Slanderous Smith Comments
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Slanderous Smith Comments
Station: 4BC Program: John & Ross Breakfast Show
Aired On: 15/04/2004 6:48 AM
John Miller and Ross Davie talk to Dick Smith regarding his media release out this morning. Smith says the controversy surrounding the new air space arrangements for Australia is a beat up. Smith says the latest figures show that since the introduction of the new arrangements, there has been a 21% reduction in aircraft near misses. Smith says our airspace is safer now than ever. Smith says the Aviation Reform Group, set up by Min John Anderson, to oversee the implementation of the new arrangements included professional pilots. Most notably in the Group was Angus Houston, the Head of the Air Force. Smith talks about the serious incident from last week where it is claimed by air traffic controllers that a Virgin plane was allowed to descend to within 400 feet of another plane. He says the air traffic controller allowed the situation to occur and claims it was a "basically criminal" action. Smith says the same thing happened in Melbourne a few weeks ago. Smith says professional air traffic controllers were not included in the Aviation Reform Group because they naturally have a self-interest in making sure there is as many air traffic controllers employed as possible. He says for the past 13 years, government has tried to move forward to a modern airspace system but air traffic controllers have run a very effective industrial campaign to stop any such moves. Smith goes on to talk up the current new system saying it is the same type of system being successful utilised in America, Canada and Europe. Smith says he believes that air traffic controllers are now deliberately manipulating the system to justify their own existence. He says they are risking people's lives for an industrial agenda.
Interview: Dick Smith, Former Foundation Member of the Aviation Reform Group
Aired On: 15/04/2004 6:48 AM
John Miller and Ross Davie talk to Dick Smith regarding his media release out this morning. Smith says the controversy surrounding the new air space arrangements for Australia is a beat up. Smith says the latest figures show that since the introduction of the new arrangements, there has been a 21% reduction in aircraft near misses. Smith says our airspace is safer now than ever. Smith says the Aviation Reform Group, set up by Min John Anderson, to oversee the implementation of the new arrangements included professional pilots. Most notably in the Group was Angus Houston, the Head of the Air Force. Smith talks about the serious incident from last week where it is claimed by air traffic controllers that a Virgin plane was allowed to descend to within 400 feet of another plane. He says the air traffic controller allowed the situation to occur and claims it was a "basically criminal" action. Smith says the same thing happened in Melbourne a few weeks ago. Smith says professional air traffic controllers were not included in the Aviation Reform Group because they naturally have a self-interest in making sure there is as many air traffic controllers employed as possible. He says for the past 13 years, government has tried to move forward to a modern airspace system but air traffic controllers have run a very effective industrial campaign to stop any such moves. Smith goes on to talk up the current new system saying it is the same type of system being successful utilised in America, Canada and Europe. Smith says he believes that air traffic controllers are now deliberately manipulating the system to justify their own existence. He says they are risking people's lives for an industrial agenda.
Interview: Dick Smith, Former Foundation Member of the Aviation Reform Group
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Care to expand on this Dick. You can even call me to discuss it.
1300 301 120
Ask for cell 9 with all the other criminals.
we get your point, easy does it . W
1300 301 120
Ask for cell 9 with all the other criminals.
we get your point, easy does it . W
Last edited by Woomera; 15th Apr 2004 at 04:29.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
No doubt about it, SM4, he's lost his marbles.
But the abuse here won't achieve anything, as I believe that almost ALL professional pilots and ATC'ers are against Dangerous Dick's deadly Errspace.
The best counter is for the representative groups of the ATC'ers and pilots to contact the media (in this case 4BC) and request equal time on the air to present the FACTS (vs the "I believe" bs!).
But the abuse here won't achieve anything, as I believe that almost ALL professional pilots and ATC'ers are against Dangerous Dick's deadly Errspace.
The best counter is for the representative groups of the ATC'ers and pilots to contact the media (in this case 4BC) and request equal time on the air to present the FACTS (vs the "I believe" bs!).
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This is the level you will sink to, Dick?
Accusing professional ATCO's of criminal actions? Of deliberately endangering the public (and pilots btw) to further an industrial agenda?
Unbelievable..
PS, if I was the ATCO involved in this situation, I'd be contacting my lawyers.
Accusing professional ATCO's of criminal actions? Of deliberately endangering the public (and pilots btw) to further an industrial agenda?
Unbelievable..
PS, if I was the ATCO involved in this situation, I'd be contacting my lawyers.
Last edited by The_Cutest_of_Borg; 15th Apr 2004 at 01:38.
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Dick Smith fights tooth and nail to push through this airspace reform in spite of the deafening calls from most in the industry that it achieves nothing at a great cost to safety.
When it comes to bear exactly that fruit he blames the Air traffic controllers from whom he has taken the separation responsibility.
Dick you claim 21% reduction in near misses? OK. Well I claim a 2342% reduction in safety. How is my figure calculated? Well about as scientifically as yours. I believe it.
If you had any credibility left you just lost it.
My reaction is not limited to this forum. I will be challenging you at all levels available.
YOU are the threat to air safety in this country - everyone knows it - except one person.
When it comes to bear exactly that fruit he blames the Air traffic controllers from whom he has taken the separation responsibility.
Dick you claim 21% reduction in near misses? OK. Well I claim a 2342% reduction in safety. How is my figure calculated? Well about as scientifically as yours. I believe it.
If you had any credibility left you just lost it.
My reaction is not limited to this forum. I will be challenging you at all levels available.
YOU are the threat to air safety in this country - everyone knows it - except one person.
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Transcript from Radio 4BC
JOHN MILLER: Well, a media release out this morning from the redoubtable Mr Dick Smith, who would probably be one of the best known and much admired Australians.
And in part of this media release he says, of course... it's about the new air traffic control arrangements, or air space arrangements, I should say, for Australia, which have been the subject of much controversy in recent times.
In part of the release Dick says, of course, I don't expect the media to use this press release as there's an unwritten rule that you only write stories like close call points to air safety time bomb and we're all going to die.
Well, here we are, Dick, good morning.
DICK SMITH: Hello Ross. How are you?
ROSS DAVIE: Good thank you, Dick. How are you doing?
SMITH: Wonderful, really fantastic. No, the main thing is the media release is good news, and I'm delighted you're talking to me, that despite the beat ups, by especially the Air Traffic Controllers Association.
In fact, there's just... the latest figures show there's been a 21 per cent reduction in these near misses since we've brought in the new air space. And this was exactly as planned by John Anderson, the minister. The air space, it's safer than ever to fly, so have a lot of confidence if you're flying.
MILLER: Dick, you were a foundation member of the Aviation Reform Group, which was set up by John Anderson to oversee the implementation of this United States style air space system in Australia.
SMITH: That's right.
MILLER: Did that group include any professional pilots and professional air traffic controllers?
SMITH: Well, by crikey, it certainly... the most professional person there was Angus Houston, who is the head of the Air Force, who's flown, of course, jets, flown extensively in the United States. So you couldn't have anyone better than that. But...
MILLER: But did it include any... sorry to interrupt, Dick, but did it include any currently serving commercial or general aviation professional pilots or currently serving professional air traffic controllers?
SMITH: No, no, it didn't, because the minute you do that, what they insist on is you basically go back to the 1950s.
See the problem is that especially the professional air traffic controllers, they are specifically trained to follow rules and not to ever change rules. And so they just constantly run a campaign, they want to talk about this, very important, to stop any change to the future, any move forward.
Now you had a serious incident in Brisbane last week where a Virgin plane was allowed to descend to within 400 feet, it's claimed, by the air traffic controllers, of another plane. Now, I can tell you now, that is the most terrible thing I've ever heard. Anywhere else in the world, the air traffic controller would have said to the Virgin plane, stop your descent at 16,000 feet or whatever it is, I have a small plane below you.
MILLER: Sure.
SMITH: What the air traffic... you're saying, sure. The air traffic controller allowed the Virgin plane to descend right into the smaller plane. By the way, both planes were on radar, both planes were talking to air traffic control. The air traffic controller allowed this to happen. It's basically criminal.
They did the same thing in Melbourne a few weeks ago where they turned a small plane, under radar control, under the Virgin plane, and then let the Virgin plane descend right on the top of it again.
MILLER: Okay Dick, that wasn't a dismissive sure, I was agreeing with you. Incidents like that are deplorable, but accidents will happen, nobody... given that human nature is not perfect.
However, let's get back to this issue of not having professional air traffic controllers and professional commercial pilots on these... on this committee, or whatever.
SMITH: Yep.
MILLER: I mean surely if you're going to design a bus, you talk to the bus driver, don't you?
SMITH: Yes, the problem is that the professional air traffic controllers naturally have a self interest in making sure there's as many air traffic controllers employed as possible. So what's happened, for thirteen years, when the government's tried to move forward to a modern air space system... And by the way, this one is not just the US system, it's the system used in Canada, used in Europe, it's simply the most efficient in the world.
What's happened over the years, the air traffic controllers have run a very effective industrial campaign to stop any move forward to a more efficient system. We've now got that system, and they're running a campaign to destroy it.
Because, can you imagine, Qantas does about 70 per cent of the flying, but they've had none of these near miss records. Now Qantas flies constantly in the United States. More to the point Virgin Atlantic, the sister airline owned by Richard Branson as well, flies dozens and dozens of flights in the United States through this class Echo air space that we have in Brisbane. They never have a problem. But we've had three. And the one last week was so horrific I cannot believe it.
But what's worse, the pilot, who's a 25,000 hour pilot of the small plane, who was flying from Maroochy to St George, and nearly had this plane run into him, he was told by the Air Traffic Safe... the Air Transport Safety Board that, oh, he should have called up the Virgin plane and start talking to it. Now that's the 1950s system. We now have radar, and air traffic control is supposed to not descend one plane into another.
MILLER: Look, I haven't spoken - and I know a few - I have not spoken to one professional jet jockey, and these are guys included who are trainers, and trainers on big aeroplanes like 767s and 747s, I've not spoken to one of them who's had a kind word to say about this system.
SMITH: Yes, that's right, because you know what they're saying...
MILLER: This is the pilots, not the controllers.
SMITH: ...Yeah, I'll explain to you. What they're saying is, we won't... we don't want small planes in commercial air space. Now, there's no such thing as commercial air space. That would be like the bus drivers saying, look, we don't want private cars on our roads. Now that would be...
MILLER: Yeah, but the private cars aren't doing 600 mile an hour.
SMITH: No, but what's been shown throughout the world, and throughout Australia, small planes and large planes can mix perfectly safely, as long as you have the right rules. At the moment Qantas have sixteen jet movements a day into Ayers Rock, it's in class G air space, the lowest safety level, and it works perfectly safely.
Above Brisbane we have class Echo air space, which is the same as... above Los Angeles, above JFK Airport, where Qantas fly everyday, works in perfect safety in the United States.
But the pilots are saying here, oh no, it can't work in Australia, cannot work here, and then for this extraordinary reason we're getting these planes that are so close that the collision avoidance system goes off.
Now I've read each of these reports, and if you use commonsense, the air traffic controller would not allow one plane to descend into the other.
In the particular case of the one in Brisbane, the Virgin plane has it on its special little screen, because all of these small planes have to have a special black box transponder, but the Virgin pilot kept descending, so he got to within 400 feet of the small plane. Now we've got to find out why.
DAVIE: So Dick, can I summarise, and unless I've got the bull by the tail here, you're saying that the air traffic controllers are deliberately, if you like, manipulating the system to justify their own existence?
SMITH: That's all I can work out, because what could any other explanation be? Why would you let... let me explain this to you. There was a Virgin plane coming in from the Townsville to Brisbane. There was a small plane going from Maroochydore to St George. So they were going to cross. Both were talking to air traffic control.
The air traffic controller kept saying to the Virgin plane, I've got a small plane crossing, I've got a small plane crossing, have you sighted it? Trying to say that he had to see it. Whereas in the international system - and anyone listening will say this is commonsense - all he had to do was limit the descent of the Virgin plane until the small plane had passed.
That what happens everyday. I've sat in the Qantas flight deck going into LA, that's exactly what they do, it works in perfect safety. Here they are stirring this up and risking people's lives for an industrial agenda.
MILLER: Dick, what do you say to assertions then that this has all been left in the hands of, in your case, a gifted amateur?
SMITH: Well, that's what's said all the time, but let me explain this, that what the government decided after thirteen years of not moving ahead to this safer air space system, they said, look, we want to set up a group.
I was just one member of it. As I explained to you, had the top of the Air Force, because he's flown in the United States, he's a commercial pilot of the ultimate experience. And what we did was we were given the job to look around and say, what's the best air space system for Australia?
And we looked around, and the American system, because of the enormous amount of wealth that country has, and because of the fact that everyone sues everyone else, it's evolved into the safest air space system in the world. It's basically like a 747. It's incredibly safe.
Now ten years ago, I bought [sic] in rules, which the pilots were against, that allowed standard Boeing 747s to operate here without being modified. In other words, we could have a standard 747, which you're now flying with Qantas, that can operate here without being modified. That's what we're trying to do with the air space.
But, I've just one very important point to make, John and Ross, and that is that what the air traffic control company has done, we, and in this aviation reform group, believed that they would get some American experts out here when they introduced the air space.
They have refused, they have undermined the minister in every way, and they've said to him, oh look, we wrote to the Federal Aviation Authority three months ago, but they never answered us.
So you've got an American air space system coming in here, but no American government experts standing in the towers, behind the radar screens, monitoring that we're doing what they do in America. And I can tell you, we're not doing that because the Air Traffic Control Association is running a campaign to stop this from working because they know it's more efficient.
MILLER: Okay Dick, good to talk to you this morning, thank you.
SMITH: Thank you.
MILLER: And we'll be seeking some response from the Air Traffic Controllers Association of that little lot.
DAVIE: Rather alarming claims there.
Media Release from CivilAir
JOHN MILLER: Well, a media release out this morning from the redoubtable Mr Dick Smith, who would probably be one of the best known and much admired Australians.
And in part of this media release he says, of course... it's about the new air traffic control arrangements, or air space arrangements, I should say, for Australia, which have been the subject of much controversy in recent times.
In part of the release Dick says, of course, I don't expect the media to use this press release as there's an unwritten rule that you only write stories like close call points to air safety time bomb and we're all going to die.
Well, here we are, Dick, good morning.
DICK SMITH: Hello Ross. How are you?
ROSS DAVIE: Good thank you, Dick. How are you doing?
SMITH: Wonderful, really fantastic. No, the main thing is the media release is good news, and I'm delighted you're talking to me, that despite the beat ups, by especially the Air Traffic Controllers Association.
In fact, there's just... the latest figures show there's been a 21 per cent reduction in these near misses since we've brought in the new air space. And this was exactly as planned by John Anderson, the minister. The air space, it's safer than ever to fly, so have a lot of confidence if you're flying.
MILLER: Dick, you were a foundation member of the Aviation Reform Group, which was set up by John Anderson to oversee the implementation of this United States style air space system in Australia.
SMITH: That's right.
MILLER: Did that group include any professional pilots and professional air traffic controllers?
SMITH: Well, by crikey, it certainly... the most professional person there was Angus Houston, who is the head of the Air Force, who's flown, of course, jets, flown extensively in the United States. So you couldn't have anyone better than that. But...
MILLER: But did it include any... sorry to interrupt, Dick, but did it include any currently serving commercial or general aviation professional pilots or currently serving professional air traffic controllers?
SMITH: No, no, it didn't, because the minute you do that, what they insist on is you basically go back to the 1950s.
See the problem is that especially the professional air traffic controllers, they are specifically trained to follow rules and not to ever change rules. And so they just constantly run a campaign, they want to talk about this, very important, to stop any change to the future, any move forward.
Now you had a serious incident in Brisbane last week where a Virgin plane was allowed to descend to within 400 feet, it's claimed, by the air traffic controllers, of another plane. Now, I can tell you now, that is the most terrible thing I've ever heard. Anywhere else in the world, the air traffic controller would have said to the Virgin plane, stop your descent at 16,000 feet or whatever it is, I have a small plane below you.
MILLER: Sure.
SMITH: What the air traffic... you're saying, sure. The air traffic controller allowed the Virgin plane to descend right into the smaller plane. By the way, both planes were on radar, both planes were talking to air traffic control. The air traffic controller allowed this to happen. It's basically criminal.
They did the same thing in Melbourne a few weeks ago where they turned a small plane, under radar control, under the Virgin plane, and then let the Virgin plane descend right on the top of it again.
MILLER: Okay Dick, that wasn't a dismissive sure, I was agreeing with you. Incidents like that are deplorable, but accidents will happen, nobody... given that human nature is not perfect.
However, let's get back to this issue of not having professional air traffic controllers and professional commercial pilots on these... on this committee, or whatever.
SMITH: Yep.
MILLER: I mean surely if you're going to design a bus, you talk to the bus driver, don't you?
SMITH: Yes, the problem is that the professional air traffic controllers naturally have a self interest in making sure there's as many air traffic controllers employed as possible. So what's happened, for thirteen years, when the government's tried to move forward to a modern air space system... And by the way, this one is not just the US system, it's the system used in Canada, used in Europe, it's simply the most efficient in the world.
What's happened over the years, the air traffic controllers have run a very effective industrial campaign to stop any move forward to a more efficient system. We've now got that system, and they're running a campaign to destroy it.
Because, can you imagine, Qantas does about 70 per cent of the flying, but they've had none of these near miss records. Now Qantas flies constantly in the United States. More to the point Virgin Atlantic, the sister airline owned by Richard Branson as well, flies dozens and dozens of flights in the United States through this class Echo air space that we have in Brisbane. They never have a problem. But we've had three. And the one last week was so horrific I cannot believe it.
But what's worse, the pilot, who's a 25,000 hour pilot of the small plane, who was flying from Maroochy to St George, and nearly had this plane run into him, he was told by the Air Traffic Safe... the Air Transport Safety Board that, oh, he should have called up the Virgin plane and start talking to it. Now that's the 1950s system. We now have radar, and air traffic control is supposed to not descend one plane into another.
MILLER: Look, I haven't spoken - and I know a few - I have not spoken to one professional jet jockey, and these are guys included who are trainers, and trainers on big aeroplanes like 767s and 747s, I've not spoken to one of them who's had a kind word to say about this system.
SMITH: Yes, that's right, because you know what they're saying...
MILLER: This is the pilots, not the controllers.
SMITH: ...Yeah, I'll explain to you. What they're saying is, we won't... we don't want small planes in commercial air space. Now, there's no such thing as commercial air space. That would be like the bus drivers saying, look, we don't want private cars on our roads. Now that would be...
MILLER: Yeah, but the private cars aren't doing 600 mile an hour.
SMITH: No, but what's been shown throughout the world, and throughout Australia, small planes and large planes can mix perfectly safely, as long as you have the right rules. At the moment Qantas have sixteen jet movements a day into Ayers Rock, it's in class G air space, the lowest safety level, and it works perfectly safely.
Above Brisbane we have class Echo air space, which is the same as... above Los Angeles, above JFK Airport, where Qantas fly everyday, works in perfect safety in the United States.
But the pilots are saying here, oh no, it can't work in Australia, cannot work here, and then for this extraordinary reason we're getting these planes that are so close that the collision avoidance system goes off.
Now I've read each of these reports, and if you use commonsense, the air traffic controller would not allow one plane to descend into the other.
In the particular case of the one in Brisbane, the Virgin plane has it on its special little screen, because all of these small planes have to have a special black box transponder, but the Virgin pilot kept descending, so he got to within 400 feet of the small plane. Now we've got to find out why.
DAVIE: So Dick, can I summarise, and unless I've got the bull by the tail here, you're saying that the air traffic controllers are deliberately, if you like, manipulating the system to justify their own existence?
SMITH: That's all I can work out, because what could any other explanation be? Why would you let... let me explain this to you. There was a Virgin plane coming in from the Townsville to Brisbane. There was a small plane going from Maroochydore to St George. So they were going to cross. Both were talking to air traffic control.
The air traffic controller kept saying to the Virgin plane, I've got a small plane crossing, I've got a small plane crossing, have you sighted it? Trying to say that he had to see it. Whereas in the international system - and anyone listening will say this is commonsense - all he had to do was limit the descent of the Virgin plane until the small plane had passed.
That what happens everyday. I've sat in the Qantas flight deck going into LA, that's exactly what they do, it works in perfect safety. Here they are stirring this up and risking people's lives for an industrial agenda.
MILLER: Dick, what do you say to assertions then that this has all been left in the hands of, in your case, a gifted amateur?
SMITH: Well, that's what's said all the time, but let me explain this, that what the government decided after thirteen years of not moving ahead to this safer air space system, they said, look, we want to set up a group.
I was just one member of it. As I explained to you, had the top of the Air Force, because he's flown in the United States, he's a commercial pilot of the ultimate experience. And what we did was we were given the job to look around and say, what's the best air space system for Australia?
And we looked around, and the American system, because of the enormous amount of wealth that country has, and because of the fact that everyone sues everyone else, it's evolved into the safest air space system in the world. It's basically like a 747. It's incredibly safe.
Now ten years ago, I bought [sic] in rules, which the pilots were against, that allowed standard Boeing 747s to operate here without being modified. In other words, we could have a standard 747, which you're now flying with Qantas, that can operate here without being modified. That's what we're trying to do with the air space.
But, I've just one very important point to make, John and Ross, and that is that what the air traffic control company has done, we, and in this aviation reform group, believed that they would get some American experts out here when they introduced the air space.
They have refused, they have undermined the minister in every way, and they've said to him, oh look, we wrote to the Federal Aviation Authority three months ago, but they never answered us.
So you've got an American air space system coming in here, but no American government experts standing in the towers, behind the radar screens, monitoring that we're doing what they do in America. And I can tell you, we're not doing that because the Air Traffic Control Association is running a campaign to stop this from working because they know it's more efficient.
MILLER: Okay Dick, good to talk to you this morning, thank you.
SMITH: Thank you.
MILLER: And we'll be seeking some response from the Air Traffic Controllers Association of that little lot.
DAVIE: Rather alarming claims there.
Media Release from CivilAir
Last edited by Shitsu-Tonka; 15th Apr 2004 at 09:35.
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Good grief, we all know that Dick just wants to fly his little helicopter around and not talk to anybody but with delusions of air trafficer's trying to put aircraft together it begs the question "Is this man fit to fly?"
As I explained to you, had the top of the Air Force, because he's flown in the United States, he's a commercial pilot of the ultimate experience.
From what I have heard he is doing a great job as Chief of Air Force, but even he would admit he hasnt been a line pilot for a very long time. Bit of a stretch throwing the word 'commercial' in there, considering he was a helo driver (I think - memory getting poor).
Would someone in the "know" care to quantify Angus Houston's, "commercial pilot of ultimate experience" aviation experience? How many hours a year does he fly and what types of civilian multi crew aircraft does he operate? Dick seems to be justifying a lot of his inane drivel on this man's credentials.
Angus probably won't get to read this 'cos he's probably on a 4 day trip and sliding down the ILS even as we read....
He's probably a really nice guy, but what are the facts?
Angus probably won't get to read this 'cos he's probably on a 4 day trip and sliding down the ILS even as we read....
He's probably a really nice guy, but what are the facts?
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It really is a sad state of affairs !
The problem is that the whole project has been mismanged from day one, the education (what there was of it) was not up to speed and the whole exercise has been driven by a Minister that only listens to Dick.
This sad state of play is not going to get any better.
Should there ever be an accident that is related to this mess, the Royal Commission that will follow (to shift the blame?) will not only bring down the Minister, but more than likely the Government as well, not to mention Dick.
This sorry exercise needs a very independant investigation. It would be interesting to see 60 minutes or 4 corners attack this, but I dont think they would game to put at risk the status of the biscuit icon...?
This is not about safety, it is more to do with politics and $$'s.
And this from someone who supports airspace reform (but just not this way).
geeez!
The problem is that the whole project has been mismanged from day one, the education (what there was of it) was not up to speed and the whole exercise has been driven by a Minister that only listens to Dick.
This sad state of play is not going to get any better.
Should there ever be an accident that is related to this mess, the Royal Commission that will follow (to shift the blame?) will not only bring down the Minister, but more than likely the Government as well, not to mention Dick.
This sorry exercise needs a very independant investigation. It would be interesting to see 60 minutes or 4 corners attack this, but I dont think they would game to put at risk the status of the biscuit icon...?
This is not about safety, it is more to do with politics and $$'s.
And this from someone who supports airspace reform (but just not this way).
geeez!
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Dick - as they say a leopard doesnt change its spots.
You could be just so wrong Dick and would never admit error.
God forbid if there was a collision with massive loss of life Dick and a Coronial Inquiry/ATSB report apportioned total blame to this new system you'd still stand fast and declare how safe it really was.
That's Dick's problem everyone - he talks at people, not to them.
He never stops to listen to those that attempt to advise him.
Coupled with the fact that he will never admit to being at fault is the mark of a dangerous personality.
You could be just so wrong Dick and would never admit error.
God forbid if there was a collision with massive loss of life Dick and a Coronial Inquiry/ATSB report apportioned total blame to this new system you'd still stand fast and declare how safe it really was.
That's Dick's problem everyone - he talks at people, not to them.
He never stops to listen to those that attempt to advise him.
Coupled with the fact that he will never admit to being at fault is the mark of a dangerous personality.
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I'm pretty sure Angus has never been a commercial pilot. Morover I would imagine his presence on such a board, and his main objective, would be to ensure that the proposed airspace changes would not adversely affect military flying within australia.
He is not paid to make sure Qantas has a good safety record.
dmf
He is not paid to make sure Qantas has a good safety record.
dmf
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A little birdy told me that mutual traffic was passed to both aircraft on 3 occasions before the occurence. The PIC of the GA aircraft had sighted the Virgin Jet. They passed within 800ft of each other.
So what is the big deal? and where did "400" feet come from as reported in the media release by Civilair. Don't they have access to the ESIR?
Balders better half
So what is the big deal? and where did "400" feet come from as reported in the media release by Civilair. Don't they have access to the ESIR?
Balders better half
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From The Australian 15.4.04
Air safety incidents rising: union
April 15, 2004
DATA showing 360 air safety incidents were recorded in February - the highest number in more than a year - was released by the air traffic controllers' union today.
The union released the figures following claims by Aviation Reform Group member Dick Smith that new airspace rules had improved air safety and that controllers had failed to prevent a recent safety incident.
Australian Air Traffic Control Association president Ted Lang said the Federal Government's electronically-submitted incident report showed safety incidents had risen since new airspace rules were introduced in November.
He said the February figure came on top of 330 incidents in January.
This was despite a decline in the area where reportable incidents could occur, Mr Lang said.
"With the introduction of NAS (National Airspace System), there was a fundamental change to the amount of airspace where notifiable incidents could occur," he told AAP.
"You've actually reduced the area where problems can occur, and we're actually seeing an increase in incidents."
Mr Lang's comments follow a number of recent safety incidents, including one off Brisbane last week, in which a Virgin Blue aircraft was allowed to descend to within 400 feet of another plane.
Mr Smith told Brisbane radio 4BC this morning that air traffic controllers conduct in relation to the incident was "basically criminal".
However, Mr Lang said controllers were operating within the rules, and the incident occurred because there was nothing to prevent it under the new system.
Under the new National Airspace System, light aircraft and jets could fly in the same airspace without communicating with air traffic control.
Comment was being sought from the Aviation Reform Group.
Oh and Baldricks Mum, the big deal is that there was an RA ie Collision Avoidance because the primary means of separation, see and avoid, failed. NAS relies on this and it is less safe than before and more exepnsive.
Air safety incidents rising: union
April 15, 2004
DATA showing 360 air safety incidents were recorded in February - the highest number in more than a year - was released by the air traffic controllers' union today.
The union released the figures following claims by Aviation Reform Group member Dick Smith that new airspace rules had improved air safety and that controllers had failed to prevent a recent safety incident.
Australian Air Traffic Control Association president Ted Lang said the Federal Government's electronically-submitted incident report showed safety incidents had risen since new airspace rules were introduced in November.
He said the February figure came on top of 330 incidents in January.
This was despite a decline in the area where reportable incidents could occur, Mr Lang said.
"With the introduction of NAS (National Airspace System), there was a fundamental change to the amount of airspace where notifiable incidents could occur," he told AAP.
"You've actually reduced the area where problems can occur, and we're actually seeing an increase in incidents."
Mr Lang's comments follow a number of recent safety incidents, including one off Brisbane last week, in which a Virgin Blue aircraft was allowed to descend to within 400 feet of another plane.
Mr Smith told Brisbane radio 4BC this morning that air traffic controllers conduct in relation to the incident was "basically criminal".
However, Mr Lang said controllers were operating within the rules, and the incident occurred because there was nothing to prevent it under the new system.
Under the new National Airspace System, light aircraft and jets could fly in the same airspace without communicating with air traffic control.
Comment was being sought from the Aviation Reform Group.
Oh and Baldricks Mum, the big deal is that there was an RA ie Collision Avoidance because the primary means of separation, see and avoid, failed. NAS relies on this and it is less safe than before and more exepnsive.
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Still doesn't tell me where the 400 feet came from.
The GA pilot "DID" see and avoid the virgin aircraft. What part of that is still confusing tobzalp????
Get it. He saw, and he avoided. How did that fail????
The GA pilot "DID" see and avoid the virgin aircraft. What part of that is still confusing tobzalp????
Get it. He saw, and he avoided. How did that fail????
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Angus Houstons Bio straight from the ADF website..
Air Marshal Houston joined the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) as a cadet pilot in 1970 and spent the early part of his career flying Iroquois helicopters in various parts of Australia, Papua New Guinea and Indonesia. After graduation from Flying Instructors Course in 1975, Air Marshal Houston completed several instructional tours on Macchi, BAC Strikemaster and Iroquois aircraft. A posting to the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF ) from 1976-1978 was followed, by two years at No 9 Squadron at RAAF Base Amberley. In late 1979 Air Marshal Houston was posted to Hill Air Force Base, Utah USA for exchange flying duties with a United States Air Force helicopter unit. In 1980 he was awarded the Air Force Cross (AFC) for an open sea rescue in gale force winds the previous year.
After a further posting to No 9 Squadron as the Executive Officer, and staff training at RAAF Staff College, Air Marshal Houston was posted to the Department of Air (Development Division) where he was involved in the Blackhawk helicopter Project. In 1987, Air Marshal Houston assumed command of No 9 Squadron to introduce the Blackhawk helicopter, to relocate the unit from Amberley to Townsville, and to transfer the capability to the Australian Army. In 1989 he enjoyed one year as a Squadron Commander with the 5th Aviation Regiment. Air Marshal Houston was admitted as a Member of the Order of Australia (AM) in 1990 for his work in the transfer of responsibility for Blackhawk operations.
Following graduation from Joint Services Staff College, Air Marshal Houston was posted to the Joint Operations staff at Headquarters Australian Defence Force and was involved in strategic planning during the Gulf crisis of 1990/91. On promotion to Group Captain in July 1992, he assumed the post of Director Air Force Policy and negotiated the establishment of the RSAF Flying School at RAAF Base Pearce. After completing a C130H conversion in 1993, Air Marshal Houston commanded No 86 Wing from 1994-95.
So we have him flying Helos for most of his career, with a C130 conversion as a Group Captain non unit pilot. (For non ADF types that would generally mean a local training area command and nothing out of the Richmond CTA without a QFI in command.)
The much vaunted "Flying in the US" would have been all below 10,000' in Iroquois. There is ZERO commercial experience in this Bio.
I have as much respect for the man as anyone else, but as previously stated, he would have been looking out for the military only on this committee, and is patently unqualified to comment on the effects of these airspace changes on large capacity RPT jets.
The largest jet he has ever flown is a Strikemaster!!!
Air Marshal Houston joined the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) as a cadet pilot in 1970 and spent the early part of his career flying Iroquois helicopters in various parts of Australia, Papua New Guinea and Indonesia. After graduation from Flying Instructors Course in 1975, Air Marshal Houston completed several instructional tours on Macchi, BAC Strikemaster and Iroquois aircraft. A posting to the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF ) from 1976-1978 was followed, by two years at No 9 Squadron at RAAF Base Amberley. In late 1979 Air Marshal Houston was posted to Hill Air Force Base, Utah USA for exchange flying duties with a United States Air Force helicopter unit. In 1980 he was awarded the Air Force Cross (AFC) for an open sea rescue in gale force winds the previous year.
After a further posting to No 9 Squadron as the Executive Officer, and staff training at RAAF Staff College, Air Marshal Houston was posted to the Department of Air (Development Division) where he was involved in the Blackhawk helicopter Project. In 1987, Air Marshal Houston assumed command of No 9 Squadron to introduce the Blackhawk helicopter, to relocate the unit from Amberley to Townsville, and to transfer the capability to the Australian Army. In 1989 he enjoyed one year as a Squadron Commander with the 5th Aviation Regiment. Air Marshal Houston was admitted as a Member of the Order of Australia (AM) in 1990 for his work in the transfer of responsibility for Blackhawk operations.
Following graduation from Joint Services Staff College, Air Marshal Houston was posted to the Joint Operations staff at Headquarters Australian Defence Force and was involved in strategic planning during the Gulf crisis of 1990/91. On promotion to Group Captain in July 1992, he assumed the post of Director Air Force Policy and negotiated the establishment of the RSAF Flying School at RAAF Base Pearce. After completing a C130H conversion in 1993, Air Marshal Houston commanded No 86 Wing from 1994-95.
So we have him flying Helos for most of his career, with a C130 conversion as a Group Captain non unit pilot. (For non ADF types that would generally mean a local training area command and nothing out of the Richmond CTA without a QFI in command.)
The much vaunted "Flying in the US" would have been all below 10,000' in Iroquois. There is ZERO commercial experience in this Bio.
I have as much respect for the man as anyone else, but as previously stated, he would have been looking out for the military only on this committee, and is patently unqualified to comment on the effects of these airspace changes on large capacity RPT jets.
The largest jet he has ever flown is a Strikemaster!!!
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Baldricks Mum we have already seen that the VFR pilot can not successfully see and avoid a tricky RNAV jet. Take the LT incident. RThe pilot thought he was goig to pass down one side of the aircrfat and actually ended up passing down the other. Who is your source for 800 feet?