lets do it this way.
I am going to close this thread, the news is now out and speculation here is not appropriate. I am going to sticky a thread where condolences may be offered, however, there will be no speculation permitted.
There is another thread open for discussion on the technical issues which will be moved to D & G Aircrew Notices.
I am going to close this thread, the news is now out and speculation here is not appropriate. I am going to sticky a thread where condolences may be offered, however, there will be no speculation permitted.
There is another thread open for discussion on the technical issues which will be moved to D & G Aircrew Notices.
