The Bondi Beach Project- Airspace Discussion in Sydney
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Icarus 2001
So I guess you want people to show up wearing masks too, huh? You seem to be a proponent of expressing your own opinion, well, so am I!
Perhaps it's easier to sit on the sidelines and yell insults than actually do anything with your life. Go back and try and make, "17 year olds horny at seeing a 1978 Cessna 152". Heck mate, if I'd had an instructor like you, I'd have never come back after the first lesson!
Dick Smith has absolutely nothing to do with the organisation of this meeting, with the exception of offering to show up. I have had only had one telephone conversation with him in my entire life. He also sent an e-mail offering to show up and that is that!
You will also note that Dick Smith criticized my own definitions of American Class E Airspace in another thread a while back. Technically he was correct and I have no trouble admitting that. It doesn't mean that life has to come to a standstill and we start calling each other names.
Icarus 2001, what exactly have you done with your life?! Did you ever start an Australian publishing company? How about fly around the world pole to pole? Did you ever employ thousands of people in the field of electronics? Prevent an Australian industry from being exported overseas? Can you fly a helicopter? Have you ever held a position of political office? Been awarded the Order of Australia, or The Australian of the Year?
What exactly has Dick Smith done for Australia? DUHHHH!
Woomera
Suggest you also add the definition for altruism.
To everyone else, thank you all for the outpouring of support for this project. I would invite Dick Smith to add to this post, or anyone else for that matter that has shown a keen interest in showing up. For those that don't wish to present, I'm sure representatives from the various interests will allow questions and answers, but I still need numbers.
So I guess you want people to show up wearing masks too, huh? You seem to be a proponent of expressing your own opinion, well, so am I!
Perhaps it's easier to sit on the sidelines and yell insults than actually do anything with your life. Go back and try and make, "17 year olds horny at seeing a 1978 Cessna 152". Heck mate, if I'd had an instructor like you, I'd have never come back after the first lesson!
Dick Smith has absolutely nothing to do with the organisation of this meeting, with the exception of offering to show up. I have had only had one telephone conversation with him in my entire life. He also sent an e-mail offering to show up and that is that!
You will also note that Dick Smith criticized my own definitions of American Class E Airspace in another thread a while back. Technically he was correct and I have no trouble admitting that. It doesn't mean that life has to come to a standstill and we start calling each other names.
Icarus 2001, what exactly have you done with your life?! Did you ever start an Australian publishing company? How about fly around the world pole to pole? Did you ever employ thousands of people in the field of electronics? Prevent an Australian industry from being exported overseas? Can you fly a helicopter? Have you ever held a position of political office? Been awarded the Order of Australia, or The Australian of the Year?
What exactly has Dick Smith done for Australia? DUHHHH!
Woomera
Suggest you also add the definition for altruism.
To everyone else, thank you all for the outpouring of support for this project. I would invite Dick Smith to add to this post, or anyone else for that matter that has shown a keen interest in showing up. For those that don't wish to present, I'm sure representatives from the various interests will allow questions and answers, but I still need numbers.
Last edited by Chris Higgins; 25th Jun 2004 at 12:12.
Chris Higgins it is good to see that you are learning from Dick how to play the man not the issue at hand.
...and that in itself is my point.
Clearly you know me well...
I am ashamed. I have wasted my life teaching people how to fly. What a useless, hollow shell of a person I am.
I must go off and crawl under a rock.
Thank you Chris Higgins for showing me how worthless I am compared to Dick. You are absolutley right I have no right to hold my own opinion in this democracy we call Australia. That is reserved for business and political leaders and expat pilots like yourself.
I unreservedly apologise. I will take my worthless self away now.
Goodbye cruel pprune
Dick Smith has absolutely nothing to do with the organisation of this meeting, with the exception of offering to show up.
Clearly you know me well...
Icarus 2001, what exactly have you done with your life?! Did you ever start an Australian publishing company? How about fly around the world pole to pole? Did you ever employ thousands of people in the field of electronics? Prevent an Australian industry from being exported overseas? Can you fly a helicopter? Have you ever held a position of political office? Been awarded the Order of Australia, or The Australian of the Year?
I must go off and crawl under a rock.Thank you Chris Higgins for showing me how worthless I am compared to Dick. You are absolutley right I have no right to hold my own opinion in this democracy we call Australia. That is reserved for business and political leaders and expat pilots like yourself.
I unreservedly apologise. I will take my worthless self away now.
Goodbye cruel pprune
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Chris Higgins
You asked for it;
Cambridge Dictionary
Definition
altruism
noun
willingness to do things which benefit other people, even if it results in disadvantage for yourself:
She's not known for her altruism.
altruist noun
altruistic adjective
I doubt whether her motives for donating the money are altruistic - she's probably looking for publicity.
altruistically adverb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
And from Another Woomeri, which dictionary definition for altruism do you prefer:
Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; or
Instinctive cooperative behavior that is detrimental to the individual but contributes to the survival of the species.
Our concern, as I pointed out to you by email, is solely to protect the anonymity - and livlihood - of our PPRuNe Members.
You asked for it;
Cambridge Dictionary
Definition
altruism
noun
willingness to do things which benefit other people, even if it results in disadvantage for yourself:
She's not known for her altruism.
altruist noun
altruistic adjective
I doubt whether her motives for donating the money are altruistic - she's probably looking for publicity.
altruistically adverb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
And from Another Woomeri, which dictionary definition for altruism do you prefer:
Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; or
Instinctive cooperative behavior that is detrimental to the individual but contributes to the survival of the species.
Our concern, as I pointed out to you by email, is solely to protect the anonymity - and livlihood - of our PPRuNe Members.
Last edited by Woomera; 26th Jun 2004 at 22:59.
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Chris.
I was planning to be there. I can't say that I am too keen, now you seem to want everyone to identify themselves. I'm fairly certain I'd be served some writs if I did.
For the benefit of Dick's process server;
I believe that I look a lot like Pierce Brosnan.
I have been told by independant experts that I look a lot like Pierce Brosnan.
In fact, in north america , I am Pierce Brosnan.
I was planning to be there. I can't say that I am too keen, now you seem to want everyone to identify themselves. I'm fairly certain I'd be served some writs if I did.
For the benefit of Dick's process server;
I believe that I look a lot like Pierce Brosnan.
I have been told by independant experts that I look a lot like Pierce Brosnan.
In fact, in north america , I am Pierce Brosnan.
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I will tell you one thing Chris, Dick Smith doesn't have to risk his life and those of his passengers in E airspace outside radar coverage every day, earning a living.
I am afraid that your meeting will achieve very little, lots of airline pilots told both the Smith's that the airspace wouldn't be safe, and they chose not to listen, branding us as union stooges. When thr near miss did happen, Airservices quickly moved to put in a tempory radar.
Doesn't that prove the airspace model is unsafe?
Chris, talk will not settle the problems, only action by the government will.
I am afraid that your meeting will achieve very little, lots of airline pilots told both the Smith's that the airspace wouldn't be safe, and they chose not to listen, branding us as union stooges. When thr near miss did happen, Airservices quickly moved to put in a tempory radar.
Doesn't that prove the airspace model is unsafe?
Chris, talk will not settle the problems, only action by the government will.
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Another update...
Icarus 2001
You seem to be able to offer countless insults to Mr Smith and others under the anonymity of this forum and not expect anything in return? You can give, but not take?
Okay, so you have chosen to live the life of the starving artist as you single-handedly save GA! Well, I hope your wife appreciates that...and your children when it's time to seek higher education. Icarus 2001, you are flying too close to the sun I fear, be careful you don't drown in your own self deprecation.
As someone who has Multi and IFR approval, together with aerobatics and tailwheel, my 2,000 hours of instructing are as valuable to my students as the last 2,000 hours offered by anyone else, yourself included. As a former ground instructor for a major US Airline on the Boeing 757/767, teaching systems ground school and simulators offered yet another rewarding instructional experience....but it also paid $100 k a year more than flight instruction in a GA aircraft. When I don't have to fly at 43,000 feet to Barbados, and I have a spare few days here at home, I still have the opportunity to instruct, the two are not mutually exclusive.
To everyone else...
Thanks for the outpouring of support. It appears that the conference room has seating for 65, I may have to get the larger one that has seating for about a 100. We have thirteen people wishing to present and nine wishing to show up and ask questions...not bad for three days.
Spread the word! One of you has sent me an e-mail with literally a dozen other contacts, that's a very nice gesture and I will direct them to this forum as well as offer an invitation.
No names have been divulged to anyone, we simply need to have an order of presentation at the meeting.
Mr Dick Smith will present first, I have already decided that!
You seem to be able to offer countless insults to Mr Smith and others under the anonymity of this forum and not expect anything in return? You can give, but not take?
Okay, so you have chosen to live the life of the starving artist as you single-handedly save GA! Well, I hope your wife appreciates that...and your children when it's time to seek higher education. Icarus 2001, you are flying too close to the sun I fear, be careful you don't drown in your own self deprecation.
As someone who has Multi and IFR approval, together with aerobatics and tailwheel, my 2,000 hours of instructing are as valuable to my students as the last 2,000 hours offered by anyone else, yourself included. As a former ground instructor for a major US Airline on the Boeing 757/767, teaching systems ground school and simulators offered yet another rewarding instructional experience....but it also paid $100 k a year more than flight instruction in a GA aircraft. When I don't have to fly at 43,000 feet to Barbados, and I have a spare few days here at home, I still have the opportunity to instruct, the two are not mutually exclusive.
To everyone else...
Thanks for the outpouring of support. It appears that the conference room has seating for 65, I may have to get the larger one that has seating for about a 100. We have thirteen people wishing to present and nine wishing to show up and ask questions...not bad for three days.
Spread the word! One of you has sent me an e-mail with literally a dozen other contacts, that's a very nice gesture and I will direct them to this forum as well as offer an invitation.
No names have been divulged to anyone, we simply need to have an order of presentation at the meeting.
Mr Dick Smith will present first, I have already decided that!
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Chris
While you may be well intentioned you are coming across as a deluded (and somewhat egotistical) soul who comes riding into town to save the mexicans.
What you are proposing will only be a talkfest. No more. It will not solve anything because it will not attract the major players.
Dick will come along but you have to understand that he does not take other peoples points of view into account.
I am sure people appreciate your enthusiasm, but with just a little less of the 'hero' attitude.
While you may be well intentioned you are coming across as a deluded (and somewhat egotistical) soul who comes riding into town to save the mexicans.
What you are proposing will only be a talkfest. No more. It will not solve anything because it will not attract the major players.
Dick will come along but you have to understand that he does not take other peoples points of view into account.
I am sure people appreciate your enthusiasm, but with just a little less of the 'hero' attitude.
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Come on Ferris come clean, you know when you walk in the room everyone will spot you. Its hard to blend in when you are 6foot 4" 300 pound black man. Oh almost forgot that massive thriving afro you've got going there on top of your head!
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Little "q"
I have no reason to make racist assertions about Mexicans or anyone else when making my point.
I see a lot of anger towards Dick Smith on this and other forums. I have no respect for those that choose to shoot from the shadows and run and hide. Although Woomera and others have expressed a need for confidentiality, that can only be respected for so long.
It's time to put up or shut up!
It seems that many have not seen this as an open forum to discuss airspace, but as a slugfest against Dick!
Again, I don't know the guy, perhaps he's a real pain in the backside, but I have to see for myself before I jump to conclusions.
As for the major players, don't worry they're coming!
As for my big ego...YEP it's bloody big! Get over it! It's what got me here and as a fellow Australian you should be proud of that!
Australians used to do well all the time when they went overseas, but many feel the fear now that was laughed about when referring to other nationalities. Nowhere is that more apparent than on these forums.
For those that don't think a talkfest can do well, I can assure you that such discussions have been the turning point of a great many events in history.
This is the Australian Airspace that we are talking about. I will not be delivering sermons from on high. This is about bringing adversaries together to find common ground to move forward. With the right attitude, and some proper planning, we will do just that!
I have no reason to make racist assertions about Mexicans or anyone else when making my point.
I see a lot of anger towards Dick Smith on this and other forums. I have no respect for those that choose to shoot from the shadows and run and hide. Although Woomera and others have expressed a need for confidentiality, that can only be respected for so long.
It's time to put up or shut up!
It seems that many have not seen this as an open forum to discuss airspace, but as a slugfest against Dick!
Again, I don't know the guy, perhaps he's a real pain in the backside, but I have to see for myself before I jump to conclusions.
As for the major players, don't worry they're coming!
As for my big ego...YEP it's bloody big! Get over it! It's what got me here and as a fellow Australian you should be proud of that!
Australians used to do well all the time when they went overseas, but many feel the fear now that was laughed about when referring to other nationalities. Nowhere is that more apparent than on these forums.
For those that don't think a talkfest can do well, I can assure you that such discussions have been the turning point of a great many events in history.
This is the Australian Airspace that we are talking about. I will not be delivering sermons from on high. This is about bringing adversaries together to find common ground to move forward. With the right attitude, and some proper planning, we will do just that!
Last edited by Chris Higgins; 26th Jun 2004 at 17:05.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
A couple of Q's about yourself, Chris. if I may....
What are your qualifications and experiece wrt aviation?
How much of that experience was gained in Australia/operating VH-registered aircraft?
And how much of it in the US?
How long have you been living in the US?
Finally - as someone who is resident in the USA (and married to a US citizen ?), why have you taken it upon yourself to organise this meeting - at YOUR expense, it would seem..is that correct?
Or will you be re-imbursed for any of your own out-of-pocket expenses related to this meeting? And if so, by whom?
Besides Dick Smith, WHO are the other major players you can guarantee will be there?
Thanks in advance.
What are your qualifications and experiece wrt aviation?
How much of that experience was gained in Australia/operating VH-registered aircraft?
And how much of it in the US?
How long have you been living in the US?
Finally - as someone who is resident in the USA (and married to a US citizen ?), why have you taken it upon yourself to organise this meeting - at YOUR expense, it would seem..is that correct?
Or will you be re-imbursed for any of your own out-of-pocket expenses related to this meeting? And if so, by whom?
As for the major players, don't worry they're coming!
Thanks in advance.
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Kaptin M
At last! Somebody asking some well founded and pertinent questions.
Because I stay 150 nights a year in hotel rooms, I am a platinum member of every hotel chain in the world. I have enough points to cover it, with the exception of a very small catering bill, which I certainly don't mind kicking in for.
I started learning to fly in 1983 at Needham Aviation in Port Macquarie, I was almost 16 so you can do the math, I'm now 36. I flew until October 1990 in Australia and left with just on 2,000 hours, a Senior Commercial Pilots Licence and a current command IFR and Grade 2.
My first employment was with Oxley Airlines as a baggage handler and I worked as a tradesman's assistant in aircraft engineering, mainly on Chieftains. My ground school was taught to me at Sydney Tech. in Ultimo, I finished my tech in 1986 and completed my CPL in early 1987. I went to Tillair and then after one of many recessions was laid off.
All was not lost though I was immediately hired in Mt Isa. When things slowed down again, quite a lot later, I elected to return to Bankstown to get an instructor's rating with Trudy Robbins at Kingsford Smith Aviation and finished it at Dubbo. I finished up an instrument rating with Bill Whitworth and flew some charter on the coast of Whitsunday and later returned to instruct in Port Macquarie. While back in Port Macquarie, I got the opportunity to deliver a Cessna 172 from Auckland to Coolangatta. I was there for just over a year before meeting my future wife.
To answer your question about why I should come down? The answer is, I go back to Australia quite often. I am there about two weeks every six months or so. My wife has a very succesful international business and I have a small business of my own. My sister has taken on our family farm and my brother-in-law has a business proposal to put to me involving some American contacts. I have to see him in August anyway.
Finally. My motivations may be simplistic in nature, but I grew up without a father. He died as a result of military service and is buried South of Sydney in a military cemetery. He was dedicated to the defence of a country that at the time was considered to be, "The Lucky Country". Don't you think it is?
I'm starting to think that there are many Australians who are actually starting to give up on Australia. I am not one of them and nor was my father.
I look at the naysayers on this forum, who run like hell at the very notion that they should stand up and be counted and it really worries me!
That's why I'm coming back.
You will see that I wrote in an earlier post that I would respect the anonymity of the people responding to me directly. That word is my bond and I will have to ask for your patience and not answer to you the names of attendees.
I will also be consulting with them as to the very construction of the meeting, it's desired outcomes and what, if any media reporting should be allowed.
Sincerely,
Chris Higgins
0011.1.724.493.0000
[email protected]
At last! Somebody asking some well founded and pertinent questions.
Because I stay 150 nights a year in hotel rooms, I am a platinum member of every hotel chain in the world. I have enough points to cover it, with the exception of a very small catering bill, which I certainly don't mind kicking in for.
I started learning to fly in 1983 at Needham Aviation in Port Macquarie, I was almost 16 so you can do the math, I'm now 36. I flew until October 1990 in Australia and left with just on 2,000 hours, a Senior Commercial Pilots Licence and a current command IFR and Grade 2.
My first employment was with Oxley Airlines as a baggage handler and I worked as a tradesman's assistant in aircraft engineering, mainly on Chieftains. My ground school was taught to me at Sydney Tech. in Ultimo, I finished my tech in 1986 and completed my CPL in early 1987. I went to Tillair and then after one of many recessions was laid off.
All was not lost though I was immediately hired in Mt Isa. When things slowed down again, quite a lot later, I elected to return to Bankstown to get an instructor's rating with Trudy Robbins at Kingsford Smith Aviation and finished it at Dubbo. I finished up an instrument rating with Bill Whitworth and flew some charter on the coast of Whitsunday and later returned to instruct in Port Macquarie. While back in Port Macquarie, I got the opportunity to deliver a Cessna 172 from Auckland to Coolangatta. I was there for just over a year before meeting my future wife.
To answer your question about why I should come down? The answer is, I go back to Australia quite often. I am there about two weeks every six months or so. My wife has a very succesful international business and I have a small business of my own. My sister has taken on our family farm and my brother-in-law has a business proposal to put to me involving some American contacts. I have to see him in August anyway.
Finally. My motivations may be simplistic in nature, but I grew up without a father. He died as a result of military service and is buried South of Sydney in a military cemetery. He was dedicated to the defence of a country that at the time was considered to be, "The Lucky Country". Don't you think it is?
I'm starting to think that there are many Australians who are actually starting to give up on Australia. I am not one of them and nor was my father.
I look at the naysayers on this forum, who run like hell at the very notion that they should stand up and be counted and it really worries me!
That's why I'm coming back.
You will see that I wrote in an earlier post that I would respect the anonymity of the people responding to me directly. That word is my bond and I will have to ask for your patience and not answer to you the names of attendees.
I will also be consulting with them as to the very construction of the meeting, it's desired outcomes and what, if any media reporting should be allowed.
Sincerely,
Chris Higgins
0011.1.724.493.0000
[email protected]
Last edited by Chris Higgins; 27th Jun 2004 at 02:35.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Woomera; eh wantok, you forgot this one.....
'Ave Caesar, te morturi salutant!!'
Mr 'iggins; (with apologies to you and 'enry)
If time and finances permitted I would gladly attend the proposed meeting despite the fact that I'd have nothing to contribute. When it comes to this debate I admit that I'm way, way out of my depth! However I hold the view that ANY forum that may possibly bring attention to this subject and alert the 'powers that be' to the fact that the Bikkies man does not speak for all is better than no debate at all!
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Pinky - Pigin not permitted on PPRuNe!
W
'Ave Caesar, te morturi salutant!!'
Mr 'iggins; (with apologies to you and 'enry)
If time and finances permitted I would gladly attend the proposed meeting despite the fact that I'd have nothing to contribute. When it comes to this debate I admit that I'm way, way out of my depth! However I hold the view that ANY forum that may possibly bring attention to this subject and alert the 'powers that be' to the fact that the Bikkies man does not speak for all is better than no debate at all!
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
Pinky - Pigin not permitted on PPRuNe!
W
Last edited by Woomera; 28th Jun 2004 at 13:53.
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Chris Higgins
You people can chat all you want about what you want. Thankfully there is light at the end of the tunnel and the irrelevant Mr Smith has finally been ignored and people that actually have a schmick have taken over and they are developing a way to stop this incredibly poorly executed reform. Your meeting will achieve nothing other than a few hours of Dick preeching and you sitting in the crowd telling anyone who will listen that you fly planes in Damerica. The details of your meeting are of no consequence.
You people can chat all you want about what you want. Thankfully there is light at the end of the tunnel and the irrelevant Mr Smith has finally been ignored and people that actually have a schmick have taken over and they are developing a way to stop this incredibly poorly executed reform. Your meeting will achieve nothing other than a few hours of Dick preeching and you sitting in the crowd telling anyone who will listen that you fly planes in Damerica. The details of your meeting are of no consequence.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, Chris...you certainly have some "all round" experience in Oz, from what you have let us in on, of your time spent Dunnunda in those "formative years".
There seems to be a twinge of good ole Aussie homesickness - and a desire to "do something" for your birth country, in your posts.....perhaps THAT goes towards explaining your willingness to meet the extra out of pocket expenses (that) you have so graciously dismissed with "...a very small catering bill, which I certainly don't mind kicking in for."
Your obvious knowledge of that unique aviation employee psyche of ALWAYS looking for a "free feed" (but happy to donate mercilessly to less fortunates) is evident.
If you don't mind - at the risk of being boringly repetitive - may I ask, again, "Besides Dick Smith, WHO are the other major players you can guarantee will be there?"
There seems to be a twinge of good ole Aussie homesickness - and a desire to "do something" for your birth country, in your posts.....perhaps THAT goes towards explaining your willingness to meet the extra out of pocket expenses (that) you have so graciously dismissed with "...a very small catering bill, which I certainly don't mind kicking in for."
Your obvious knowledge of that unique aviation employee psyche of ALWAYS looking for a "free feed" (but happy to donate mercilessly to less fortunates) is evident.
If you don't mind - at the risk of being boringly repetitive - may I ask, again, "Besides Dick Smith, WHO are the other major players you can guarantee will be there?"
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Tobzalp,
Maaaate! You should go. You and I worked on LAMP and Resectorisation together. With your knowledge and experience, plus your outstanding wit and forthrightness, you would be a good contributor.
Plus if you take the cheese and kisses for a weekend away in Syd-a-ney, she'll think you're the bees knees.
Take the board and get a surf in at Fairybower.
DP
Maaaate! You should go. You and I worked on LAMP and Resectorisation together. With your knowledge and experience, plus your outstanding wit and forthrightness, you would be a good contributor.
Plus if you take the cheese and kisses for a weekend away in Syd-a-ney, she'll think you're the bees knees.
Take the board and get a surf in at Fairybower.
DP