Standards @ VB
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Standards @ VB
I have heard on the vine that not is all well at VB-(From a standards point of view). Crews flying up to a Flight level above t
hat allowed in the FMC because the flight plan had them there . The plan was worked the day before on prelim figures. The actural wts far different from the planned.The result has been a No. of cases of A/C stalling and in 1 case I heard lost some 8000 ft .Before recovering.
A safety auditor appointed (EX Ansset) heared tearing his hair out .
I only mention this because by the time it gets to me its been around for weeks
hat allowed in the FMC because the flight plan had them there . The plan was worked the day before on prelim figures. The actural wts far different from the planned.The result has been a No. of cases of A/C stalling and in 1 case I heard lost some 8000 ft .Before recovering.
A safety auditor appointed (EX Ansset) heared tearing his hair out .
I only mention this because by the time it gets to me its been around for weeks
Sounds like BS to me!
As if the guys in the sharp end would blindly follow the plan, ignoring the CDU message and allow the acft to fly into the "zipper". In any case the AFS & Stall protection wouldn't allow a stall to occur.
Sounds like someones having a lend of ya whatsitdoin
As if the guys in the sharp end would blindly follow the plan, ignoring the CDU message and allow the acft to fly into the "zipper". In any case the AFS & Stall protection wouldn't allow a stall to occur.
Sounds like someones having a lend of ya whatsitdoin
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And when they were asked to reduce to min speed by ATC, they did as instructed .... then asked to turn 90 degrees off track, they did as instructed .... however the min speed they had selected was less than that prescribed by Mr Boeing, with that horrible heart starting, newspaper dropping, coffee spilling stick shaker annoying them for the next 6000' before they regained composure .... and that's a fact! 
Can't vouch for the validity of Macrohard's story, but if it's true, then between that and their recent maintenance history, perhaps it is time that the regulatory authorities got a bit more actively involved with the great VB. I seem to recall another (more Australian) airline being grounded for less.
It's a shame that Bob Katter wasn't onboard - I wonder how a near stall with consequent height loss would have compared to the "Go-Around" experience for him.
It's a shame that Bob Katter wasn't onboard - I wonder how a near stall with consequent height loss would have compared to the "Go-Around" experience for him.
6000' feet height loss...8000' height losss....wow....
I find it very hard to believe that an RPT jet aircraft operating mostly in A & C airspace could lose anywhere near that much "height" and not be reported in either the ATSB website or more likely, very surprised passengers (and FAs) spouting off to any reporter that would listen. Which is most of them. What about the ATCO who saw it happen on his/her screen or took the call if they were outside radar coverage? Don't you think they might spill the beans?
Sounds like yet another attempt to 'prove' that the only pilots that should be flying RPT jet aircraft in Australia are QF pilots.
I find it very hard to believe that an RPT jet aircraft operating mostly in A & C airspace could lose anywhere near that much "height" and not be reported in either the ATSB website or more likely, very surprised passengers (and FAs) spouting off to any reporter that would listen. Which is most of them. What about the ATCO who saw it happen on his/her screen or took the call if they were outside radar coverage? Don't you think they might spill the beans?
Sounds like yet another attempt to 'prove' that the only pilots that should be flying RPT jet aircraft in Australia are QF pilots.
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Believe it or not, however, it is now a SOP that the HDG SEL be set to 10 degrees when reaching cruise level to avoid any further embarrassment. Don't know how that satisfies the requirement of a rate one/25 AoB turn requirement?
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And when they were asked to reduce to min speed by ATC, they did as instructed .... then asked to turn 90 degrees off track, they did as instructed ....
If that's the facts, then certainly they were under radar coverage and there would have been at least one witness watching the big eye in the sky.
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And here's me being told by a 20 year old Qantas Second Officer the meaning and difference between Optimum and Maximum flight levels as prescribed by the FMC.
Perhaps VB dont teach their pilots accordingly?
Sounds like crisis management rather than good training.
Perhaps VB dont teach their pilots accordingly?
Sounds like crisis management rather than good training.
Microhard
Are you talking about the maximum permitted AOB/ROT as per the AIP or some company SOP?
Don't know how that satisfies the requirement of a rate one/25 AoB turn requirement?
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As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
Caveat Emptor!
Woomera
Caveat Emptor!
Woomera
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It would not be the first time that a B737-800 has stalled at altitude. Agree with 5miles that it would have been on the radar tape, the departure from altitude ringing bells. Appropriate paperwork would have been entered...
Can someone tell me about blue star - the new recruitment methodology at VB??
Can someone tell me about blue star - the new recruitment methodology at VB??
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MINIMUM SPEEDS
The amber bar on the PFD speed tape, identifies the minimum speed that provides a 1.3g buffet margin. This margin of safety is easily eroded if the aircraft climbs, carries out a turn, or experiences turbulence.
The FMC includes a real-time bank limited function which is designed to help preclude LNAV commanded bank angle from exceeding the current available thrust limit. This bank angle protection is not available when LNAV mode is deactivated.
When manoeuvring at high altitudes with LNAV de-activated, flight crew should:
1. Fly at least 10kt above the lower amber band if sufficient speed margin to the upper band is available.
2. If speed drops below the amber band limit, immediately increase speed by carrying out one of the following:
(a) Reduce angle of bank,
(b) Increase thrust (up to Max Continuous Thrust - MCT), as required, or,
(c) Descend.
3. Limit bank angle to no more than 10 degrees for manual steering in cruise. The MCP bank angle selector should be set to 10 degrees from TOC to TOD to preclude higher bank angles during cruise manoeuvring in HDG SEL mode.
I hope this answers your question.
The amber bar on the PFD speed tape, identifies the minimum speed that provides a 1.3g buffet margin. This margin of safety is easily eroded if the aircraft climbs, carries out a turn, or experiences turbulence.
The FMC includes a real-time bank limited function which is designed to help preclude LNAV commanded bank angle from exceeding the current available thrust limit. This bank angle protection is not available when LNAV mode is deactivated.
When manoeuvring at high altitudes with LNAV de-activated, flight crew should:
1. Fly at least 10kt above the lower amber band if sufficient speed margin to the upper band is available.
2. If speed drops below the amber band limit, immediately increase speed by carrying out one of the following:
(a) Reduce angle of bank,
(b) Increase thrust (up to Max Continuous Thrust - MCT), as required, or,
(c) Descend.
3. Limit bank angle to no more than 10 degrees for manual steering in cruise. The MCP bank angle selector should be set to 10 degrees from TOC to TOD to preclude higher bank angles during cruise manoeuvring in HDG SEL mode.
I hope this answers your question.
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...and Level Change 340 obviously knows what he's talking about, unlike the rest of you turkeys who smack of PPL status, perhaps even SPL status?
I mean, what is this? Bag airline pilots because you haven't made it yet?
Never, ever, forget, there are only two types of pilots.
Airline pilots and those who want to be Airline pilots!!!
I mean, what is this? Bag airline pilots because you haven't made it yet?
Never, ever, forget, there are only two types of pilots.
Airline pilots and those who want to be Airline pilots!!!
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Macrohard
I seem to recall it's the same on the 744? Boeing SOP to go to 10 degrees bank angle selection at TOC in case of HDG SEL manoeuvering. Been off it for a while so may be wrong?
Cls
I seem to recall it's the same on the 744? Boeing SOP to go to 10 degrees bank angle selection at TOC in case of HDG SEL manoeuvering. Been off it for a while so may be wrong?
Cls
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LVL CHG 340, Reading between the lines, Boeing FCTM for NG states a limitation of Vref40+100kt for holding above FL250. This is to provide adequate manouvre margin during the turns in the holding pattern. This speed is often above the amber bar+10kt on the speed tape. There is nothing stopping a crew from operating at a lower speed, ie. ALT HOLD thus reducing the margin available. So how does DJ rectify the problem of someone(?) not adhering to the limitations prescribed by Boeing? ... Simple, instead of ensure adequate training or recurrent training, apply a blanket procedure by which all crew must now adopt.
What ever happened to reading the books and knowing the limitations of the aircraft?
BTW, (LVL CHG 340) your post reeks of plagiarism .... did you come up with those ideas? Are they printed in an operating manual of the NG or were you provided them, spoon feed?
What ever happened to reading the books and knowing the limitations of the aircraft?
BTW, (LVL CHG 340) your post reeks of plagiarism .... did you come up with those ideas? Are they printed in an operating manual of the NG or were you provided them, spoon feed?
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Macrohardon,
Everyone knows about the FCTM speed limitations for holding above F250.
The procedure being discussed here (10 deg bank during cruise) is for just that - Cruise. It does not necessarily mean someone stalled and lost 6000' or whatever was quoted.
whatsitdoingnow seems to be an appropriate name to the thread starter.
Everyone knows about the FCTM speed limitations for holding above F250.
The procedure being discussed here (10 deg bank during cruise) is for just that - Cruise. It does not necessarily mean someone stalled and lost 6000' or whatever was quoted.
whatsitdoingnow seems to be an appropriate name to the thread starter.
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So Capt Toilet Brush , (you started it), if
Just what is the story?
Why was a bulletin put out to the pilots, to change the procedure to select 10 degrees AoB upon reaching top of climb?
Oh, I've got it...... JR decides he feels like it!! Had to put a lot of thought into that one!
Why not ask a couple of the check Captains? That's where I got my story from!
Everyone knows about the FCTM speed limitations for holding above F250.
Why was a bulletin put out to the pilots, to change the procedure to select 10 degrees AoB upon reaching top of climb?
Oh, I've got it...... JR decides he feels like it!! Had to put a lot of thought into that one!
Why not ask a couple of the check Captains? That's where I got my story from!
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bunch of sissies. Can't believe you fly at 10 Deg AOB in the cruise. WHY???? WHat's ya problem??? Gonna stall the thing???
What a joke. Have you worked through the performance charts or did some dickless boffin tell you that was a good idea????
Get a spine-bone you guys and operate the thing like a jet like it's meant to be, you're making it 10X harder than it needs to be
What a joke. Have you worked through the performance charts or did some dickless boffin tell you that was a good idea????
Get a spine-bone you guys and operate the thing like a jet like it's meant to be, you're making it 10X harder than it needs to be