How Qantas Pilots Acted on Impulse (Alan Kohler)
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How Qantas Pilots Acted on Impulse (Alan Kohler)
Thurs "Melbourne Age"
How Qantas pilots acted on impulse
Alan Kohler
February 26, 2004
The breakthrough that got Jetstar flying came three months ago. The former Impulse pilots, now flying Qantas 717s, agreed to fly A320s for the same salary.
The immense significance of this may be lost on those whose contact with aviation is confined to trying to figure out where to stick the headset lead on different planes. But believe me, it is the start of a revolution.
Under the deal with the 143 pilots, the standard rate for a Jetstar A320 captain is $125,000 a year. The standard rate for a Qantas captain flying a Boeing 738 (the equivalent plane) is between $200,000 and $240,000. That is, Jetstar pilots will earn a little more than half that of Qantas pilots.
What is more, the Jetstar pilots volunteered for it. The 143 pilots unanimously agreed three months ago to fly A320s for the same pay as 717s. The pilots knew that the old Impulse fleet they had flown into Qantas was being phased out and the pilots would soon be out of a job.
It means that as the 717s (now to be labelled Jetstar) are replaced by larger more efficient A320s, the cost of running the new discount airline will fall from 8.25¢ per passenger kilometre to 7.8¢ - about 11 per cent below Virgin Blue's disclosed cost base.
Qantas chief Geoff Dixon says he did not have Jetstar in mind when Qantas bought Impulse and kept it as a separate subsidiary employing its pilots on the same rates. He did it "for a rainy day". With Virgin Blue at 31.5 per cent market share and rising - it is raining.
The deal with the Impulse/Jetstar pilots also has enormous implications for Qantas and, without wishing to get too carried away, for industrial relations generally.
Qantas pilots have now asked Dixon that they be able to transfer to Jetstar and are prepared to accept the lower rates when they fly its planes. Negotiations are continuing. But the Qantas pilots want seven out of every 20 commands (captain's positions) at Jetstar to go to Qantas pilots (they want to try to maintain their overall pace of advancement to command).
Dixon says he will agree to that only as long as Jetstar pilots can advance to Qantas commands (on Qantas pay rates, that is). So far the Qantas pilots are baulking at that.
In general, it is a sort of bloodless Pilot's Strike Mark 2, where the lower-paid Impulse pilots have brought a low-wage infection into the Qantas host.
Over time, Jetstar will take market share from Qantas. In fact most, if not all, of its passengers will come from Qantas. After all, even Dixon acknowledges that Virgin Blue's market share is likely to remain the same (between 30 and 35 per cent).
This means Qantas's capacity will be reduced and some routes will be dropped as Jetstar brings in more A320s. Qantas pilots will then have this choice: switch to the discount airline on half the pay or lose their jobs as Alan Joyce at Jetstar hires pilots from somewhere else. The pilot pay cut is the first breakthrough that helped Dixon get Jetstar off the ground. The second is that Joyce will be able to match European discount productivity.
He believes he can get up to 1000 hours a year flying time from the pilots, as opposed to Virgin Blue's 700 hours a year (and Qantas's much less).
That will be achieved largely through faster turnarounds - 25 minutes on average, compared with 30 minutes for Virgin Blue and 35 minutes for Qantas.
European discount carrier Ryanair has been helping Joyce design the turnaround processes, but the main thing is that there will be no fixed seat allocation - everyone will be able to sit where they like, which will save time on the ground. Also, flights will be closed 30 minutes before take-off.
In time, it is possible that Jetstar will grow to a third of the market, with the Qantas full-service airline shrinking to a third. If that happened, Qantas group market share would remain the same (around 65 per cent), revenue would fall because of Jetstar's lower fares, but profit would rise.
That is because Qantas will make more profit margin on every discount passenger who transfers from Qantas to Jetstar, thanks to its lower costs, in turn due to the pilots, plus other things like using Avalon as a hub, charging for food and not having seat allocation.
The advent of Jetstar will be a fascinating episode in aviation, but above all it is a major industrial relations event.
[email protected]
============================================
How Qantas pilots acted on impulse
Alan Kohler
February 26, 2004
The breakthrough that got Jetstar flying came three months ago. The former Impulse pilots, now flying Qantas 717s, agreed to fly A320s for the same salary.
The immense significance of this may be lost on those whose contact with aviation is confined to trying to figure out where to stick the headset lead on different planes. But believe me, it is the start of a revolution.
Under the deal with the 143 pilots, the standard rate for a Jetstar A320 captain is $125,000 a year. The standard rate for a Qantas captain flying a Boeing 738 (the equivalent plane) is between $200,000 and $240,000. That is, Jetstar pilots will earn a little more than half that of Qantas pilots.
What is more, the Jetstar pilots volunteered for it. The 143 pilots unanimously agreed three months ago to fly A320s for the same pay as 717s. The pilots knew that the old Impulse fleet they had flown into Qantas was being phased out and the pilots would soon be out of a job.
It means that as the 717s (now to be labelled Jetstar) are replaced by larger more efficient A320s, the cost of running the new discount airline will fall from 8.25¢ per passenger kilometre to 7.8¢ - about 11 per cent below Virgin Blue's disclosed cost base.
Qantas chief Geoff Dixon says he did not have Jetstar in mind when Qantas bought Impulse and kept it as a separate subsidiary employing its pilots on the same rates. He did it "for a rainy day". With Virgin Blue at 31.5 per cent market share and rising - it is raining.
The deal with the Impulse/Jetstar pilots also has enormous implications for Qantas and, without wishing to get too carried away, for industrial relations generally.
Qantas pilots have now asked Dixon that they be able to transfer to Jetstar and are prepared to accept the lower rates when they fly its planes. Negotiations are continuing. But the Qantas pilots want seven out of every 20 commands (captain's positions) at Jetstar to go to Qantas pilots (they want to try to maintain their overall pace of advancement to command).
Dixon says he will agree to that only as long as Jetstar pilots can advance to Qantas commands (on Qantas pay rates, that is). So far the Qantas pilots are baulking at that.
In general, it is a sort of bloodless Pilot's Strike Mark 2, where the lower-paid Impulse pilots have brought a low-wage infection into the Qantas host.
Over time, Jetstar will take market share from Qantas. In fact most, if not all, of its passengers will come from Qantas. After all, even Dixon acknowledges that Virgin Blue's market share is likely to remain the same (between 30 and 35 per cent).
This means Qantas's capacity will be reduced and some routes will be dropped as Jetstar brings in more A320s. Qantas pilots will then have this choice: switch to the discount airline on half the pay or lose their jobs as Alan Joyce at Jetstar hires pilots from somewhere else. The pilot pay cut is the first breakthrough that helped Dixon get Jetstar off the ground. The second is that Joyce will be able to match European discount productivity.
He believes he can get up to 1000 hours a year flying time from the pilots, as opposed to Virgin Blue's 700 hours a year (and Qantas's much less).
That will be achieved largely through faster turnarounds - 25 minutes on average, compared with 30 minutes for Virgin Blue and 35 minutes for Qantas.
European discount carrier Ryanair has been helping Joyce design the turnaround processes, but the main thing is that there will be no fixed seat allocation - everyone will be able to sit where they like, which will save time on the ground. Also, flights will be closed 30 minutes before take-off.
In time, it is possible that Jetstar will grow to a third of the market, with the Qantas full-service airline shrinking to a third. If that happened, Qantas group market share would remain the same (around 65 per cent), revenue would fall because of Jetstar's lower fares, but profit would rise.
That is because Qantas will make more profit margin on every discount passenger who transfers from Qantas to Jetstar, thanks to its lower costs, in turn due to the pilots, plus other things like using Avalon as a hub, charging for food and not having seat allocation.
The advent of Jetstar will be a fascinating episode in aviation, but above all it is a major industrial relations event.
[email protected]
============================================
But the Qantas pilots want seven out of every 20 commands (captain's positions) at Jetstar to go to Qantas pilots (they want to try to maintain their overall pace of advancement to command).
In fact most, if not all, of its passengers will come from Qantas. After all, even Dixon acknowledges that Virgin Blue's market share is likely to remain the same (between 30 and 35 per cent).
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I believe the final Jetstar Captains wage will be around 150K now and even then the company is going to suffer as the market dictates higher pay or they will lose too many pilots overseas as is happening at airslave (jetconnect) in NZ.
I don't know where they get this stuff I did just over 900 hrs last year and I know others that did close to their 1000, you fly more you get paid more......simple.
BZTW does Impulse/Jetstar have the same dispo. to go to 1000?
He believes he can get up to 1000 hours a year flying time from the pilots, as opposed to Virgin Blue's 700 hours a year (and Qantas's much less).
BZTW does Impulse/Jetstar have the same dispo. to go to 1000?
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Qantas pilots will then have this choice: switch to the discount airline on half the pay or lose their jobs as Alan Joyce at Jetstar hires pilots from somewhere else.
Sucateesh
The odd QF pilot popping up in the EK Hold Pool ( 2000 here already ) or a half a dozen or so Australian Airlines F/O's sniffing around Hong Kong, is not going to send shivers down managements' spine.
Sadly, you have been outplayed and AIPA playing catch up footy in the last quarter. Victory out of the question and so the draw!
Good luck anyway. I always go the underdog.
Is Oldmeadow playing in the ruck for QF Management versus the pilot group?
Pilots around the world improving conditions in this little boom. Only in Australia is the slide inexorably backwards!
The odd QF pilot popping up in the EK Hold Pool ( 2000 here already ) or a half a dozen or so Australian Airlines F/O's sniffing around Hong Kong, is not going to send shivers down managements' spine.
Sadly, you have been outplayed and AIPA playing catch up footy in the last quarter. Victory out of the question and so the draw!
Good luck anyway. I always go the underdog.
Is Oldmeadow playing in the ruck for QF Management versus the pilot group?
Pilots around the world improving conditions in this little boom. Only in Australia is the slide inexorably backwards!
According to a reliable source - yes, the Impulse pilots do have the same dispensation to operate up to 1000 hrs per annum. 
Yes gnad, Oldmeadow is 'playing in the ruck for QF Management'.
Given his obvious success with the J* negotiations, I guess we'll be seeing a lot more of him when the time comes around for the next LH EBA. Not something to look forward to as far as I'm concerned...
Yes gnad, Oldmeadow is 'playing in the ruck for QF Management'.
Given his obvious success with the J* negotiations, I guess we'll be seeing a lot more of him when the time comes around for the next LH EBA. Not something to look forward to as far as I'm concerned...
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Lancer,
I travelled EzyJet last year. This is how they managed seat allocation.
1. At Check In you get a sequence number on your boarding pass. The earlier you check in the lower the number.
2. At the gate they make boarding announcements for people to board in lots of 20 according to their sequence number (lower numbers first). All boarding passes were inspected mannually to check the number.
3. Once you are past the gate lounge it is every passenger for themselves and the race is on to secure the best seats.
4. The crew assess the suitability of the people who have chosen the exit rows prior to door close and changes are made if necessary.
I travelled EzyJet last year. This is how they managed seat allocation.
1. At Check In you get a sequence number on your boarding pass. The earlier you check in the lower the number.
2. At the gate they make boarding announcements for people to board in lots of 20 according to their sequence number (lower numbers first). All boarding passes were inspected mannually to check the number.
3. Once you are past the gate lounge it is every passenger for themselves and the race is on to secure the best seats.
4. The crew assess the suitability of the people who have chosen the exit rows prior to door close and changes are made if necessary.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I'll be home tomorrow, I'll be able to tell you how easyJet trim the aircraft then. Unless of course, a former easyJet pilot posts before me.
easyJet use the system to board the aircraft as described above (although they don't seem to pay much attention to it in Paris CDG). Ryanair is a bit more of a scrum compared to that. It does seem to work.
bmibaby use allocated seating like Virgin Blue.
easyJet use the system to board the aircraft as described above (although they don't seem to pay much attention to it in Paris CDG). Ryanair is a bit more of a scrum compared to that. It does seem to work.
bmibaby use allocated seating like Virgin Blue.
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oldhasbeen
From anothery.
Exactly and with no seat allocation, there goes another security barrier.
If you don't know who was sitting where after the fact, then they might find out why but the chances of knowing who go out to around 10 to the power of a real lot.
If that's the price of cheap fares then QF will continue to get my dollar.
Burgger they've got me both ways.
From anothery.
Exactly and with no seat allocation, there goes another security barrier.
If you don't know who was sitting where after the fact, then they might find out why but the chances of knowing who go out to around 10 to the power of a real lot.
If that's the price of cheap fares then QF will continue to get my dollar.
Burgger they've got me both ways.
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That's a pretty narrow sighted article. It implies that the lower cost per ASK is because of the pilot wages, when in fact they are just a part of it. Lower airframe and engine lease costs, lower fuel costs on QF buying power, same for spares, and lower engineering costs, ground handelling and customer service staff cost all go to the ASK bottom line, some of them more significantly so than pilot wages !!
I would think that if what you know about aviation is just working out how to plug in the headset, then one could be forgiven for omiting these significant points when discussing low ASK's, but to claim to be an expert and not even mention them
I would think that if what you know about aviation is just working out how to plug in the headset, then one could be forgiven for omiting these significant points when discussing low ASK's, but to claim to be an expert and not even mention them
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Many US carriers have been operating without seat allocation from the 1970's with aircraft larger and smaller than the 717. Surely the trim problem has been solved by now.
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Puzzle me this....
As an aussie expat who is now mercifully ex easyjet allow me to cast some light on free seating. Basically the loadsheet evens out the load across the 3 loading compartments that the 737 pax compartment is divided into. It is then up to the cabin crew to make sure that the pax are evenly distributed across the cabin and if necessary make adjustments if say 50 pax all sit at one end of the plane. Most of the time the No1 would come and ask where we would like the pax to be if this was the case. In practise with good load factors it is never an issue. On the odd occasion when we flew a late night shuttle to Scotland with 10 pax we'd seat them all forward. All baggage is loaded into the rear hold except prams, breakables etc which went into the forward hold. Again on the odd occasion that we maxed out with baggage the procedure was always to fill the rear hold before filling the forward hold. In almost 4 years of flying with them I never had a significant trim problem. As for the pushing and shoving to get onboard, well it is inevitable....
And finally, dont sell out. T & C's across the world are on the decline, we must all make a stand to keep our profession just that - professional! All the best and happy landings.
As an aussie expat who is now mercifully ex easyjet allow me to cast some light on free seating. Basically the loadsheet evens out the load across the 3 loading compartments that the 737 pax compartment is divided into. It is then up to the cabin crew to make sure that the pax are evenly distributed across the cabin and if necessary make adjustments if say 50 pax all sit at one end of the plane. Most of the time the No1 would come and ask where we would like the pax to be if this was the case. In practise with good load factors it is never an issue. On the odd occasion when we flew a late night shuttle to Scotland with 10 pax we'd seat them all forward. All baggage is loaded into the rear hold except prams, breakables etc which went into the forward hold. Again on the odd occasion that we maxed out with baggage the procedure was always to fill the rear hold before filling the forward hold. In almost 4 years of flying with them I never had a significant trim problem. As for the pushing and shoving to get onboard, well it is inevitable....
And finally, dont sell out. T & C's across the world are on the decline, we must all make a stand to keep our profession just that - professional! All the best and happy landings.
If the QF guys want commands so bad they should be fighting with CASA to bring in the cancellation of ATPLs to over 60 year olds , there would be more promotion than jetstar could offer then.
Also what happens to the Jetstar /Impulse Pilots who didnt do HSC, are they denied entrance to Qantas like so many Ansett Pilots . Its shaping up for a real bunfight!
Also what happens to the Jetstar /Impulse Pilots who didnt do HSC, are they denied entrance to Qantas like so many Ansett Pilots . Its shaping up for a real bunfight!