Cabin door ripped off Jetstar plane, passengers stranded

[spinout]

Can’t wait for some loon to get the frequencies for these push back vehicles and start driving J* aircraft all over the aerodrome

…maybe they will opt not to place the vehicle anywhere near the Main Wheels until the doors are closed…

[pullock]

I muist correct two things here.

FACT: Simon Westaways press report was full of inaccuracy - JETSTAR MAINTENANCE STAFF DO NOT OPERATE THE TARMAC ANY MORE.

FACT: OG3's post concerning the experience of the operator is quite inaccurate. THE 1000 pushbacks is completely inaccurate and grosely overstated

FACT: It was a systematic error that I firmly believe would NOT have happened had an engineer been doing the job as they should be.

FACT: The incident proves systemic problem and thus the reduction of safety that the Jetsafe campaign has talked about, which is one that the regulator CASA has allowed to the detrement of the travelling public.

I can't help that a lot of you pilots are anti-engineer, this is an unhealthy stance to take when it is us who are responsible for the SAFETY of YOU and the passengers every time you fly, and for that, we get paid a pitance and treated like c rap by pilots, FA's and airlines because we are just a necessary expense.

Try working with us and not against us and the industry will be a better place for it.

[retnuhbacs]

Digressing, there remains one fact: Australia has been devoid of DECENT pilot's since 1989, until at least the advent of Virgin Blue (and departed Compass). The ones that "went back" (for not wanting to say the "S" word) were the John West rejects and the opportunists.

Nothing has changed in QAN-DOM and Jetstar. Likely never will until they manage to either seriously hurt or even kill people.

Flame away kiddies, and present and former "S" pilots. You know who I am talking about!


retnubacs wont be playing with us any more boys and girls, first post, offensive user name and THAT topic, not taking sides just moving right along. W

[Woomera]

airsupport

Watch my lips,

I guess a lot of you are just happy to have a job, however it is just so sad that you are prepared to operate LESS safely than Qantas or Virgin Blue.

This sort of "when did you stop beating your wife" form of negative claptrap is getting really really boring.

They have an operating license granted by the same mob that gave Virgin and Qantas theirs, same terms same deal, same hoops blah blah blah.

Lurk R got it in one.

Move on, shape up or ship out.

[BankAngle50]

Pullock is correct when blaming CASA for not maintaining safety. I believe there is a systemic problem with this organisation starting well before the CAA was split down the middle.

I’m guessing if people are trying to make 25 min turn arounds (ie rush) then more of these incidents will follow suit. I’m not quite sure if people should be pointing the finger at Jet* QF or DJ, but perhaps focus on what the regulator (CASA) is doing to protect the travelling public and maintain safety in this industry. If they were doing there job we would all be better off.

Personally I think 25 mins turn arounds are a joke. Commercial pressures like this force walk arounds to be rushed, Cockpit prep to be rushed, scans and checklist to be rushed etc etc… We have all read the Air Crash stories that have resulted from rushing. Ie AEROPERU B757 when the FO was rushing his night walk around and missed a small silver piece of tape covering the static ports. Easy done, especially at night. The end result was a 757 split into a million pieces in a crash that even Boeing test pilots said would have been extremely difficult to prevent. I’m just using this example to reinforce a point. If we are to fly more hours, more sectors, fatigued and be forced to rush quick turns, won’t we see more of incidents. Hence, is this not where the regulator needs to step in???

Don’t think its going to get any better. Fatigue management is just around the corner, where management will rip up CAO48 and we will all be flying Zombies. It just seems that if theres a rule or Reg management don’t like they just get a dispensation to remove the restriction. So much for safety in CASA. Why bother to keep CAO/CAR, just throw them in the bin because if theres a REG you don’t like ask for dispensation. What a joke!

[Buster Hyman]

I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same...

Might be a good time to mention the "crunching" DC-10 door at YMML...just to change the subject back to the thread.

If any of you recall the old articulated "Concorde" BRIDGE ON YMML's D4, you'll know it was always positioned to attach at D1R. Not much of a problem on a 747 or 767, but for the old DC-10's, this was a galley door. Quite narrow.

Well, there I was, young, dumb & full of...err...anyway, we were dispatching CO16 from there & I was just closing the door with those bluddy tiny metal switches that hurt your finger. As the door got to the bottom of the closing stage, about a foot from the floor, there was a God awful crunching sound. The door hesitated & then lurched free into it's closed position. The CO rep & I exchanged concerned glances and decided, with wishfull thinking, to retract the bridge. Just as I was shutting the bridge down, the door reopened. We could see quite a few legs in the doorway as it opened & none of them were in stockings (Not that we could see under the crews trousers!). When it was fully opened, there was the Skipper holding what appeared to be a handle from something. He didn't seem pleased.

What had happened was that, at some stage during the transit, someone had checked or moved the fire extinguisher that was located next to the door 1R. The handle was not stowed correctly & subsequently jammed on the door cowling. Luckily, we thought, the door was fine & closed correctly. Unfortunately for us, the lack of a replacement fire extinguisher was a problem...especially as it was a no go item!!!! A joyous 3 hour delay ensued.

My point was that even when you think there is no possible way a door can get damaged, it can. It doesn't matter who touched the extinguisher, **** happens!

[Kiwiconehead]

FACT: Simon Westaways press report was full of inaccuracy - JETSTAR MAINTENANCE STAFF DO NOT OPERATE THE TARMAC ANY MORE.

Is that all ports? I'm sure I still see the LAMEs on the headset in MEL.

FACT: It was a systematic error that I firmly believe would NOT have happened had an engineer been doing the job as they should be.

I don't agree, if the system failure is there (ie, 2 remotes able to be mixed up) then anyone would be at risk of making the error.

LAMEs are human, I know I am one (a LAME, human part is open for debate), therefore capable of making error.

I've done dumb stuff like telling a pushback driver to start pushing without telling the crew to take the brakes off, result: shear pin gone, 1 LAME looking like a ******** - yet according to all the twaddle written in this thread that can't happen, I am a LAME, I don't make mistakes, I am superhuman demi-god able to sweep all before me.

I think a number of posters in this thread need to take a rather less firm grip of themselves and start moving forward into the 20th century (baby steps, we'll work on the 21st century later)

[Kaptin M]

Although the company I'm with started with 25 minute turnarounds (not through flights), most of the time the return sectors were NOT out on schedule, and it was nothing to do with seats being assigned pre-departure.
If the flights are running near capacity - which I'm sure J* are hoping for - then forget it.

So was this affected flight transiting? Or was it an originating flight? (Just to see what factors were involved, eg. the "hurry up" syndrome.)

pullock states, "I can't help that a lot of you pilots are anti-engineer"
Well that's sure as hell news to me - I know a LOT of pilots, and do not know ONE who is "anti-engineer".
Without you, we ain't goin' nowhere!
We ALL appreciate the hard yards you guys put in - the long hours, cold nights in the hangars, grease, oil and kero soaked, for little reward. It does NOT go unnoticed, pullock, but I guess UNTIL something goes wrong, you're pretty much taken for granted - just as all pax assume that they're going to have an uneventful flight, mechanically, weather-wise, etc.
But please don't tar us (pilots) as "anti-engineer" - it's simply UNTRUE! It seems that you might have struck a "bad apple" at some time, or perhaps misinterpreted what was said at the time.

(And this is not directed at you, pullock - but by way of observation, isn't THIS particular thread attracting some "strange" characters?!! Starting with Chuck)

[airsupport]

I did NOT say that they were doing anything illegal.

Just that they are operating at a lower standard than Qantas and Virgin Blue, which is a fact?

Virgin Blue tried the same thing, but discontinued it.

Even though I have only stated the facts, I will consider myself censored over this incident then, and comment no more on it here.

This censorship will not change the facts though.

[Lurk R]

So was this affected flight transiting? Or was it an originating flight? (Just to see what factors were involved, eg. the "hurry up" syndrome.)

Kaptin, in this instance it is irrelevant isn't it? Does it matter whether the damaged aircraft had a 25 minute or 25 hour layover? At the end of the day it was not intended to be moved but somebody on the ground tried to move it.

[Kaptin M]

I don't feel it's irrelevant, Lurk R - I'm wondering if it were a 25 minute turnaround, whether the pressure to "get the thing out on time" was one of the factors that may have caused the wrong remote to have been activated.
And if it was a scheduled 25 minutes, did they have the FULL 25 minutes available, or did the aircraft arrive late?

After all, there has to be a reason WHY the wrong controller was (i) picked up, (ii) not verified as being the correct one, as there are obviously at least 2 of the critters, and (iii) not checked again before use.

If it wasn't ( a 25 minute t/a) then we could exclude that (hurry-up) pressure factor.

[Icarus2001]

If the explanation of the wrong remote being used turns out to be correct then WTF is going on with certification of this equipment for use in the hazardous (& expensive) environment of an airport ramp?

Look at the "real" world. 15 & 20 Amp plugs will not fit in to 10 amp power outlets. You cannot put leaded petrol in a car designed to take unleaded. Gas fittings are not interchangeable etc etc.

So how on earth can the equipment be "certified" for use with such an obvious oversight. Surely it should be designed as failsafe? Even remote door contols operate on different frequencies or use a rolling code.

[Chuck Magutzup]

Geezus, haven't I copped a flogging whilst I've been off air. Mainly at your hands Kraptin.

THIS particular thread attracting some "strange" characters?!! Starting with Chuck

Go stare at a mirror for a while Kaptin M. You'll be startled when you finally realize that you are a prime candidate for the Pprune Circus Freaks Hall of Fame.

I really don't care whether I am wrong or right in this instance. I am right about one thing. That is that Jetstar is an organisation of scabs and rejects. They are patently unsafe. Time will tell.

[Wizofoz]

Time has already told with your lot, though, hasn't it Chuck? After years of near misses, it's one almighty divet on the fairway (And an APPALLING handling of the incident by all concerned both during and after!) and counting!

The most frightening thing has been, however, that the entrenched attitudes of smug superiority that contributed to that and other incidents (Four "Superior" Qantas pilots sitting on a flight deck, taking off with no flight instruments because none of them understood how an IRS system worked! JEEZZEE!!) still shine through in the words and deeds of such as yourself.

Those of us in the real world know that attitudes like yours are what makes an Airline dangerous.

(And before you trot out the obvious response, yes I went through QF sellection and was offered a Job.. I turned it down largely because it would have meant flying with people like you!!)

[Chuck Magutzup]

Refer to my final paragraph above. An attack on me personally doesn't change the truth in what I have previously stated.

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

It's not Qantas International you need to worry about - it's Qantas Domestic, and that little off-shoot Jetstar....

At least we no longer need concern ourselves with the abhorent safety of Ansett...

[Wizofoz]

Chuck,

You won't be able to reply to this (Aw shucks), but it was not a personal attack on you. It was a highlight of the ingrained attitudes displayed by a frighteningly large number of your ilk.

You are quick to label J* as unsafe, whilst arrogently ignoring that YOUR company has a PROVEN capability to have major accidents and incidents caused largely by these same attitudes!!

And you DON'T seem to be learning from it!!

Oh, and RTA, which of the four organisations you mentioned has come nearest to writting off a Jet airframe?

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

With Angus as CP of J*, I'd be a tad concerned!

'Nuff said!

[Pinky the pilot]

Having just read this thread from the very start the only observation I have is Pharcanell; I wish more people would think as you obviously do!

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Keg]

Easy wiz. You're somewhat throwing the baby out with the bathwater with some of those comments. We all live in pretty sophisticated glass houses.

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