Flights too downmarket for many businesspeople
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Flights too downmarket for many businesspeople
Fri "The Australian"
Flights too downmarket for many businesspeople
By Steve Creedy
July 23, 2004
GOLD Coast business travellers desperate to regain inflight comforts have tried to convince Virgin Blue to introduce a business class and will have a similar crack at Qantas next week.
Virgin has already politely said no and hopes now rest on convincing Qantas to fly more two-class Boeing 737s to the Queensland resort area, touted as Australia's sixth-biggest population centre.
The arrival of Jetstar means hard times have befallen well-heeled business- class travellers in the first leisure destinations targeted by the new airline.
Qantas has reduced two-class flights to the Gold Coast from Sydney and ended them to Melbourne. The mainline airline has pulled out of the Sunshine Coast and Proserpine and is planning the same for Hamilton Island.
Many former high-flyers are now forced to endure flights with the T-shirt brigade with nary a free glass of bubbly in sight - and they're not happy.
They resent being forced to check in at least 30 minutes before a flight, not being able to check through luggage and paying for excess baggage if they exceed the 20kg limit.
Property developer Alec Wallis has been flying Qantas business class between homes in Sydney and the Gold Coast once or twice a week for as long as he can remember.
He says the reduction in business-class services means he is forced to fly economy on the newly fledged Jetstar.
But the remaining Qantas flights - reduced from three a day to two - do not fit his schedule.
"The message from Qantas seems to be that they don't regard the Gold Coast as a business centre anymore," he said.
A Gold Coast business lobby group will demand Qantas improves services to the area in a meeting next week. A $127million convention centre opened on the Gold Coast last month.
Gold Coast Chamber of Commerce president Don Jones said the reduction of full-service flights by Qantas to Sydney and Melbourne was a huge blow to the area's business reputation.
"It means the underlying assumption is the Gold Coast is only a cheap family destination, which is totally wrong," he said.
While the airlines agree there are plenty of small to medium enterprises on the coast, they say these tend to be quick to take advantage of cheaper economy fares.
Qantas said it was lack of demand that led to its decision to reduce the number of two-class flights from Sydney to the Gold Coast and cut them out to Melbourne completely.
The flying kangaroo has made no secret of the fact that Jetstar is targeting predominantly leisure-based markets where profits are marginal and there is little demand for business class travel.
The arrival of Virgin Blue split the Queensland markets and the Brisbane-based carrier is now estimated to have about 50 per cent of the traffic on Gold Coast routes.
Additional reporting by Barclay Crawford and Greg Roberts
===========================================
Flights too downmarket for many businesspeople
By Steve Creedy
July 23, 2004
GOLD Coast business travellers desperate to regain inflight comforts have tried to convince Virgin Blue to introduce a business class and will have a similar crack at Qantas next week.
Virgin has already politely said no and hopes now rest on convincing Qantas to fly more two-class Boeing 737s to the Queensland resort area, touted as Australia's sixth-biggest population centre.
The arrival of Jetstar means hard times have befallen well-heeled business- class travellers in the first leisure destinations targeted by the new airline.
Qantas has reduced two-class flights to the Gold Coast from Sydney and ended them to Melbourne. The mainline airline has pulled out of the Sunshine Coast and Proserpine and is planning the same for Hamilton Island.
Many former high-flyers are now forced to endure flights with the T-shirt brigade with nary a free glass of bubbly in sight - and they're not happy.
They resent being forced to check in at least 30 minutes before a flight, not being able to check through luggage and paying for excess baggage if they exceed the 20kg limit.
Property developer Alec Wallis has been flying Qantas business class between homes in Sydney and the Gold Coast once or twice a week for as long as he can remember.
He says the reduction in business-class services means he is forced to fly economy on the newly fledged Jetstar.
But the remaining Qantas flights - reduced from three a day to two - do not fit his schedule.
"The message from Qantas seems to be that they don't regard the Gold Coast as a business centre anymore," he said.
A Gold Coast business lobby group will demand Qantas improves services to the area in a meeting next week. A $127million convention centre opened on the Gold Coast last month.
Gold Coast Chamber of Commerce president Don Jones said the reduction of full-service flights by Qantas to Sydney and Melbourne was a huge blow to the area's business reputation.
"It means the underlying assumption is the Gold Coast is only a cheap family destination, which is totally wrong," he said.
While the airlines agree there are plenty of small to medium enterprises on the coast, they say these tend to be quick to take advantage of cheaper economy fares.
Qantas said it was lack of demand that led to its decision to reduce the number of two-class flights from Sydney to the Gold Coast and cut them out to Melbourne completely.
The flying kangaroo has made no secret of the fact that Jetstar is targeting predominantly leisure-based markets where profits are marginal and there is little demand for business class travel.
The arrival of Virgin Blue split the Queensland markets and the Brisbane-based carrier is now estimated to have about 50 per cent of the traffic on Gold Coast routes.
Additional reporting by Barclay Crawford and Greg Roberts
===========================================
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Funny how times change. 
Not that long ago, when we had the Qantas and Ansett Duopoly, people were screaming out for a low cost Airline.
Now we have Virgin Blue and JetStar, and Qantas are cutting back on their full service flights, people are screaming out for a decent full service Airline.
Not that long ago, when we had the Qantas and Ansett Duopoly, people were screaming out for a low cost Airline.
Now we have Virgin Blue and JetStar, and Qantas are cutting back on their full service flights, people are screaming out for a decent full service Airline.
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Sounds like the white shoe brigade is well and truly alive and well on the Gold Coast.
Travel between Sydney and GC regularly in business class for years? More money than sense is a phrase that springs to mind.
Why would you pay the extra for what amounts to a 50 minute seat in an aircraft? Can't even knock over a bottle of half decent red in that time. Sounds a bit precious to me. Next he'll be complaining that he can't get any decent house staff since the government cracked down on illegal immigration.
Travel between Sydney and GC regularly in business class for years? More money than sense is a phrase that springs to mind.
Why would you pay the extra for what amounts to a 50 minute seat in an aircraft? Can't even knock over a bottle of half decent red in that time. Sounds a bit precious to me. Next he'll be complaining that he can't get any decent house staff since the government cracked down on illegal immigration.
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@$1000 CG-SY Return J-Class x 2 a week x @50 weeks = over $100K p/a. A business (it has to be) who affords/wastes that on one person each year should be looking at fractional ownership of bizjet surely?
Must represent less than 0.5% of the CG QF market, even if it is high yield - a deliberate decision to abandon them by QF I should think.
Must represent less than 0.5% of the CG QF market, even if it is high yield - a deliberate decision to abandon them by QF I should think.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Apache; If anyone on this august forum would know it would be you who could tell just how fast I can put away a bottle of red!
Fifty minutes? A walk in the park!
And the new owner of the Australian Hotel has expanded the wine list too!
Re your PM; I'll never get sick of the mail run!!!
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Fifty minutes? A walk in the park!And the new owner of the Australian Hotel has expanded the wine list too!
Re your PM; I'll never get sick of the mail run!!!
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
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Its not the wine or cheese platter that they are mssing. Rather they would prefer not to be seated next to thong wearing degenerates that fly on VB or J*. The nonsense that ones has to endure on a VB flight is enough to make you fly J*.
Just Binos
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I find this hysterical. So the poor property developers and the like are having to put up with the ferals on the aircraft with them. Diddums! When they themselves, as opposed to their companies, have to pay the fare they may realise why people are embracing the low cost airlines.
If you don't like it, Mr Property Developer/Businessman, hire a Lear Jet. Or can't you justify putting that much extra cost on to your customers?
Next we'll be hearing the crap about high powered businessmen needing to be well rested on their 90 minute flight so they can make well-considered business decisions before they retire to their five star hotels. Tossers.
(Come on Winstun, World's Worst, Bindook and all the other Dycophants, let's hear it!)
If you don't like it, Mr Property Developer/Businessman, hire a Lear Jet. Or can't you justify putting that much extra cost on to your customers?
Next we'll be hearing the crap about high powered businessmen needing to be well rested on their 90 minute flight so they can make well-considered business decisions before they retire to their five star hotels. Tossers.
(Come on Winstun, World's Worst, Bindook and all the other Dycophants, let's hear it!)
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Apache,
Sure you could take less than 50 minutes to knock over a half decent red by yourself. However, I like to enjoy my good wine, not skull it.
"Boat races" are for football players and surf lifesavers, wouldn't you rather savour a decent wine?
Sure you could take less than 50 minutes to knock over a half decent red by yourself. However, I like to enjoy my good wine, not skull it.
"Boat races" are for football players and surf lifesavers, wouldn't you rather savour a decent wine?
Don Quixote Impersonator
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There is no question that there is a "different" profile of pax between a VB and a QF flight, they IMHO sought quite different markets.
Now Jetstar are there to compete with the VB market why should we expect their pax profile to be much difference.
Without denigrating that market I think in the UK they are referred to as the "shellsuit brigade", where when getting dressed up to go somewhere special means changing into their "Sunday best going out" tracky daks and sneakers.
One only has to stand in the arrivals lounge of both to see that and it has generated a huge new market = more aircraft = more pilots and so on. Everybody wins, sort of?
Except where QF substitute Jetstar without providing an alternative.
Likewise it would be very dangerous for VB were they to lose focus and try to be all things to all people by introducing a "soft class", it would IMHO defeat the whole, very succesful formula.
The real trick for QF is going to be how they stop leakage of the "premium" pax and remain sufficiently differentiated to retain them, if indeed it is economic for them to do so.
Does that mean we are all reduced to the lowest common denominator.
It maybe we see the re-emergence of the corporate jet.
I suspect there have been more than a few companies that went to VB looking for "cheap" and came back, again, I hasten to add not because of any deficiency in the VB service.
There were only two suits (and they were young uns) on a recent full VB arrival at PER the other day. Again, no reflection on VB, they deliver what they promised, no frills, low fares and very efficiently.
If I'm off on a cheap holiday or want to grab an "opportunity fare" and the restrictions that come with it, no problems and now I've got a choice as well, however, if I'm off to or coming home from work or want a bit of pampering, (in "premium economy or J class) I'd be pretty p!ssed off if I have no option but to get jammed in amongst the chattering class.
Unless you have done the weeks long multi sector new city every day or transcontinental same day return routine as a regular part of your working life, it's difficult to convey the value of the "airline club lounge" and "personal space".
QF have now, perhaps irrevocably for them, separated the market, the job now is to find out whether what's left for QF is sufficient in itself and can be profitable.
Maybe QF will disappear from the domestic scene altogether, .........does that leave VB and Jetstar free to go to a J and Y Class structure........, round and round we go, leaves an opening for another low fare no frills carrier,......... and........... who will carry the domestic legs of the QF international pax, ..........remember Pan Am found out the hard way about how well that works.
Old Chinese curse. "may you live in interesting times"
Now Jetstar are there to compete with the VB market why should we expect their pax profile to be much difference.
Without denigrating that market I think in the UK they are referred to as the "shellsuit brigade", where when getting dressed up to go somewhere special means changing into their "Sunday best going out" tracky daks and sneakers.
One only has to stand in the arrivals lounge of both to see that and it has generated a huge new market = more aircraft = more pilots and so on. Everybody wins, sort of?
Except where QF substitute Jetstar without providing an alternative.
Likewise it would be very dangerous for VB were they to lose focus and try to be all things to all people by introducing a "soft class", it would IMHO defeat the whole, very succesful formula.
The real trick for QF is going to be how they stop leakage of the "premium" pax and remain sufficiently differentiated to retain them, if indeed it is economic for them to do so.
Does that mean we are all reduced to the lowest common denominator.
It maybe we see the re-emergence of the corporate jet.
I suspect there have been more than a few companies that went to VB looking for "cheap" and came back, again, I hasten to add not because of any deficiency in the VB service.
There were only two suits (and they were young uns) on a recent full VB arrival at PER the other day. Again, no reflection on VB, they deliver what they promised, no frills, low fares and very efficiently.
If I'm off on a cheap holiday or want to grab an "opportunity fare" and the restrictions that come with it, no problems and now I've got a choice as well, however, if I'm off to or coming home from work or want a bit of pampering, (in "premium economy or J class) I'd be pretty p!ssed off if I have no option but to get jammed in amongst the chattering class.
Unless you have done the weeks long multi sector new city every day or transcontinental same day return routine as a regular part of your working life, it's difficult to convey the value of the "airline club lounge" and "personal space".
QF have now, perhaps irrevocably for them, separated the market, the job now is to find out whether what's left for QF is sufficient in itself and can be profitable.
Maybe QF will disappear from the domestic scene altogether, .........does that leave VB and Jetstar free to go to a J and Y Class structure........, round and round we go, leaves an opening for another low fare no frills carrier,......... and........... who will carry the domestic legs of the QF international pax, ..........remember Pan Am found out the hard way about how well that works.
Old Chinese curse. "may you live in interesting times"
Rather they would prefer not to be seated next to thong wearing degenerates that fly on VB or J*.
I'd love to sit next to one of the hosties.... oh you mean THOSE kind of thongs
PPRuNette
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Hey 'pache, I recall it took you and I less than 20 minutes to destroy the old mans cellar a few years back.....and it only took me 3 years to recover 
And fer crying out loud, what's with these 'people' pissing and moaning about full service
Is it that hard to make yourself a bit of toast before going to work in the morning?
Oh, of course, it's not at all about full service is it? More about projection of a tossing image to uphold I'd say
GG
And fer crying out loud, what's with these 'people' pissing and moaning about full service
Is it that hard to make yourself a bit of toast before going to work in the morning?
Oh, of course, it's not at all about full service is it? More about projection of a tossing image to uphold I'd say
GG
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"Boat races" are for football players and surf lifesavers, wouldn't you rather savour a decent wine?
Can't even knock over a bottle of half decent red in that time.
And... when did QF ever(recently) HAVE a decent red on board ?... half decent... yes.. Decent ???
AHHH... GoGirl.... yes, the old man still hasn't forgiven me for that.Mind you, I bought him a half dozen Cloudy Bay Pinot Noirs recently, so he is talking to me now!
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Apache,
Easy tiger!
It seems you can't take some things in jest. As an ex-footballer and lifesaver (and Beach Inspector) from the Gold Coast, I love good wine and a good beer. I've had my fair share of boat races and savouring decent wine. I'm just saying that you don't chug-a-lug your wine in Business class.
Wasn't Qantas voted recently as having the best wine range of the world's airlines? I know in the Qantas club you can get some decent wines. Sure it's not Grange or St. Henri's, but it is still quite decent. And you can get a Crownies as well.
GoGirl is absolutely right. White shoe brigade whinger and keeping up appearances.
BTW, only a half dozen Cloudy Bay Pinot Noirs, come on. Sounds like you need to also get the old man some Margaret River Whites (maybe some Leeuwin Estate Chardonnay), some Hunter Valley reds (Lake's Folly might be nice), and maybe some of those nice Victorian fortifieds (one of the Rutherglen or Brown Brothers ports or Tokays). Then when you next drink his cellar dry, you'll be drinking some quite decent drops.
DP
Easy tiger!
It seems you can't take some things in jest. As an ex-footballer and lifesaver (and Beach Inspector) from the Gold Coast, I love good wine and a good beer. I've had my fair share of boat races and savouring decent wine. I'm just saying that you don't chug-a-lug your wine in Business class.
Wasn't Qantas voted recently as having the best wine range of the world's airlines? I know in the Qantas club you can get some decent wines. Sure it's not Grange or St. Henri's, but it is still quite decent. And you can get a Crownies as well.
GoGirl is absolutely right. White shoe brigade whinger and keeping up appearances.
BTW, only a half dozen Cloudy Bay Pinot Noirs, come on. Sounds like you need to also get the old man some Margaret River Whites (maybe some Leeuwin Estate Chardonnay), some Hunter Valley reds (Lake's Folly might be nice), and maybe some of those nice Victorian fortifieds (one of the Rutherglen or Brown Brothers ports or Tokays). Then when you next drink his cellar dry, you'll be drinking some quite decent drops.
DP
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DP...
No offence taken , or intended, but just because QF gets voted as having the best wines of any airline, doesn't mean that they have top drops. Just means that everyone else has wine of less quality.
Call me biased, but I have a penchant at the moment for the MARLOBOROUGH (NZ) Pinot Noir's and Saugivnon Blanc's. Unfortunately the Aussie wines are not of this calibre. And I could imagine the uproar if Qantas, the AUSTRALIAN airline, was to stock their bars with NZ wine, and call it the best!
PS: Half dozen Cloudy Bays wasn't cheap either!!!!
No offence taken , or intended, but just because QF gets voted as having the best wines of any airline, doesn't mean that they have top drops. Just means that everyone else has wine of less quality.
Call me biased, but I have a penchant at the moment for the MARLOBOROUGH (NZ) Pinot Noir's and Saugivnon Blanc's. Unfortunately the Aussie wines are not of this calibre. And I could imagine the uproar if Qantas, the AUSTRALIAN airline, was to stock their bars with NZ wine, and call it the best!
PS: Half dozen Cloudy Bays wasn't cheap either!!!!
PPRuNette
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awww, you ain't never been cheep 'pache 
Back to the subject matter....what sort of tosser needs to make such a statement that he/she is some sort of wine buff whilst getting from point A to point B at 30 000 ft
The whole concept of 'fine dining' should be appreciated with good mates or that special someone.
I've thought about it often, and keep coming to the same conclusion; why bother have full service on a flight with less than a 2 hour duration?
Here's one out of left field - if people want to treat the skies like a 5 star dining experience, why not have them make a 'reservation' for such service at the time of booking; paying accordingly, of course, as you would in any fine dining restaurant.
Leave this option open to any pax, Y or J.
I'm sure that then we'd keep the fusspots happy, and the Airline could make a fortune charging exorbitantly inflated prices for their produce, to those that really need it!
I recommend this tongue in cheek.
Air travel has changed ever so much since the days when it was all about the entire experience, when only the relatively wealthy could entertain such prospects, and those less fortunate could only dare to dream of such an adventure.
Like any other service industry, this one had to evolve.
I'd like to think that this industry has evolved and developed higher standards of safety, and a better standard of personable customer service, bridging a gap between the 'have's' and the 'have not as much'.
GG
Back to the subject matter....what sort of tosser needs to make such a statement that he/she is some sort of wine buff whilst getting from point A to point B at 30 000 ft
The whole concept of 'fine dining' should be appreciated with good mates or that special someone.
I've thought about it often, and keep coming to the same conclusion; why bother have full service on a flight with less than a 2 hour duration?
Here's one out of left field - if people want to treat the skies like a 5 star dining experience, why not have them make a 'reservation' for such service at the time of booking; paying accordingly, of course, as you would in any fine dining restaurant.
Leave this option open to any pax, Y or J.
I'm sure that then we'd keep the fusspots happy, and the Airline could make a fortune charging exorbitantly inflated prices for their produce, to those that really need it!
I recommend this tongue in cheek.
Air travel has changed ever so much since the days when it was all about the entire experience, when only the relatively wealthy could entertain such prospects, and those less fortunate could only dare to dream of such an adventure.
Like any other service industry, this one had to evolve.
I'd like to think that this industry has evolved and developed higher standards of safety, and a better standard of personable customer service, bridging a gap between the 'have's' and the 'have not as much'.
GG