Jetstar cabin cleaning?
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hugh Jarse said,
"cabin crew tidy up at outports. That's the way it's been for the 10 years I've been where I am.
Anyway, it works both ways. Quite regular is
the occurence that the F/A's will help put the
pins and bungs in on terminating flights.
What's wrong with that?"
Nothing if you work for a small outfit, I suppose.
What most of us are referring to is "helping out" on a B737, A320 or bigger A/C, at say Sydney or Melbourne.
Derek
"cabin crew tidy up at outports. That's the way it's been for the 10 years I've been where I am.
Anyway, it works both ways. Quite regular is
the occurence that the F/A's will help put the
pins and bungs in on terminating flights.
What's wrong with that?"
Nothing if you work for a small outfit, I suppose.
What most of us are referring to is "helping out" on a B737, A320 or bigger A/C, at say Sydney or Melbourne.
Derek
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
So...how ARE these 20 minute turnarounds going, not that you J* folk have been operating with them for some time?
Anyone care to hazard a guess what %age of flights actually achieve it?
Anyone care to hazard a guess what %age of flights actually achieve it?
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kapt -
They are 25 min transits. 20 mins is a tad optimistic. There is VERY FEW of them blocked in the schedule. It has always been that way. I reckon the precentage of 25 min transits would be around 10%.
You will find them alot in the morning between the first and second flight. Normally there is no pre-existing delays yet and the cabin is relatively clean. You only ever see 25 min transits at out ports where everything seems to happen quicker anyway.
Haven't seen any 25 min transits blocked for the 320s - only on the 717.
25 min transits are very achievable - even on the 320s. I just don't think it would be clever scheduling as there would be no room for delay. All 320 tranists are blocked at 30 mins. The new schedule has some at 35 mins so maybe there has been some problems getting them truned around.
I have been on flights where we have turned a 320 around in 25 mins but I think the PTS would be hard to follow. They allow 17 mins for the free-for-all that is boarding but it only ever takes 6-8 mins at the best of times.
They are 25 min transits. 20 mins is a tad optimistic. There is VERY FEW of them blocked in the schedule. It has always been that way. I reckon the precentage of 25 min transits would be around 10%.
You will find them alot in the morning between the first and second flight. Normally there is no pre-existing delays yet and the cabin is relatively clean. You only ever see 25 min transits at out ports where everything seems to happen quicker anyway.
Haven't seen any 25 min transits blocked for the 320s - only on the 717.
25 min transits are very achievable - even on the 320s. I just don't think it would be clever scheduling as there would be no room for delay. All 320 tranists are blocked at 30 mins. The new schedule has some at 35 mins so maybe there has been some problems getting them truned around.
I have been on flights where we have turned a 320 around in 25 mins but I think the PTS would be hard to follow. They allow 17 mins for the free-for-all that is boarding but it only ever takes 6-8 mins at the best of times.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Aust.
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi All
I have not been working for Jetstar long, but from what Ditz has described in his posts i have to agree with him. I really must emphasise its not cleaning the cabin its TIDYING, seriously thats all it is! It takes 2 mins to cross the seatbelts and place the safety card at the front of the seat pocket. Its not that bigger deal. And vacumming? There is a vacuum cleaner there but we aren't 'required' to use it. As for the pilots helping out i have seen it a bit, but only at the end of a duty or a longer transit. I think its great! Jetstar has a great team ethic. If we can all pitch in and help each other out, then it makes for a better, happier work environment. Well thats just what i reckon anyway! There definately are a few grumpy bums on this forum!
happy flying
I have not been working for Jetstar long, but from what Ditz has described in his posts i have to agree with him. I really must emphasise its not cleaning the cabin its TIDYING, seriously thats all it is! It takes 2 mins to cross the seatbelts and place the safety card at the front of the seat pocket. Its not that bigger deal. And vacumming? There is a vacuum cleaner there but we aren't 'required' to use it. As for the pilots helping out i have seen it a bit, but only at the end of a duty or a longer transit. I think its great! Jetstar has a great team ethic. If we can all pitch in and help each other out, then it makes for a better, happier work environment. Well thats just what i reckon anyway! There definately are a few grumpy bums on this forum!
happy flying
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This from the FAAA website http://www.faaadomestic.org.au/domes...l/jet23-04.htm
JET23-04 - 8 September, 2004
REMINDER - Vacuuming The Aircraft
This is just a timely reminder vacuuming the aircraft has never been and is still not part of our tidying procedures during aircraft turnarounds.
Our EBA covers our expected duties, if the company requires further assistance from flight attendants for example vacuuming, we should be paid accordingly and this should be done through negotiation.
Jetstar flight attendants are already assisting above and beyond the conditions in our EBA by collecting rubbish from seats on each turnaround, we all know this was not procedure prior to the start up of Jetstar!
Other Jetstar Employees Vacuuming
The relationship and culture we have had with our pilots, ground staff and management to date has been very rare and unique and we don’t want to see this deteriorate any further. There have been many reports of pilots, tac’s and base managers using the vacuums in front of flight attendants inferring “if we can do it why can’t you guys”. Please stand back and let them do this if they so desire; you are not to feel bad about other Jetstar employees cleaning the aircraft. Remember when we were Impulse/Qantas Link, cleaners came on every turnaround and did the same thing. If they are happy performing a duty that they are not paid for and one that someone else used to do, then that’s their business.
At this stage, flight attendants are not required to nor are they paid to clean the aircraft during turnarounds, (you might also ask the question on when we would have time for this in 25 minutes, but that’s another argument for another day). As advised in our previous newsletter, we are all employed under our relevant Enterprise Agreements and currently our Agreement provides for a tidying procedure, a procedure that has never included vacuuming the aircraft on our turnarounds. The Company has stated time and time again that it is committed to the current EBA, well so should we be. If the Company want cleaning to be a new part of our duties and it can be demonstrated that there is no other alternative, then the negotiation table is the place for those discussions to take place, not on board, not on the ground, not in front of other Jetstar staff, only at the negotiating table.
Harassment In The Workplace
It is most disconcerting to your Association and representatives to be advised that flight attendants are being pressured and feeling subsequently harassed by various Jetstar employees, be that management, ground staff or during training courses, to use the vacuum cleaners. Your Association and representatives continue to seek your assistance in providing us with information on these instances as they occur, we see this as encouraging you to work outside the provisions of your EBA.
Our strong advice to members is that regardless of your personal commitment to your EBA and the conditions contained therein, you cannot instruct another flight attendant to either use or not to use the vacuum cleaners. Advising someone of their current EBA conditions, the conditions that you are being paid for, is all you can do. Individuals have a choice and their choice is their own. The FAAA and its representatives do not and will not advocate harassment in the workplace. We strongly advise all flight attendants to be mindful of how your comments could be perceived by someone else.
Remember, the test for harassment in the workplace is not what you say, or indeed how you say it, it is how the person you are talking to feels about what you have said.
Now quite clearly this works both ways in the “should I vacuum, shouldn’t I vacuum” debate. However inferring that crew have an obligation to and indeed new trainees being told they have to, use the vacuum cleaners has done a good enough job of dividing flight attendants on this issue. As a group, it is up to us to ensure this does not get any worse. We all know that we are much better off when we stay united.
Perhaps it would be better for flight attendants to keep a copy of this newsletter with them when flying and if approached and somehow encouraged, in whatever way, to use the vacuum cleaners, you could simply pass on the advice your Association and representatives have provided you with.
Members are directed to comply with their EBA and current practices by continuing to tidy the aircraft. This DOES NOT include using the portable carpet sweepers.
This newsletter was written by the Jetstar Team and authorised by Jo Ann Davidson, Divisional President and Dannielle Morgan, Senior Industrial Organiser
So, there you go fellas. The hosties are not going to be sadie the cleaning lady on the aircraft. But it seems the metrosexual Pilots are going to be housemaids..
You Blokes have got to be kidding. Have some pride!!!!!!!!!!
JET23-04 - 8 September, 2004
REMINDER - Vacuuming The Aircraft
This is just a timely reminder vacuuming the aircraft has never been and is still not part of our tidying procedures during aircraft turnarounds.
Our EBA covers our expected duties, if the company requires further assistance from flight attendants for example vacuuming, we should be paid accordingly and this should be done through negotiation.
Jetstar flight attendants are already assisting above and beyond the conditions in our EBA by collecting rubbish from seats on each turnaround, we all know this was not procedure prior to the start up of Jetstar!
Other Jetstar Employees Vacuuming
The relationship and culture we have had with our pilots, ground staff and management to date has been very rare and unique and we don’t want to see this deteriorate any further. There have been many reports of pilots, tac’s and base managers using the vacuums in front of flight attendants inferring “if we can do it why can’t you guys”. Please stand back and let them do this if they so desire; you are not to feel bad about other Jetstar employees cleaning the aircraft. Remember when we were Impulse/Qantas Link, cleaners came on every turnaround and did the same thing. If they are happy performing a duty that they are not paid for and one that someone else used to do, then that’s their business.
At this stage, flight attendants are not required to nor are they paid to clean the aircraft during turnarounds, (you might also ask the question on when we would have time for this in 25 minutes, but that’s another argument for another day). As advised in our previous newsletter, we are all employed under our relevant Enterprise Agreements and currently our Agreement provides for a tidying procedure, a procedure that has never included vacuuming the aircraft on our turnarounds. The Company has stated time and time again that it is committed to the current EBA, well so should we be. If the Company want cleaning to be a new part of our duties and it can be demonstrated that there is no other alternative, then the negotiation table is the place for those discussions to take place, not on board, not on the ground, not in front of other Jetstar staff, only at the negotiating table.
Harassment In The Workplace
It is most disconcerting to your Association and representatives to be advised that flight attendants are being pressured and feeling subsequently harassed by various Jetstar employees, be that management, ground staff or during training courses, to use the vacuum cleaners. Your Association and representatives continue to seek your assistance in providing us with information on these instances as they occur, we see this as encouraging you to work outside the provisions of your EBA.
Our strong advice to members is that regardless of your personal commitment to your EBA and the conditions contained therein, you cannot instruct another flight attendant to either use or not to use the vacuum cleaners. Advising someone of their current EBA conditions, the conditions that you are being paid for, is all you can do. Individuals have a choice and their choice is their own. The FAAA and its representatives do not and will not advocate harassment in the workplace. We strongly advise all flight attendants to be mindful of how your comments could be perceived by someone else.
Remember, the test for harassment in the workplace is not what you say, or indeed how you say it, it is how the person you are talking to feels about what you have said.
Now quite clearly this works both ways in the “should I vacuum, shouldn’t I vacuum” debate. However inferring that crew have an obligation to and indeed new trainees being told they have to, use the vacuum cleaners has done a good enough job of dividing flight attendants on this issue. As a group, it is up to us to ensure this does not get any worse. We all know that we are much better off when we stay united.
Perhaps it would be better for flight attendants to keep a copy of this newsletter with them when flying and if approached and somehow encouraged, in whatever way, to use the vacuum cleaners, you could simply pass on the advice your Association and representatives have provided you with.
Members are directed to comply with their EBA and current practices by continuing to tidy the aircraft. This DOES NOT include using the portable carpet sweepers.
This newsletter was written by the Jetstar Team and authorised by Jo Ann Davidson, Divisional President and Dannielle Morgan, Senior Industrial Organiser
So, there you go fellas. The hosties are not going to be sadie the cleaning lady on the aircraft. But it seems the metrosexual Pilots are going to be housemaids..
You Blokes have got to be kidding. Have some pride!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: oz
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
world's best practice?
ditzyboy one reason you can board pax that fast is that you cancel pax tickets if they do not check in 30 mins before scheduled departure. even if the flight is running late.
saw two pax yelling at check in chick in Sydney about this, their flight was delayed by 15 mins and they arrived 5 mins late, thus 40 mins prior to actual departure.
were forced to buy new tickets.
not good PR.
saw two pax yelling at check in chick in Sydney about this, their flight was delayed by 15 mins and they arrived 5 mins late, thus 40 mins prior to actual departure.
were forced to buy new tickets.
not good PR.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: caprica
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jakethemuss
Well Jake thanks for the informative post. It just illustrates how far in the clouds some flight attendants are. Ever heard of doing a little bit just to help out and help cement a future. Vacuming? Yeah maybe once every 4 sectors. You also give backing as to why the worlds great and old airlines are going backwards. Keep it up. Eventually you will have no job. Bring in the contract companies you clowns.
Well Jake thanks for the informative post. It just illustrates how far in the clouds some flight attendants are. Ever heard of doing a little bit just to help out and help cement a future. Vacuming? Yeah maybe once every 4 sectors. You also give backing as to why the worlds great and old airlines are going backwards. Keep it up. Eventually you will have no job. Bring in the contract companies you clowns.
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Adama,
If you have time to vacuum on a 25 minute turnaround then good luck to you.
If you think that the savings made to the company by not employing cleaning staff help you kill legacy airlines then good luck to you.
You are a PILOT (I take the liberty of presuming) not a bloody cleaner!
You are paid pretty average wages by all accounts so the savings from not employing cleaners are not handed back to you in your pay packet. Where do they go?
Joyce's Bonus, Oldmeadow's consultancy fees, Gissing's Bonus?
I say again, HAVE SOME PRIDE!
If you have time to vacuum on a 25 minute turnaround then good luck to you.
If you think that the savings made to the company by not employing cleaning staff help you kill legacy airlines then good luck to you.
You are a PILOT (I take the liberty of presuming) not a bloody cleaner!
You are paid pretty average wages by all accounts so the savings from not employing cleaners are not handed back to you in your pay packet. Where do they go?
Joyce's Bonus, Oldmeadow's consultancy fees, Gissing's Bonus?
I say again, HAVE SOME PRIDE!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mydadsbag
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get over yourself Jake!
No pilot is ever told or asked to clean or tidy or whatever else you think pilots should not do. Would u suggest that standing around watching when your own duties are complete would encourage a happy team?
Have some pride indeed and pitch in!
Just look at where QF flighties have found themselves by towing the hard line!
No pilot is ever told or asked to clean or tidy or whatever else you think pilots should not do. Would u suggest that standing around watching when your own duties are complete would encourage a happy team?
Have some pride indeed and pitch in!
Just look at where QF flighties have found themselves by towing the hard line!
Registered User **
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Stuffingsville
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just look at where QF flighties have found themselves by towing the hard line!
If the "suits" have some much spare time on their hands, that they can afford to leave their desk and come to the aircraft to do some vacuuming, why not bring them into their management role on a part time basis and on casual pay rates, to save the Company some money?
At the bloated salaries they receive, they would HAVE to be the most expensive cleaners in all of Australia!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: caprica
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chief Chook
THe old attack and blame on management is a little worn out and getting a wee bit boroing.
Comeon you can do better than that.
THe old attack and blame on management is a little worn out and getting a wee bit boroing.
If the "suits" have some much spare time on their hands, that they can afford to leave their desk and come to the aircraft to do some vacuuming, why not bring them into their management role on a part time basis and on casual pay rates, to save the Company some money?
Registered User **
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Stuffingsville
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps it's justified, commander
The old, attack the wages and conditions of the workers at the coalface whilst rewarding management for the "increased productivity", is wearing MORE than a bit thin.
It's time to offload some of the parasites that are sucking the lifeblood out of airline companies.
Airline management has been the biggest employee growth area over the past dozen years. It's an area whose almost sole sphere of concentration is reduction of employee numbers, increase in work hours and decrease in income. By reducing everyone else's conditions, they justify their own.
The only way they can continue justifying their existence is by continued further erosion of others.
Is that better?
The old, attack the wages and conditions of the workers at the coalface whilst rewarding management for the "increased productivity", is wearing MORE than a bit thin.
It's time to offload some of the parasites that are sucking the lifeblood out of airline companies.
Airline management has been the biggest employee growth area over the past dozen years. It's an area whose almost sole sphere of concentration is reduction of employee numbers, increase in work hours and decrease in income. By reducing everyone else's conditions, they justify their own.
The only way they can continue justifying their existence is by continued further erosion of others.
Is that better?
Vacuming aircraft!
Another group of Australian pilot "revolutionariers".
What irks many of us though, pilot mugs in Australia pay for endorsements, then work for whatever is offered, clean the aircraft and then try their darndest to get into better airline positions ( as evidenced by Jetstar pilots applying aggressively to Emirates and Dragon Air within days of having their licenses stamped Airbus ).
Incidentally, gifted individuals who can set up an Airbus, brief crew and browse opertational documents, vacum an aircraft, all in under 20 minutes.
Another group of Australian pilot "revolutionariers".
What irks many of us though, pilot mugs in Australia pay for endorsements, then work for whatever is offered, clean the aircraft and then try their darndest to get into better airline positions ( as evidenced by Jetstar pilots applying aggressively to Emirates and Dragon Air within days of having their licenses stamped Airbus ).
Incidentally, gifted individuals who can set up an Airbus, brief crew and browse opertational documents, vacum an aircraft, all in under 20 minutes.
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 23rd Oct 2004 at 02:59.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: asia
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let's go rated, you can justify anything to yourself, but inm y opinion you are makinga mistake if you are calling it CRM.
Before you know it, it will be expected and yo will be considered a prick by those very same people you sought to include in your touchy, feely briefings.
Down't downgrade your status by cleaning cabins. When did the FAs last come and help you when things got busy up front, in the interests of CRM.
KaptinM got it right when he mentioned needlestick from assisting with the cleaning. Small risk, but a risk nevertheless.
I'm the Captain of the aircraft and I will involve the Fas in briefings etc. to the extent that they need to be included in the interests of good CRM, but as for cleaning cabins, forget it. If my employer required it he'd be told to get lost.
Before you know it, it will be expected and yo will be considered a prick by those very same people you sought to include in your touchy, feely briefings.
Down't downgrade your status by cleaning cabins. When did the FAs last come and help you when things got busy up front, in the interests of CRM.
KaptinM got it right when he mentioned needlestick from assisting with the cleaning. Small risk, but a risk nevertheless.
I'm the Captain of the aircraft and I will involve the Fas in briefings etc. to the extent that they need to be included in the interests of good CRM, but as for cleaning cabins, forget it. If my employer required it he'd be told to get lost.
It's as obvious as the nose on your faces guys,
This Commander Adama person is a Management stooge.
Don't be fooled by his feeble attempts at a windup...
Do what his moma does and ignore his blathering.
You must have lots of friends mate!
This Commander Adama person is a Management stooge.
Don't be fooled by his feeble attempts at a windup...
Do what his moma does and ignore his blathering.
You must have lots of friends mate!
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: australia
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst I agree that he should be largely ignored, I dont think that adama is management. His writing skills are woeful, and his opinions bizarre.
Wait, hang on, maybe he IS management!
Wait, hang on, maybe he IS management!
