Jetstars First Day- Any Feedback???
Persona non grata
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Watchdog,
PLEASE, PLEASE learn to read.
I did NOT say I resigned, quit, through in the towel whatever.
I retired, after over 40 years in the Industry.
Maybe when you have been in the Industry as long, you will have something useful to say.
PLEASE, PLEASE learn to read.
I did NOT say I resigned, quit, through in the towel whatever.
I retired, after over 40 years in the Industry.
Maybe when you have been in the Industry as long, you will have something useful to say.
lame,
Did I say that you resigned from your job? No.
You obviously haven't been involved in any teaching/training if you don't get the drift re "resignation".
Your avoidance in the answering of my question, is noted.
So what group 20 licences did you hold - only for "real airlines" I suppose.
Did I say that you resigned from your job? No.
You obviously haven't been involved in any teaching/training if you don't get the drift re "resignation".
Your avoidance in the answering of my question, is noted.
So what group 20 licences did you hold - only for "real airlines" I suppose.
Persona non grata
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Watchdog,
I cannot see where you have ever asked a sensible question in your whole 6 posts.
What was it?
Where did I say I was involved in teaching?
I have been in Aircraft Engineering ever since leaving College 41 years ago, 36 of those years as an LAME.
Not that it is any of your business of course but I am Licenced on most Aircraft that have operated in Australia with Major Airlines, including the Fokker F27, Viscount, Electra, DC9, MD80, B727, B737, B767, A300, A310, but not the B747.
No amount of insults from you, or trying to discredit me, is going to alter the fact that Jetstar is operating less safely than the other Major Airlines.
I cannot see where you have ever asked a sensible question in your whole 6 posts.
What was it?
Where did I say I was involved in teaching?
I have been in Aircraft Engineering ever since leaving College 41 years ago, 36 of those years as an LAME.
Not that it is any of your business of course
but I am Licenced on most Aircraft that have operated in Australia with Major Airlines, including the Fokker F27, Viscount, Electra, DC9, MD80, B727, B737, B767, A300, A310, but not the B747. No amount of insults from you, or trying to discredit me, is going to alter the fact that Jetstar is operating less safely than the other Major Airlines.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lame -
They have been doing it since 2000. Haven't DJ done it since introducing their NGs? Correct me if I am wrong.
Just went to the Jetsafe website. Not very convincing. Sadly I don't think the majority of the public will care with regular cheap airfares. Sign of the times.
They have been doing it since 2000. Haven't DJ done it since introducing their NGs? Correct me if I am wrong.
Just went to the Jetsafe website. Not very convincing. Sadly I don't think the majority of the public will care with regular cheap airfares. Sign of the times.
oh so now its
how your story changes....if you are looking again for my question, put on your reading glasses ol-timer and take a look at my earlier post where i asked"
Otherwise, stick to the lawn bowls and playing bingo
other Major Airlines.
In what way ?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Frozen Chunks (Cloud Cuckoo Land)
Age: 17
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think what you are missing is that aviation should be increasing safety, not reducing it to the minimum margins.
When an engineer does a walk around he looks at aeroplance condition from an engineering perspective - when a pilot does a walk around, he essentially looks at things in terms of "obvious" visibile damage. (Remember the pilot is not trained as an engineer, and chances are he has been given minimal instruction in what to look at for a walkaround anyway).
The next point, where would you rather your pilot be anyway? Preparing up the front for the flight, or in a time compressed rush, running around the outside and then squeezing in all the duties required up front?
I believe the Jetstar turn arounds are fairly minimal - it should take around 10 minutes for an thorough exterior inspection (of course depending on plane size).
Its all about safety - people always talk about the error model in aviation - called the swiss cheese model - now instead of making one of the barriers line up to allow an error to go through unchecked - we are removing the barrier completely!
Anyway - i am sure people have lots of opinions on this.
When an engineer does a walk around he looks at aeroplance condition from an engineering perspective - when a pilot does a walk around, he essentially looks at things in terms of "obvious" visibile damage. (Remember the pilot is not trained as an engineer, and chances are he has been given minimal instruction in what to look at for a walkaround anyway).
The next point, where would you rather your pilot be anyway? Preparing up the front for the flight, or in a time compressed rush, running around the outside and then squeezing in all the duties required up front?
I believe the Jetstar turn arounds are fairly minimal - it should take around 10 minutes for an thorough exterior inspection (of course depending on plane size).
Its all about safety - people always talk about the error model in aviation - called the swiss cheese model - now instead of making one of the barriers line up to allow an error to go through unchecked - we are removing the barrier completely!
Anyway - i am sure people have lots of opinions on this.
Persona non grata
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Virgin Blue started doing it, but were caught out so many times, including by CASA Safety Inspectors, that they now follow Jetsafe.
Jetstar are the only Major (and I use the term loosely ) Airline that does NOT follow Jetsafe, and the Public are fast realising this.
Jetstar are the only Major (and I use the term loosely
) Airline that does NOT follow Jetsafe, and the Public are fast realising this.
Blueloo,
I totally agree - the more eyes on the ship the more chance of detection. Unfortunately, the bean counters call the shots unless they are forced by regulation....then up goes the cost = bean counters not happy.
Lame,
I call REX, SUNSTATE, EASTERN.....etc Major airlines too, sure they have turbo prop engines but they can crash just as easy as a JET.
You not acknowledging that these are airlines is an insult to all of us working for them.
I totally agree - the more eyes on the ship the more chance of detection. Unfortunately, the bean counters call the shots unless they are forced by regulation....then up goes the cost = bean counters not happy.
Lame,
I call REX, SUNSTATE, EASTERN.....etc Major airlines too, sure they have turbo prop engines but they can crash just as easy as a JET.
You not acknowledging that these are airlines is an insult to all of us working for them.
Persona non grata
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Watchdog,
As I have said on other threads that seem determined to ruin, I really do feel sorry for you if you work for Jetstar.
Those Airlines you quote are NOT Majors, they are Regionals or Commuters, but NOT Majors.
I am NOT insulting anyone, that is just the way it is.
You are just stirring to try to deflect any criticism at all of Jetstar, and the FACT that they are NOT Jetsafe.
As I have said on other threads that seem determined to ruin, I really do feel sorry for you if you work for Jetstar.
Those Airlines you quote are NOT Majors, they are Regionals or Commuters, but NOT Majors.
I am NOT insulting anyone, that is just the way it is.
You are just stirring to try to deflect any criticism at all of Jetstar, and the FACT that they are NOT Jetsafe.
lame,
hahahaha - stuck a nerve now.
Whilst you probably cant remember, you originally stated that it was any airline in OZ, now you say MAJOR airline....accordingly your original claim is flawed.
Lame credibility = 0
Wind up complete
hahahaha - stuck a nerve now.
Whilst you probably cant remember, you originally stated that it was any airline in OZ, now you say MAJOR airline....accordingly your original claim is flawed.
Lame credibility = 0
Wind up complete
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: In a box, ready for shipping...
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've asked this on another thread, which seems to have been hijacked by similar ideals.
What evidence is there that Jetstar is unsafe?
With specific regard to actual incidents at Impulse, QantasLink and now Jetstar?
Opinion is not evidence.
What evidence is there that Jetstar is unsafe?
With specific regard to actual incidents at Impulse, QantasLink and now Jetstar?
Opinion is not evidence.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Torque wremches at 10 paces..
I think I can see where you're coming from, Watchdog, in your own words
So as long as the bean counters tell you that SAFETY is unaffordable, you're happy to go along with that.
Start off by whittling down costs by excluding LAME's from the external checks, next replace LAME's with "artisans".
Then it's decided - by the beanies - for COST sake, genuine parts are just too expensive, and that counterfeit ones work just as well for 1/5 the price...It's all about staying competitive, you know.
Quite honestly, Watchdog I sincerely hope that, with an attitude such as your's, I NEVER have to fly on an aircraft (as pax or crew) for which YOU have been responsible dispatching.
That you are arguing FOR making a system LESS SAFE is truly unbelievable!
I think I can see where you're coming from, Watchdog, in your own words
Unfortunately, the bean counters call the shots unless they are forced by regulation....then up goes the cost = bean counters not happy.
Start off by whittling down costs by excluding LAME's from the external checks, next replace LAME's with "artisans".
Then it's decided - by the beanies - for COST sake, genuine parts are just too expensive, and that counterfeit ones work just as well for 1/5 the price...It's all about staying competitive, you know.
Quite honestly, Watchdog I sincerely hope that, with an attitude such as your's, I NEVER have to fly on an aircraft (as pax or crew) for which YOU have been responsible dispatching.
That you are arguing FOR making a system LESS SAFE is truly unbelievable!
Persona non grata
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well for starters, that is my opinion.
I cannot see how anyone could think otherwise.
I did not (I hope) ever say that Jetstar WAS unsafe, just that it is LESS safe than Qantas or Virgin Blue. (I am not going to say the other Majors again).
For the last 50 years or so, we have always had a system where most Aircraft of the Main Airlines have routinely at most Airports had BOTH an LAME and one of the Pilots carry out independent preflight checks.
Now this MUST be safer, okay more costly, but SAFER.
Three independent checks would be even safer, and four safer still, etc etc.
Virgin Blue tried it with no LAME, but have since reversed the decision, partly due to pressure for the ALAEA, but also they were caught out on spot checks by CASA Inspectors.
I am sure that sometimes even an LAME may miss something, and I know Pilots have sometimes as I have been involved in some such incidents, but am reluctant to post details here of course.
That is why it is SAFER, but more EXPENSIVE, to have both the Pilot and an LAME check each Aircraft.
Jetstar are currently the ONLY Main Airline that refuses to do this, ergo they are LESS safe than Qantas or Virgin Blue.
I cannot see how anyone could think otherwise.
I did not (I hope) ever say that Jetstar WAS unsafe, just that it is LESS safe than Qantas or Virgin Blue. (I am not going to say the other Majors again).
For the last 50 years or so, we have always had a system where most Aircraft of the Main Airlines have routinely at most Airports had BOTH an LAME and one of the Pilots carry out independent preflight checks.
Now this MUST be safer, okay more costly, but SAFER.
Three independent checks would be even safer, and four safer still, etc etc.
Virgin Blue tried it with no LAME, but have since reversed the decision, partly due to pressure for the ALAEA, but also they were caught out on spot checks by CASA Inspectors.
I am sure that sometimes even an LAME may miss something, and I know Pilots have sometimes as I have been involved in some such incidents, but am reluctant to post details here of course.
That is why it is SAFER, but more EXPENSIVE, to have both the Pilot and an LAME check each Aircraft.
Jetstar are currently the ONLY Main Airline that refuses to do this, ergo they are LESS safe than Qantas or Virgin Blue.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: In a box, ready for shipping...
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So you're looking at it from a speculative/statistical standpoint then??
Given that there are no incidents that I'm aware of within Impulse -> Jetstar that have occurred arising from the lack of a LAME, is the fear borne from what MIGHT happen?
I guess what I'm finding strange is that there is this giant wave of anti-Jetstar sentiment arising from no LAME's doing the preflight, when Impulse has been doing this with little (if any that I've noticed) for the past 4 years. Current practice that always has been the norm.
Not saying I agree with it - but just trying to understand the logic. Why is it a problem now when it hasn't been in the past?
Given that there are no incidents that I'm aware of within Impulse -> Jetstar that have occurred arising from the lack of a LAME, is the fear borne from what MIGHT happen?
I guess what I'm finding strange is that there is this giant wave of anti-Jetstar sentiment arising from no LAME's doing the preflight, when Impulse has been doing this with little (if any that I've noticed) for the past 4 years. Current practice that always has been the norm.
Not saying I agree with it - but just trying to understand the logic. Why is it a problem now when it hasn't been in the past?