Doors policy at Virgin Blue?

[Felix Lighter]

Whilst I understand that the financial heart of LCCs is in their ability to turn the aircraft around rapidly I was truely disappointed yesterday on a flight with DF from MEL-SYD to hear and see the Flight Attendants DISARM the doors while we were still taxying to the gate.

Is this policy?
Is this legal?

I could throw into the argument a dozen emergencies, notably cabin/brake fire after landing, that could require an evacuation.....

Does it really save you time disarming the doors so early?

[SM4 Pirate]

Felix,

I too have noticed this; but I'm pretty sure it's only done after the say so from the front; where no doubt they have assessed brake temps etc. before making the call.

It happened on a QF 763 on Monday morning, so I'm sure it's not a company policy per sae.

Bottle of Rum

[DirectAnywhere]

It's not about saving time - it's about safety. It prevents the person opening the door from the outside getting a faceful of door and slide should the "girt bar" that controls door power assist and slide inflation fail to release. QF do it as well although the timing is such that they wait until the aircraft is aligned with the lead in line to the bay.

It also prevents the possibility of someone - either passenger or crew - opening the door on the ground in error and blowing an expensive slide unnecessarily.

Cabin Crew are aware that if the doors are disarmed and an evacuation is subsequently ordered they are required to rearm the doors prior to opening them.

[Felix Lighter]

Fair enough, Im not DF bashing (or QF bashing for that matter)....... it was only a query based on fact that after 17yrs as a pilot this was the first time I have seen doors disarmed prior to the park brake being set by any airline.

We werent 'just about at the gate' either, we were at least 2 minutes away.

[Keg]

Felix, as others have alluded to, QF does it as we are aligned with the bay lead in line. It's less than 30 seconds to park brake set.

Are you saying that DJ did it whilst still on the taxi in? Did a PA preceede the disarming? You haven't provided much information to go on, location, etc. There are some peculiarities with certain gates that will lead to a slightly (about 30 seconds) earlier disarm and that could play a part.

[Buster Hyman]

For the record, I can't recall the "disarm" PA ever being done at the gate after coming to a halt. Mind you, I'm usually at the overwing exit & it's ready to blow...if I feel the need.

[Prop's ????]

The disarming of the doors is normally carried out approaching the gate or parking position.
Occasionally the PA seems to go on forever, as much as the front end don’t want to cut the PA off, sometimes pilots have no choice in the matter.

What I find hard to accept is most post flight taxi times (in Australia) are only about 2 – 3 minutes long. The above case must have been a very strange situation.

[Suffering Sucataash]

So Felix,

When was it... How far from the bay?
30 seconds or 3 minutes? It could be just a one off - new flight attendant - most of them are! (This is not to be miss interpreted as defending that operator - I do have a reputation to think of)

BTW in QF we normally do a "Cabin Crew Disarm Doors" PA as we line up with the bay.

Suffering S

[Airspeed Ambassador]

Felix Lighter

I am not sure what you observed on this flight, but for the record the normal flow of events at Virgin is as follows;

1. The F.O makes the "disarm doors" PA when aligned with the gate. After making the PA he/she confirms with the captain that PA was made.

2. Each crew member disarms their respective door and then crosschecks the opposite door.

3. The crew at the rear stations call the Cabin Supervisor to confirm the disarming of the rear doors.

Given the above SOP (no different to QF I'm sure) your observation does not seem correct on the face of it.

Since the FO's "disarm" PA sets the wheels in motion, if you did hear this PA and then witnessed the FA's disarming the doors, they have only followed normal procedures and the real question would be why was the PA made so early?

As Props stated the normal taxi time means the doors normally get disarmed the very moment the Cabin Supervisor finishes his/her farewell PA to the pax (ie when we are almost stopped at the gate) this being the first opportunity to get a word in on the PA!

Cheers


AA

[phat boy]

this is SUCH a non-event.

maybe I should say the same things as everyone else, as well.. just one more time.

by the way who is DF?

[FlexibleResponse]

Slightly off topic, but has anyone else noticed that Virgin Blue cover the observation window on the door with an orange banner when the door is in the armed position?

[Wizofoz]

Flex,

So do most 737 operators.

[FlexibleResponse]

Wiz,

Thanks, I didn’t realise that. I wonder if it is a Boeing recommended procedure for the 737 model or just an Oz thing?

In the airline in which I operate (no 737 models), the observation window is used as part of the Door Emergency Opening and Slide Deployment Procedure. I.e., In an Emergency situation requiring Evacuation, check area outside for obstructions and safety before opening door. If it is unsafe, redirect pax to an alternative exit.

[737opsguy]

Flex,

I think that you may find it is the same case at DJ. When an evac is required, the orange tape is removed so that the external environment can be assessed to determine if it is safe to open the door.

When the doors armed, the tape is put up so someone on the outside can see the door is armed. Hence when the aircraft arrives at the gate, the window is checked prior to opening the door to ensure that the tape has been removed indicating that the door has in fact been disarmed. Not fool proof but better than nothing.

[Felix Lighter]

Thanks for the responses.

I fly the Airbus and our philosophy is entirely different - we do not disarm the doors until the aircraft is at the gate and the park brake is on. Every Airbus operator that i have flown with adheres this philosophy.......butI am by no means the Airbus global guru!!

I'd be interested in knowing if the SOP is an Oz based one or 737/Boeing.

I have just flown with VirginBlue again today and the door operation was exactly as per the policies stated above.

It appears that what i witnessed on my last trip was ENTIRELY different......we were indeed 2-3mins from the gate AND the PA was before the Flight Attendants gave their "thanks for flying Virgin" address. It was significantly 'different' for me to sit up and take notice.....as such i wondered if it was SOP. Obviously not.

Just a one off, I guess.

By-the-by i am not (as requested) going to provide anymore details eg gate, flight number, date etc............ This was a genuine enquiry and not a witch hunt.

Thanks for the contructive replies

[Wizofoz]

Flex Light,

I've flown 737s on three continents, and the arm/dissarm philosophies have been basically the same (PA approaching the gate) in all three, including the orange ribbon thingy, so I assume it is more or less Boeing SOP.

[Capt Claret]

Flex

In the company I work for, the F/O makes the appropriate PA when within 150m of the parking bay. As others have stated, this allows the doors to be disarmed before some helpful soul, or possibly even an F/A distracted by the stampeed of pax wanting to deplane, opens an armed door!

[Keg]

Felix, the details of the flight weren't to hunt down the crew, it was to provide us some background that may have provided you with an answer as to why an early disarm call.

[BCF Breath]

Possibly an Aust thing, maybe as a result of a near miss.
The F/A's in Air NZ do it all themselves, with quite clear guidelines re who opens the door. They also have the orange tape.