Jetstars First Day- Any Feedback???
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NO, it is a grave safety concern. 
Using your logic, and as far as I am aware Impulse have had no emergency evacuations, why on Earth do Jetstar have flight attendants?
They are obviously NOT needed.
Using your logic, and as far as I am aware Impulse have had no emergency evacuations, why on Earth do Jetstar have flight attendants?
They are obviously NOT needed.
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How about this gem of logic? Lame's with Jetstar are paid more than the pilots. So lets just replace the Lame's with these wonder guys! They will tell you that they are much better anyway, just ask them.
But then, maybe it will be unsafe? It they are paid so little, then surely we can't be getting a particularly good product, can we?
Fly Jetstar. But make certain that your insurance is paid up.
But then, maybe it will be unsafe? It they are paid so little, then surely we can't be getting a particularly good product, can we?
Fly Jetstar. But make certain that your insurance is paid up.
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I wasn't arguing with the logic or the debate - just trying to understand it.
No we haven't had any evacuations, but we've had an attempted hijacking.
Like I said in my last post (to wit no one has answered yet), WHY is this is a problem NOW given that this has been occurring for the last 4 years? How do you convince the beancounters and airline management (whom I also share contempt for in varying degrees) when history at this airline is proving opposite to the argument being made?
It's like the Flight Attendants to some degree. If the FAAA permitted (or in the case of the LAME's, didn't protest) to reduction in crew numbers, and said nothing for 4 years (publicly at least), could you expect anyone to take you seriously AFTER 4 YEARS of operating with reduced crew?
Is it not futile to make this argument AFTER the practice has been run for such a long time, versus making it before the airline (ie. IMPULSE) began operating?
Like I said (again in my last post) I don't agree with what's happened to the LAME's, but it's closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Chuck Magutzup - Eastern/Sunstate Cabin Crew are paid significantly less than mainline crew; even though they operate by themselves and have to deal with everything themselves.
Since when has the Australian public equated worker pay with quality? So long as the price is right, very little matters.
Not how I think, but realistically, do Von and Nev from Albury consider the service Mary-Jo provides on her ABX-SYD flight to be of lesser quality because of what she is paid?
No we haven't had any evacuations, but we've had an attempted hijacking.
Like I said in my last post (to wit no one has answered yet), WHY is this is a problem NOW given that this has been occurring for the last 4 years? How do you convince the beancounters and airline management (whom I also share contempt for in varying degrees) when history at this airline is proving opposite to the argument being made?
It's like the Flight Attendants to some degree. If the FAAA permitted (or in the case of the LAME's, didn't protest) to reduction in crew numbers, and said nothing for 4 years (publicly at least), could you expect anyone to take you seriously AFTER 4 YEARS of operating with reduced crew?
Is it not futile to make this argument AFTER the practice has been run for such a long time, versus making it before the airline (ie. IMPULSE) began operating?
Like I said (again in my last post) I don't agree with what's happened to the LAME's, but it's closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Chuck Magutzup - Eastern/Sunstate Cabin Crew are paid significantly less than mainline crew; even though they operate by themselves and have to deal with everything themselves.
"It they are paid so little, then surely we can't be getting a particularly good product, can we?
Not how I think, but realistically, do Von and Nev from Albury consider the service Mary-Jo provides on her ABX-SYD flight to be of lesser quality because of what she is paid?
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You have to look at the history of all this. 
When Impulse were only virtually a GA outfit with Beech 1900 aircraft etc, they operated to different criteria and although probably safe enough, it was to lower standards than the Major Airlines.
When Qantas took them over, they used these criteria to operate a LCC, and as you said have operated since then more to those criteria, like the lack of LAMEs.
However now they have grown bigger, want to be seen as a Major Airline, and particularly once they get the A320s, they should operate to the same rules and criteria as any other Major Airline.
When Impulse were only virtually a GA outfit with Beech 1900 aircraft etc, they operated to different criteria and although probably safe enough, it was to lower standards than the Major Airlines.
When Qantas took them over, they used these criteria to operate a LCC, and as you said have operated since then more to those criteria, like the lack of LAMEs.
However now they have grown bigger, want to be seen as a Major Airline, and particularly once they get the A320s, they should operate to the same rules and criteria as any other Major Airline.
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lame,
Quote:
I really do feel sorry for you if you work for Jetstar.
Lame, I feel sorry for you!
Quote:
I cannot see where you have ever asked a sensible question in your whole 6 posts.
Quote:
Whoever the Hell you are, with 2 posts, what on Earth gives you the right to specify the criteria for MY credibility.
You obviously believe that someone’s worth is directionally proportional to how many posts they have had on PPRuNe.
You obviously are someone of great importance as you have had over 300 posts, even though many of these are simply "cut and pastes" from newspapers. Weren’t you booted off of PPRuNe a couple of years back for exactly that same thing?
lame, get a life away from your computer that is always logged on to PPRuNe. There’s a whole world out there.
Quote:
I really do feel sorry for you if you work for Jetstar.
Lame, I feel sorry for you!
Quote:
I cannot see where you have ever asked a sensible question in your whole 6 posts.
Quote:
Whoever the Hell you are, with 2 posts, what on Earth gives you the right to specify the criteria for MY credibility.
You obviously believe that someone’s worth is directionally proportional to how many posts they have had on PPRuNe.
You obviously are someone of great importance as you have had over 300 posts, even though many of these are simply "cut and pastes" from newspapers. Weren’t you booted off of PPRuNe a couple of years back for exactly that same thing?
lame, get a life away from your computer that is always logged on to PPRuNe. There’s a whole world out there.
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I see the point you're trying to make Lame.
Perhaps the ALAEA (is that the right spelling?) should have got up Impulse from the start - thus, preventing this issue from snowballing into what it is today?
Sure, no one could have predicted back in the 1900 days that Impulse would have turned into Jetstar - but from little acorns...
Guess it's a hard lesson learnt - and a hard fight to maintain!
Perhaps the ALAEA (is that the right spelling?) should have got up Impulse from the start - thus, preventing this issue from snowballing into what it is today?
Sure, no one could have predicted back in the 1900 days that Impulse would have turned into Jetstar - but from little acorns...
Guess it's a hard lesson learnt - and a hard fight to maintain!
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PHlanger,
Golly yet another moron.
You register, and then use your first and only post to attack me, then you say that it is ME that should get a Life
I suppose you are from Jetstar too.
Mr Seatback 2,
Yes, that is all true sadly, it is probably too late now, unless public (passenger) pressure brings Jetstar into line.
Best regards,
Lame.
Golly yet another moron.
You register, and then use your first and only post to attack me, then you say that it is ME that should get a Life
I suppose you are from Jetstar too.
Mr Seatback 2,
Yes, that is all true sadly, it is probably too late now, unless public (passenger) pressure brings Jetstar into line.
Best regards,
Lame.
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lame -
I don't agree or disagree with you. But you have summed it up well.
"unless public (passenger) pressure brings Jetstar into line..."
Won't happen. Not if the fare is right. Sad but true.
I don't agree or disagree with you. But you have summed it up well.
"unless public (passenger) pressure brings Jetstar into line..."
Won't happen. Not if the fare is right. Sad but true.
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ditzyboy,
Thank you.
That is all I have been doing, expressing a point of view.
There is ONE way that will definitely bring about the necessary changes, but none of us want to see that happen.
Best regards,
Lame.
Thank you.
That is all I have been doing, expressing a point of view.
There is ONE way that will definitely bring about the necessary changes, but none of us want to see that happen.
Best regards,
Lame.
Evertonian
I'm curious as to whether those that believe that LAME's are not required in this instance, also agree with the NAS? Pole's apart I know, but the principle behind it seems the same.
For the record, I feel this industry is being eroded from what it once was & should still be. No, I'm not talking about the "good old days" you, you, you young whipper snappers! A professional industry needs a professional attitude.
As the old saying goes; "Jack of all trades, Master of none!"
For the record, I feel this industry is being eroded from what it once was & should still be. No, I'm not talking about the "good old days" you, you, you young whipper snappers! A professional industry needs a professional attitude.
As the old saying goes; "Jack of all trades, Master of none!"
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Mr Seatback 2 asks, "Why is it a problem now when it hasn't been in the past?
I think because of the planned 25 minute turnarounds that JetStar management are saying are crucial to their obtaining increased productivity.
25 minute turnarounds, with single aisle aircraft and full pax both ways (esp. if there are incap. pax), puts great pressure on ALL staff to "hurry up".
Not least of all the pilots, who - if they are following the international anti-hijack/terrorism procedures - cannot open the cockpit door with pax onboard.
Obviously the aircraft cannot depart until ALL the necessary boxes on the FMC's have been filled in and checked by BOTH crew members,and the T/O data and W&B checked.
Therefore, there is ONE area that leaves itself open to a quick, superficial glance - opening the door of opportunity to miss damage/faults that have occurred on the previous sector. That being the EXTERNAL walk-around check.
That, I believe is lame's point.
These same short turnarounds do NOT apply to the other airlines mentioned - and even then, there have been "oversights".
JetStar is putting ALL of their (reduced) staff under a lot more pressure, simply to try to put a few more pennies into the purse.
It's "fun" for about the first month, after that he novelty wears off, and the reality sets in that you are going to be expected to work like Mad Hatters for the entire rest of your career with this system in place.
The mob I'm with tried it for about 3 years, then gave it away, as cumulative delays eventually ended up in cancelled flights and very angry pax who deserted in droves.
I think because of the planned 25 minute turnarounds that JetStar management are saying are crucial to their obtaining increased productivity.
25 minute turnarounds, with single aisle aircraft and full pax both ways (esp. if there are incap. pax), puts great pressure on ALL staff to "hurry up".
Not least of all the pilots, who - if they are following the international anti-hijack/terrorism procedures - cannot open the cockpit door with pax onboard.
Obviously the aircraft cannot depart until ALL the necessary boxes on the FMC's have been filled in and checked by BOTH crew members,and the T/O data and W&B checked.
Therefore, there is ONE area that leaves itself open to a quick, superficial glance - opening the door of opportunity to miss damage/faults that have occurred on the previous sector. That being the EXTERNAL walk-around check.
That, I believe is lame's point.
These same short turnarounds do NOT apply to the other airlines mentioned - and even then, there have been "oversights".
JetStar is putting ALL of their (reduced) staff under a lot more pressure, simply to try to put a few more pennies into the purse.
It's "fun" for about the first month, after that he novelty wears off, and the reality sets in that you are going to be expected to work like Mad Hatters for the entire rest of your career with this system in place.
The mob I'm with tried it for about 3 years, then gave it away, as cumulative delays eventually ended up in cancelled flights and very angry pax who deserted in droves.
Meanwhile you still be SHARING that drink at the bar in LST 
Although between QF,DJ & JQ you might just be able to afford 2 between the three of you....the FO's can fend for themselves
DJ737
The Roo Rooter
Although between QF,DJ & JQ you might just be able to afford 2 between the three of you....the FO's can fend for themselves
DJ737
The Roo Rooter
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Woomera,
What do you mean I started it.
You mean by invading Poland.
Glad to see you have both good taste in TV shows and a good sense of humour.
Best regards,
Lame.
Sorry to put this here but you locked the interesting thread.
At least it will get this thread nearer to 100 posts and closure...
What do you mean I started it.
You mean by invading Poland.
Glad to see you have both good taste in TV shows and a good sense of humour.
Best regards,
Lame.
Sorry to put this here but you locked the interesting thread.
At least it will get this thread nearer to 100 posts and closure...
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Oi DJ737;
Don't the poor buggers always have to do just that? 
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
The F/O's can fend for themselves.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.
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...strewth!...this lame who say's he ain't the lame that got canned last year is a bloody sight worse than the lame who did get canned...and I didn't think he was too bad!
The other lame that is...are you with me?
This current lame is a drongo!
PS: What's the big deal with 25 min turn arounds? We did it for years in Ansett and TAA! Sure, we would all like more but if you can't do it in 25 there's something wrong!
The other lame that is...are you with me?
This current lame is a drongo!
PS: What's the big deal with 25 min turn arounds? We did it for years in Ansett and TAA! Sure, we would all like more but if you can't do it in 25 there's something wrong!
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Yet another new poster, who does nothing but insult people.
Judging by what you say, I guess you are another Jetstar person.
One BIG difference is that Ansett and TAA were REAL Airlines, with LAMEs doing preflights, so naturally the turnrounds were easier.
IF you are silly enough to try to do it all the time in 25 minutes, without Engineering assistance, then you really are an accident waiting to happen.
I just pray you don't take too many innocent passengers with you.
How is it that several of you new posters today, who all have nothing intelligent to say, even know what happened here last year or years ago?
Could it be that you are all so ashamed of Jetstar that you have to keep registering new names to hide behind.
Judging by what you say, I guess you are another Jetstar person.
One BIG difference is that Ansett and TAA were REAL Airlines, with LAMEs doing preflights, so naturally the turnrounds were easier.
IF you are silly enough to try to do it all the time in 25 minutes, without Engineering assistance, then you really are an accident waiting to happen.
I just pray you don't take too many innocent passengers with you.
How is it that several of you new posters today, who all have nothing intelligent to say, even know what happened here last year or years ago?
Could it be that you are all so ashamed of Jetstar that you have to keep registering new names to hide behind.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
PS: What's the big deal with 25 min turn arounds? We did it for years in Ansett and TAA! Sure, we would all like more but if you can't do it in 25 there's something wrong!
We did THROUGH flights (eg. BNE-ROK-MKY) with 20-25 minutes, and they were done with LAME's to cover the asses of any pilot who did a "cursory" check.
Today, I managed to pick up a job delivering Pizzas!
I have reduced the average time it normally takes the other guys to get from the Pizza Shop to the customer, from 12 minutes down to 10.
It meant exceeding the speed limit by about 10% - but hey, the cops allow a 10% error on your speedo anyway!
I also sped up for the orange (sliced the orange), and in a couple of cases might have just swallowed the cherry - but it was all legal.
The thing that REALLY gave me the balls to do it all, was knowing when to stop drinking, so that I was just under the legal allowable limit.
The Boss said that if they were gunna survive, they needed to increase the number of pizzas each of us could do in an hour.
Man, am I one hot dude now!
And the Boss has commended ME as THE one every other rider has got to aspire to be like!
Later on, the Boss told me that if I didn't want to put on my helmet (I ride a motorcycle) and my gloves, I could probably save the Company another minute or so.
I reckon it's worth it - you know, the chances of having a prang are like 1 in 160,000...........and I'm ALWAYS a careful driver!