Australian Airlines exodus of pilots to Dragonair
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Always an interesting debate this one, but as said, it's horses for courses! The money on offer o/s is extremely tempting, but compared with lifestyle choices in Oz, it's obviously a personal decision.
The Oz aviation scene would be most interesting if CX, EK, SQ, etc.. all set up aussie bases, then we may see the Oz airlines treating their drivers a bit better!! A 777 slot in EK would be irresistable!
Personally, nothing beats the aussie beaches, mates and weather, although the women could be improved on!!!
The Oz aviation scene would be most interesting if CX, EK, SQ, etc.. all set up aussie bases, then we may see the Oz airlines treating their drivers a bit better!! A 777 slot in EK would be irresistable!
Personally, nothing beats the aussie beaches, mates and weather, although the women could be improved on!!!
I cant believe this has gone on for 3 pages.
Everyone does things for their own reasons, and there are hundreds of them. Its not always lifestyle, money or career.
One of the reasons I hear that the Aus basings for Cathay (FO's anyway) arent popular is that they need to go back to HK for a command. All of the ones I know would love to be back but wont for that reason.
Everyone does things for their own reasons, and there are hundreds of them. Its not always lifestyle, money or career.
One of the reasons I hear that the Aus basings for Cathay (FO's anyway) arent popular is that they need to go back to HK for a command. All of the ones I know would love to be back but wont for that reason.
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TIMMEEE you don't seem to get it old mate. Lifestyle is a relative term, and just 'cause you like to surf in the morning and go to your local coffee shop doesn't mean everyone does.
I have not traded any lifestyle for money. Having money gives me the lifestyle I want. There is no trade off, do you get it? I left Oz by choice, not 'cause this was the only job on offer.
The saying is
'the world is your oyster' , not 'Australia is your oyster' .
I have not traded any lifestyle for money. Having money gives me the lifestyle I want. There is no trade off, do you get it? I left Oz by choice, not 'cause this was the only job on offer.
The saying is
'the world is your oyster' , not 'Australia is your oyster' .
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Short post ftrplt, but there's a lot in the one line you posted:
"Everyone does things for their own reasons, and there are hundreds of them. Its not always lifestyle, money or career."
In a nutshell, it seems that this topic has broadly determined why pilots prefer to work/live in Oz or o/s.
Oz pro's
LIFESTYLE
Career airline
Oz cons
Low salary
Slow career advancement
Possibility of drastically altered employment conditions
The beer/beaches/women/shopping is better in Bali..Waikiki..Redondo...
Overseas pro's
BIG salary+benefits (= earlier/wealthier retirement)
Possibility of accelerated (above Oz employed airline pilots) promotions > BIGGER salaries....newer/newest type ratings
Overseas cons
Missing out on the everyday, great Aussie lifestyle
No guaranteed employment - after all, you're only there because there weren't enough "locals" at the time!
The beer/beaches/women/ shops just aren't as good as you find in Oz.
"Everyone does things for their own reasons, and there are hundreds of them. Its not always lifestyle, money or career."
In a nutshell, it seems that this topic has broadly determined why pilots prefer to work/live in Oz or o/s.
Oz pro's
LIFESTYLE
Career airline
Oz cons
Low salary
Slow career advancement
Possibility of drastically altered employment conditions
The beer/beaches/women/shopping is better in Bali..Waikiki..Redondo...
Overseas pro's
BIG salary+benefits (= earlier/wealthier retirement)
Possibility of accelerated (above Oz employed airline pilots) promotions > BIGGER salaries....newer/newest type ratings
Overseas cons
Missing out on the everyday, great Aussie lifestyle
No guaranteed employment - after all, you're only there because there weren't enough "locals" at the time!
The beer/beaches/women/ shops just aren't as good as you find in Oz.
ftrplt
You only have to come back to Hong Kong for twelve months. If you get your command on the right aircraft, i.e. A330 then you can reapply for a base after that time. The real reason bases aren’t very popular with FO’s is because the pay is S**T. It is less than the equivalent QF pay after tax thanks to the change in the tax ruling by the ATO. The tax department thought they were smart but all it resulted in was that most on the bases gave them up and returned to Hong Kong. They now get no income tax or GST. Very smart of the ATO if you ask me. No wonder there is a senate enquiry going at the moment trying to understand why so many bright Australian are leaving Australia for jobs overseas. The answer is very simple. The pay in Aus is crap and the taxes are the second highest in the world. Fix those and some of us may return. Don’t and continue watching the intellectual draining of this once great country to the rest of the world. 
One of the reasons I hear that the Aus basings for Cathay (FO's anyway) arent popular is that they need to go back to HK for a command. All of the ones I know would love to be back but wont for that reason.
My family and I have been in HK now for a couple of years and to be quite honest wouldn't even consider a return to Aus at the moment.
Lifestyle is all about what makes you content with your "individual needs" and we as a family are very happy with what HK has to offer.
I can give my kid's a good education plus the experience of living o.s while still having Aus only a 9 hour flight away for when they want to catch up with family.
All I would say is until I came here I was an Australian Lifestyle person as well but since comming here, not one person that I have met has left yet by choice, and that's not just pilots but other expats as well.
With commands at KA less than 2 years, it's not a bad career choice, when you see whets happening with the "lifestyle Jobs" in Aus.
BTW, had a great steak on the BBQ tonight and followed up with a couple of icy cold VB stubbies as well.
Cheers.
Lifestyle is all about what makes you content with your "individual needs" and we as a family are very happy with what HK has to offer.
I can give my kid's a good education plus the experience of living o.s while still having Aus only a 9 hour flight away for when they want to catch up with family.
All I would say is until I came here I was an Australian Lifestyle person as well but since comming here, not one person that I have met has left yet by choice, and that's not just pilots but other expats as well.
With commands at KA less than 2 years, it's not a bad career choice, when you see whets happening with the "lifestyle Jobs" in Aus.
BTW, had a great steak on the BBQ tonight and followed up with a couple of icy cold VB stubbies as well.
Cheers.
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Don’t and continue watching the intellectual draining of this once great country
Sorry, couldn't help it. I thought you meant pilots but realise you surely meant the wider professional community. Even though I, myself, am a pilot, the first take on that statement gave rise to unqualified mirth!
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There is no trade off, do you get it? I left Oz by choice, not 'cause this was the only job on offer.
I didnt make any reference to you personally but to others I do know!
I dont know you or your circumstances but was simply replying to some that seem to think the lifestyle and freedoms we enjoy in Australia are a joke which is far from the truth.
My lifestyle works for me and is something I value with great respect and appreciation.I'm not going to get into comparing lifestyles because in the end we may as well drop our dacks and compare sizes!!
Yes - I do wake up in the mornings and thank God for good weather and a stable country that affords me numerous opportunities both inside and out of work.
Similarly others out there are the same.
Sure - some in Oz and in the aviation industry aren't that well off,
I'll grant you that.
But on the whole for others to call what Qantas pay "a joke" and refer to the VB guys as working for "no coin" is way off base.
Seeing mates getting sent on extended leave and offered reduced conditions in HK when SARS hit gave me no joy, as did seeing other mates have their contracts cancelled overseas for either reasons political or economic.
As JFK said people, we all inhabit the same earth and we all breath the same air.
Like it or not we are all in the same industry and enjoy the rights and privileges they offer - lifestyle being one of them one way or the other as we choose fit by being based where we are.
Anyone else want to take a swing at me or is a beer the order of the day??
TIMMEEEE
Yes but in December when it was obvious SARS was behind us, we got the unpaid leave paid back plus two weeks bonus. So in essence we got paid for an extra three weeks leave last year and then got a two week bonus. If SARS was centered on Australia, what do you think QF or DJ would have done. Remember we had our loads drop from 40000 + per day to about 5000 and we parked 1/3 of our fleet.
Seeing mates getting sent on extended leave and offered reduced conditions in HK when SARS hit gave me no joy
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SARS and the like give me the heebee jeebees.
We got out of it lightly last time round.Reackon next time we maightnt be so lucky.All we needed was a mutation of the virus and it would have been a different story.
Still amazing how things turn around and how airlines have modified their forward planning.
We got out of it lightly last time round.Reackon next time we maightnt be so lucky.All we needed was a mutation of the virus and it would have been a different story.
Still amazing how things turn around and how airlines have modified their forward planning.
Beer Can Dreaming
Unfortunately you too have fallen for the media hype this thing generated. The reality of the situation was that it wasn’t very infectious at all and had a mortality rate less than normal Pneumonia. Every year in Hong Kong 30000 people die from Pneumonia while SARS only killed 299. If we all constantly worried about what diseases could kill us we wouldn’t leave our house, mind you the number of things that could kill you in your own house is staggering.
Unfortunately you too have fallen for the media hype this thing generated. The reality of the situation was that it wasn’t very infectious at all and had a mortality rate less than normal Pneumonia. Every year in Hong Kong 30000 people die from Pneumonia while SARS only killed 299. If we all constantly worried about what diseases could kill us we wouldn’t leave our house, mind you the number of things that could kill you in your own house is staggering.
fire wall
Yeh, that was meant to be 3000, sorry. I have heard the same said about the cocktail of drugs and that they could have had a lot to do with the death rate here compared to other countries including China. If this is the case the mortality rate would have been even lower. Maybe just above the common flue.
Yeh, that was meant to be 3000, sorry. I have heard the same said about the cocktail of drugs and that they could have had a lot to do with the death rate here compared to other countries including China. If this is the case the mortality rate would have been even lower. Maybe just above the common flue.
GT-R,
Just curious, as an interested party to this topic what difference would initials of those concerned have made ?
Curious .......
Just curious, as an interested party to this topic what difference would initials of those concerned have made ?
Curious .......
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Hey TIMEEE, glad to hear you are enjoying life mate. Yes Aus can offer a great life style, but so can many other places. There are great beaches in other parts of the world together with great people, great wine and all the other things that make our lives so pleasant. Aus, nice place that it is, is not the only place to offer these pleasures!
As for your suggestion that I am rubbishing Aus, I fail to see how you came to that conclusion.
Finally let me say this, being an Australian, I will always defend my right to bl##dywell say whatever I want about my own country, good or bad. The day we all stop doing that is the day we will be in trouble!
Anyway hope you enjoyed the bottle of red
RT
As for your suggestion that I am rubbishing Aus, I fail to see how you came to that conclusion.
Finally let me say this, being an Australian, I will always defend my right to bl##dywell say whatever I want about my own country, good or bad. The day we all stop doing that is the day we will be in trouble!
Anyway hope you enjoyed the bottle of red
RT
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Get yourself based somewhere where you pay NO tax or minimal tax - say 15% or less.
A radius of no more than 12 hours by air to Oz.
Save every dollar, dinar and pound you can and invest them in the money market or futures.
Then retire at 55 years of age and come back to Oz and fly your last 5 years with Virgin or JetStar.
Don't worry about the tax in your last 5 years, the way things are headed, you won't be earning enough to get you into the tax paying threshold.
A radius of no more than 12 hours by air to Oz.
Save every dollar, dinar and pound you can and invest them in the money market or futures.
Then retire at 55 years of age and come back to Oz and fly your last 5 years with Virgin or JetStar.
Don't worry about the tax in your last 5 years, the way things are headed, you won't be earning enough to get you into the tax paying threshold.
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Some advice...
Well, as an aspiring 17 year old in rural Victoria, I'd just like to add that I'm enjoying my flight training at the moment. Yes, one day I hope to make it to the big league - but right now, I think I'll settle for my current lifestyle... school, mates, flying and socialising.
Beats the hell out of arguing about who lives in the better house or the better economy.
What I'm trying to say is - sure I might only be young - but I know if you're happy with where you are, why bother arguing about it?
Go spend time enjoying your lifestyle instead of wasting it.
Soulman.
Beats the hell out of arguing about who lives in the better house or the better economy.
What I'm trying to say is - sure I might only be young - but I know if you're happy with where you are, why bother arguing about it?
Go spend time enjoying your lifestyle instead of wasting it.
Soulman.
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I know if you're happy with where you are, why bother arguing about it?
Back to the topic at hand.
Qantas pilots, despite their groanings, have historically been ready to undercut themselves. Remember the S/O's a few years ago accepting B scale domestic conditions, domestic 767 drivers not doing that much better than VB drivers, Australian Airlines ( most guys I knew spent their GA lives trying to escape Cairns ) and now, it would seem, QF pilots are bending over collectively to accept Jetstar "opportunities".
Up north, Dragonair ordered 7 A330's last week with industry rumours suggesting half a dozen 747's aswell-passenger or freight? Rumoured Sydney bases and quick commands.
Despite the discomfort it may cause their former colleagues, the Qantas pilots joining Dragonair may be thinking outside the square.
Whiskery
I agree but would 1- Prefer property
2- Never work for VB or Jetstar.
'Woods a little tired last night? Made Richardson look like half a footballer.
Soulman
You will fly jet airliners one day. Most do. But conditions have halved in 10 years and not likely to improve.
Not important to you now, but the first air hostess you ask out may make more money than you!
Oicur
If you aren't observing globalisation I can't help you. That the quickest way to long haul command and an Australian base, may be through a foreign airline, as opposed QF, one inkling.
No, QF are not employing cheap foreign pilots to cut costs. Foreign airlines are employing cheap Australian pilots to compete with QF, basing these guys in Australia-SQ,CX and more to follow.
Qantas pilots, despite their groanings, have historically been ready to undercut themselves. Remember the S/O's a few years ago accepting B scale domestic conditions, domestic 767 drivers not doing that much better than VB drivers, Australian Airlines ( most guys I knew spent their GA lives trying to escape Cairns ) and now, it would seem, QF pilots are bending over collectively to accept Jetstar "opportunities".
Up north, Dragonair ordered 7 A330's last week with industry rumours suggesting half a dozen 747's aswell-passenger or freight? Rumoured Sydney bases and quick commands.
Despite the discomfort it may cause their former colleagues, the Qantas pilots joining Dragonair may be thinking outside the square.
Whiskery
I agree but would 1- Prefer property
2- Never work for VB or Jetstar.
'Woods a little tired last night? Made Richardson look like half a footballer.
Soulman
You will fly jet airliners one day. Most do. But conditions have halved in 10 years and not likely to improve.
Not important to you now, but the first air hostess you ask out may make more money than you!
Oicur
If you aren't observing globalisation I can't help you. That the quickest way to long haul command and an Australian base, may be through a foreign airline, as opposed QF, one inkling.
No, QF are not employing cheap foreign pilots to cut costs. Foreign airlines are employing cheap Australian pilots to compete with QF, basing these guys in Australia-SQ,CX and more to follow.
