Skippers Aviation & QF Cadet scheme
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Parrhresiastes
wholey/holey/holy* moley Batman .. one/1 of my friends of some/sum years is a fantastic pilot but he can't/carnt/caanth spell for nuts.
He's flogging around the bright blue in a jet.
Besides, isn't that why ICAO codes were invented? It makes for a nice neet/nete/neat* playing field around the world, and is not dependant upon your/you're* english skills!
* delete word of your own chosing
wholey/holey/holy* moley Batman .. one/1 of my friends of some/sum years is a fantastic pilot but he can't/carnt/caanth spell for nuts.
He's flogging around the bright blue in a jet.
Besides, isn't that why ICAO codes were invented? It makes for a nice neet/nete/neat* playing field around the world, and is not dependant upon your/you're* english skills!
* delete word of your own chosing
Last edited by The Voice; 26th Mar 2004 at 05:06.
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The Voice & sydneyman
I agree entirely with your sentiments.
It's just when I was a boy you could get almost any job you liked, with pretty much any sort of quals, if you were persistent, there were more jobs than people.
Nowadays and especially in the gool 'ol United States of Amazement, you need a degree just to get on the list.
We are there right now in Australia.
Right or wrong one of the filters we employers use when trying to whittle the 1,000 applications for a job down to maybe ten or twenty to render the process manageable, is to start the filtering process.
Surviving that process is pretty tough and yes we almost certainly miss the odd good 'un from time to time, but they will always get there in the end.
As for Skippers, Bendy has some sage advice.
I agree entirely with your sentiments.
It's just when I was a boy you could get almost any job you liked, with pretty much any sort of quals, if you were persistent, there were more jobs than people.
Nowadays and especially in the gool 'ol United States of Amazement, you need a degree just to get on the list.
We are there right now in Australia.
Right or wrong one of the filters we employers use when trying to whittle the 1,000 applications for a job down to maybe ten or twenty to render the process manageable, is to start the filtering process.
Surviving that process is pretty tough and yes we almost certainly miss the odd good 'un from time to time, but they will always get there in the end.
As for Skippers, Bendy has some sage advice.
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So what your are saying Parrhresiastes is that rather than looking at flying hours and experience to sort out the wannabe's for the job, you look at if they have correct gramar and a degree first??.....did i spell gramar correctly??.....perhaps I should go to uni and get a degree in english to help me with my career prospects in these green pastures of aviation......
Seasonally Adjusted
Hayward, great post. Might now reconsider my next move.
In my former job, MERIT stood for "Mates Elevated Regardless of Intelligence or Training".
In my former job, MERIT stood for "Mates Elevated Regardless of Intelligence or Training".
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Maybe i should go back to MILFing and being a Porn Star....at least you get paid to be TRUCKED.....and to those that care that is a deliberate typo of the word .. _ucked 
To elaborate on one of my previous posts of this subject...i can handle being told you are no good or not right for the job....but to be lied to, ie "go get some cabin class twin time as 1000multi doesnt cut it unless its a cabin".....just peeves me.
I may not have a degree....i may not have perfect grammar,...but i do know when im being lied too which also makes the one lying look like a total idiot.
Myself as an ex check and training pilot, thank god never had to sign off the endorsement on a 200hr pilot on a medium size turbo prob aircraft. Experience does count and i personally dont think a low time pilot should be flying in any sort of command position apart from s/o on board an aircraft with fair paying pax or not.
Hypothetically, if the Check and training Captain became incapacitated during his/her/transsexual/blonde/brunette (just being politically correct), check to line training, of which would have pax on board, and an engine fire occured, bad weather enroute and to the minimu for your hopeful approach, and your mother/father/brother/sister/dog/goat or sheep was on board....would u feel comfortable and cofident that this low time pilot was the right person for the job, ie getting the aircraft on the deck safely? I accept the fact that even a high time, high experienced but newly endorsed on type pilot would be hard pressed under this hypothetical situation,...but the basic raw experience and instinct would no doubt help out and hopefully bring a happy end to the story.
No i dont think its correct that such a low time pilot has been put anywhere near the control of such and aircraft. I personally dont fly certain airlines because they practise this, but thats my choice and i can make that choice as im educated with the knowledge of their practise.
Free speech is a wonderful thing
PS....does anyone know where near freo u can get beer at 1200midnight?
PPS just out of interest...anyone know where the atsb report on the c441 mishap at lake johnston could be found?
To elaborate on one of my previous posts of this subject...i can handle being told you are no good or not right for the job....but to be lied to, ie "go get some cabin class twin time as 1000multi doesnt cut it unless its a cabin".....just peeves me.
I may not have a degree....i may not have perfect grammar,...but i do know when im being lied too which also makes the one lying look like a total idiot.
Myself as an ex check and training pilot, thank god never had to sign off the endorsement on a 200hr pilot on a medium size turbo prob aircraft. Experience does count and i personally dont think a low time pilot should be flying in any sort of command position apart from s/o on board an aircraft with fair paying pax or not.
Hypothetically, if the Check and training Captain became incapacitated during his/her/transsexual/blonde/brunette (just being politically correct), check to line training, of which would have pax on board, and an engine fire occured, bad weather enroute and to the minimu for your hopeful approach, and your mother/father/brother/sister/dog/goat or sheep was on board....would u feel comfortable and cofident that this low time pilot was the right person for the job, ie getting the aircraft on the deck safely? I accept the fact that even a high time, high experienced but newly endorsed on type pilot would be hard pressed under this hypothetical situation,...but the basic raw experience and instinct would no doubt help out and hopefully bring a happy end to the story.
No i dont think its correct that such a low time pilot has been put anywhere near the control of such and aircraft. I personally dont fly certain airlines because they practise this, but thats my choice and i can make that choice as im educated with the knowledge of their practise.
Free speech is a wonderful thing
PS....does anyone know where near freo u can get beer at 1200midnight?
PPS just out of interest...anyone know where the atsb report on the c441 mishap at lake johnston could be found?
Last edited by MILFhunter; 25th Mar 2004 at 13:53.
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This pilot has been placed in the position because she has the right experience / intelligence / attitude etc. The management of Skipper's ( Ie chief pilot ) is NOT and idiot and knows very well why this young lady was placed in the airline. I suggest to MILFhunter and alike that these things happen in life and their best best is to let it go before they die at an early age.
If you believe this is 'unfair' then that's your perogative. Remember, she was taken on as a cadet because the QF testing and interview process identified her as having Captaincy potential. Some out there may think that is irrelevant when compared to experience- personally I don't. I'm sure that after her 2 years with Skippers she will be a very fine pilot indeed.
This pilot is certainly NOT an idiot (and I imagine she would perform quite well during an emergency thanks MILFhunter).
Best of luck to her and all other pilots with the right attitude as the next few years should see many pilots recruited regardless of their background.
By the way MILFhunter- do you think your user name reflects on your maturity and attitude? Do you have the right attitude for this industry?
If you believe this is 'unfair' then that's your perogative. Remember, she was taken on as a cadet because the QF testing and interview process identified her as having Captaincy potential. Some out there may think that is irrelevant when compared to experience- personally I don't. I'm sure that after her 2 years with Skippers she will be a very fine pilot indeed.
This pilot is certainly NOT an idiot (and I imagine she would perform quite well during an emergency thanks MILFhunter).
Best of luck to her and all other pilots with the right attitude as the next few years should see many pilots recruited regardless of their background.
By the way MILFhunter- do you think your user name reflects on your maturity and attitude? Do you have the right attitude for this industry?
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my name is purely a reflection of my sense of humour
we are all entitled to our opinions
QF do get it wrong you know, cadets and pilots have been cut because they have got it wrong.
Hey at the end of the day im just jealous to an extent, but my other beliefs still stand.
You know as well as i know that the chief pilot doesnt always have the last say on these decisions, unless you know specifically otherwise??.....would u like examples??
Im sure she is a very fine pilot now, and in 2 years even more so.
Would you like to answer my pet No1 peeve though as too why companies give potential candidates reasons for not employing them such as" you dont have any cabin class twin charter time", yet turn arround and employ very low time pilots. I understand at the end of the day its their company and they can do as they please, but dont be so insulting as to give poor excuses as such.
Please remember its not personal against the lady with the very lucky break, its just trying to get some fair and reasonable answers as to my previous posted qu's.
Omega man i sugest you check your grammar before you post!!....not saying that mine is anywhere near perfect
we are all entitled to our opinions
QF do get it wrong you know, cadets and pilots have been cut because they have got it wrong.
Hey at the end of the day im just jealous to an extent, but my other beliefs still stand.
You know as well as i know that the chief pilot doesnt always have the last say on these decisions, unless you know specifically otherwise??.....would u like examples??
Im sure she is a very fine pilot now, and in 2 years even more so.
Would you like to answer my pet No1 peeve though as too why companies give potential candidates reasons for not employing them such as" you dont have any cabin class twin charter time", yet turn arround and employ very low time pilots. I understand at the end of the day its their company and they can do as they please, but dont be so insulting as to give poor excuses as such.
Please remember its not personal against the lady with the very lucky break, its just trying to get some fair and reasonable answers as to my previous posted qu's.
Omega man i sugest you check your grammar before you post!!....not saying that mine is anywhere near perfect
Last edited by MILFhunter; 29th Mar 2004 at 05:15.
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MILFhunter:
Probably because its hard for them to say "we don't like you(generic you - not you personally), you are a ********, you're previous boss is delighted you left and we have someone else we'd rather employ".
Would you like to answer my pet No1 peeve though as too why companies give potential candidates reasons for not employing them such as" you dont have any cabin class twin charter time"
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I was wondering this:
Is the 'problem' such because the pilot is a QF cadet and female?
Skippers like any other organisation employs capable pilots.
Sometimes the reason given for non employment may even be truly reflective of why someone is passed over in favour of another.
Perhaps it is time to stop the bleating, stick your head down and a$$ up and get on with getting the experience apparently needed to make yourself viable next time ..
.. particularly in aviation, if at first you don't suceed, try try, try again .. surely you'd have learnt that one by now ...
Is the 'problem' such because the pilot is a QF cadet and female?
Skippers like any other organisation employs capable pilots.
Sometimes the reason given for non employment may even be truly reflective of why someone is passed over in favour of another.
Perhaps it is time to stop the bleating, stick your head down and a$$ up and get on with getting the experience apparently needed to make yourself viable next time ..
.. particularly in aviation, if at first you don't suceed, try try, try again .. surely you'd have learnt that one by now ...
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Well Mr Voice, if you read just two posts up you will discover that its not becuase she is a she and a qf cadet, but primarily because a bare com pilot with a cir has been placed in an aircraft of such, yet the employer will turn arround to quite capable, well experienced pilots and turn them down with the excuse that they dont have enough suitable experience, go figure. At least QF are up front and will tell you when you dont meet their phsyc profile.
I personally have never applied and never will as i do like my disco boogey nights in company board rooms ....but i do well and truly meet their mins.......however a few friends have applied and some have been turned away at the gate due to previous mentioned reasons. It simply baffles me as too why companies cant be upfront and honest and then maybe people can go in the correct direction to change as a person or ones experience so as to come back and get past that pearly gate to fly the blue tail. 
I personally have never applied and never will as i do like my disco boogey nights in company board rooms
....but i do well and truly meet their mins.......however a few friends have applied and some have been turned away at the gate due to previous mentioned reasons. It simply baffles me as too why companies cant be upfront and honest and then maybe people can go in the correct direction to change as a person or ones experience so as to come back and get past that pearly gate to fly the blue tail.
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MILFhunter
I did read and have just re-read the post '2 up' ..
so,
AND your apparent joy of
don't contradict each other?
even just a little bit?
and, to you, that'd be Mrs Voice ...
I did read and have just re-read the post '2 up' ..
so,
Hey at the end of the day im just jealous to an extent
disco boogey nights in company board rooms
even just a little bit?
and, to you, that'd be Mrs Voice ...
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If Skippers has previously discriminated on the basis of qualifications and experience (quite legal) their recent decision to employ a pilot of so little experience can only be good for wannabees.
Quite simply, how can they NOW turn you away based on qualifications and experience? If they are discriminating then someone should challenge them............
After all, if they cannot provide employment criteria which can under examination prove to be fair and equitable, then they are in breach of the LAW.
Quite simply, how can they NOW turn you away based on qualifications and experience? If they are discriminating then someone should challenge them............
After all, if they cannot provide employment criteria which can under examination prove to be fair and equitable, then they are in breach of the LAW.
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Sorry Madam Voice, its not contradiction its sarcasm, sorry to confuse you 
Interesting point Longjohn (LOVE the name!!), would be very interesting to see them challenged on that basis.
Interesting point Longjohn (LOVE the name!!), would be very interesting to see them challenged on that basis.
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Longjohn,
The wanabees will need to be QF cadets to get a start like this as Qantas pays for the endorsemant etc as far as I know; I believe that Pearl now has 2 QF cadets that brought with them $10K each for the training/experience that they will receive, so they are given a go before others with the same or better experience. It's a very uneven playing field really; but they have a company/system that believes in their potential and who is willing to back/pay for their early experience.
These cadets still have to get a good report from the C&T system at Pearl to progess into QF( I assume that it will be the same with Skippers), so they don't get an entirely free run but they are at an advantage over other low time wanabees.
That said you can't blame the cadets for being cadets and starting their careers like like this, if the oportunity is there, take it. You can't blame a kid for using the system.
The wanabees will need to be QF cadets to get a start like this as Qantas pays for the endorsemant etc as far as I know; I believe that Pearl now has 2 QF cadets that brought with them $10K each for the training/experience that they will receive, so they are given a go before others with the same or better experience. It's a very uneven playing field really; but they have a company/system that believes in their potential and who is willing to back/pay for their early experience.
These cadets still have to get a good report from the C&T system at Pearl to progess into QF( I assume that it will be the same with Skippers), so they don't get an entirely free run but they are at an advantage over other low time wanabees.
That said you can't blame the cadets for being cadets and starting their careers like like this, if the oportunity is there, take it. You can't blame a kid for using the system.
Last edited by CaptCaveman; 29th Mar 2004 at 11:54.
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Wombat, Hayward,
You forgot about no more foam cups for staff use! Come to think of it, no more of anything for staff that might boost moral in anyway.
Isn't this what the whole post is really about, low moral, flogging yourself and putting in the hard yards so that ultimately the big cheese can shaft you by employing yet another one of the family members!
You forgot about no more foam cups for staff use! Come to think of it, no more of anything for staff that might boost moral in anyway.
Isn't this what the whole post is really about, low moral, flogging yourself and putting in the hard yards so that ultimately the big cheese can shaft you by employing yet another one of the family members!