SQ B777 Incident Changi
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Keg,
I originally entered this discussion in response to Capn Bloggs comment:
You can take this thread off on a different tangent to suit your argument, but I reiterate my point that wages are not related to standards.
However, I will buy into your argument regarding training.
VB has some of the most experienced 737 drivers in the world, with a wealth of overseas experience as well as domestically. This knowledge is passed on through structured training, and one only has to look at the amount of money that has been invested in the new simulator centre in Brisbane.
Over to you.
NG
If we REALLY want to start comparing things then we leave money (as in 'pay) aside
Cheap Charlie Airlines that pay peanuts to their drivers have a lower standard of driver
However, I will buy into your argument regarding training.
VB has some of the most experienced 737 drivers in the world, with a wealth of overseas experience as well as domestically. This knowledge is passed on through structured training, and one only has to look at the amount of money that has been invested in the new simulator centre in Brisbane.
Over to you.
NG
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NG... I believe KEG asked you to back up your statement about Independent audits have found that Virgin Pilots operate at a higher standard than their QANTAS counterparts ...
I see you have chosen to ignore that..
I see you have chosen to ignore that..
Nunc est bibendum
OK NG, I'll spell it out for you. I've just proved your case against Cap'n Bloggs WRT low wages= low standards- and I did it without making a BS statement like your 'independant audits...DJ better...' crap. Indeed, a close look at most first world 'low cost' carriers will show that standards are broadly the same. I can't be bothered looking up the specific research in my texts but I've seen it, it does exist. If you'd like I WILL track it down. Can we let that go now? I mostly agree with you on that point-- and always did- but was never going to let your BS 'independant audit' crap slip by without being challenged.
So, I'd like to know of this 'indendant audit' that you claim puts DJ pilots in a better light than QF! Was it LOSA? Was it some other form of audit? Surely you can tell us! If you're going to make such a grand statement about the skills of all DJ crew you should at least be able to tell us who it was that was independant. Do you know? Have you seen the data or was this something that was passed along in the crew room or in the pub or at a BBQ at a mates place? Your previous silence on the matter despite being asked a number of times doesn't inspire me with confidence either way! In fact, your silence on the issue altogether suggests that you don't even know what LOSA is let alone threat/error management in the context of LOSA.
So, what was the 'independant audit' that you claim occurred or were you just grand standing and making yourself and others feel good? Believe me, I'd have much more respect for you if you just admitted that you had nothing and it was crew room scuttlebutt. If it WAS LOSA then see my earlier post about SOPs and so on. Given that you won't answer, I'll assume for the time being you just didn't and don't know. In that case, your comment at the time WAS purely grand standing.
Have a nice day.
So, I'd like to know of this 'indendant audit' that you claim puts DJ pilots in a better light than QF! Was it LOSA? Was it some other form of audit? Surely you can tell us! If you're going to make such a grand statement about the skills of all DJ crew you should at least be able to tell us who it was that was independant. Do you know? Have you seen the data or was this something that was passed along in the crew room or in the pub or at a BBQ at a mates place? Your previous silence on the matter despite being asked a number of times doesn't inspire me with confidence either way! In fact, your silence on the issue altogether suggests that you don't even know what LOSA is let alone threat/error management in the context of LOSA.
So, what was the 'independant audit' that you claim occurred or were you just grand standing and making yourself and others feel good? Believe me, I'd have much more respect for you if you just admitted that you had nothing and it was crew room scuttlebutt. If it WAS LOSA then see my earlier post about SOPs and so on. Given that you won't answer, I'll assume for the time being you just didn't and don't know. In that case, your comment at the time WAS purely grand standing.
Have a nice day.
Nunc est bibendum
Obviously. Go back and read it all again.
The stats I alluded to about world wide low cost being less safe don't hold up to close scrutiny. Once you take out third world airlines, Russia and China, the crash statistics between low cost and non is almost negligible.
Answer the question. Were you grand standing when you made your 'independant audit' statement? Avoid it much longer and I'll email it to Woomera to make it a poll and you'll be voted off the island!
The stats I alluded to about world wide low cost being less safe don't hold up to close scrutiny. Once you take out third world airlines, Russia and China, the crash statistics between low cost and non is almost negligible.
Answer the question. Were you grand standing when you made your 'independant audit' statement? Avoid it much longer and I'll email it to Woomera to make it a poll and you'll be voted off the island!
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Keg,
E-mail it to your Mummy and Daddy too, for all I care.
I am enjoying your frustration so much, especially when you seem to be the expert on audits. You have rambled on about the audit comment, as a diversion from the real issue.
Go cry to Woomera you little sook.
Avoid it much longer and I'll email it to Woomera to make it a poll and you'll be voted off the island!
I am enjoying your frustration so much, especially when you seem to be the expert on audits. You have rambled on about the audit comment, as a diversion from the real issue.
Go cry to Woomera you little sook.
Nunc est bibendum
Frustrated NG? Not at all digger. You duck and weave but you can't avoid the fact that EVERYONE knows that your 'independant audit' statement was grand standing BS based on zilch!!
That's not frustrating, it's hilarious. The fact you don't pick sarcasm and respond with venom is just as funny. I dunno why you don't just bite the bullet and admit it! You may regain the credibility you're losing!
That's not frustrating, it's hilarious. The fact you don't pick sarcasm and respond with venom is just as funny. I dunno why you don't just bite the bullet and admit it! You may regain the credibility you're losing!
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Listen up Keg and NG !
If you want to continue slagging each other off do it in private will you?
This has got absolutely nothing to do with the 777 incident
c'mon guys show a tiny bit of professionalism here
If you want to continue slagging each other off do it in private will you?
This has got absolutely nothing to do with the 777 incident
c'mon guys show a tiny bit of professionalism here
Nunc est bibendum
Fair point faheel but it was professionalism I was trying to get out of NG by him justifying his BS, grand standing statements. You can't let crap like that just go through to the keeper without being challenged
Alas, it was not to be. NG remains a coward. 
Done and done.
Alas, it was not to be. NG remains a coward.
Done and done.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
It might be time to quit while you're ahead, Keg.
IndependEnt (there's no "a" in there) can very well mean INDEPENDENT... the COD definiton - or part thereof being, Not depending on others for one's opinion or conduct.
Therefore it is quite plausible that NG may well have conducted his own, independent survey to arrive at the conclusion he has.
In real (aviation) life it is also reasonable to assume that if an employee feels that s/he is being paid less than fair market value, then s/he may well feel less than s/he believes s/he is expected to feel in terms of employee-employer responsibility, ie. the "give-take" factor.
Safety, for professional pilots, will not be a factor, however cost saving/costing strategies may well be.
Swings and roundabouts.
A conscientious, company minded pilot can - in ONE month - make savings equivalent to at least 6 months salary, if so motivated.
According to a recently conducted "independent survey"!!
IndependEnt (there's no "a" in there) can very well mean INDEPENDENT... the COD definiton - or part thereof being, Not depending on others for one's opinion or conduct.
Therefore it is quite plausible that NG may well have conducted his own, independent survey to arrive at the conclusion he has.
In real (aviation) life it is also reasonable to assume that if an employee feels that s/he is being paid less than fair market value, then s/he may well feel less than s/he believes s/he is expected to feel in terms of employee-employer responsibility, ie. the "give-take" factor.
Safety, for professional pilots, will not be a factor, however cost saving/costing strategies may well be.
Swings and roundabouts.
A conscientious, company minded pilot can - in ONE month - make savings equivalent to at least 6 months salary, if so motivated.
According to a recently conducted "independent survey"!!
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Spelling Man LEAPS into action... thrusting his hips at the offending word... ooops too late!....KAPTIN M has already corrected the error!!!
Come, Punctuation Boy, my firm buttocked buddy..... Lets us not tarry and delay the good citizens of PPRUNE!!!
....... AWAY!!!
Come, Punctuation Boy, my firm buttocked buddy..... Lets us not tarry and delay the good citizens of PPRUNE!!!
....... AWAY!!!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Consider hourly cost rates of the aircraft you fly - let's assume it's a 737 costing $6,500/hour.
In a month of (say) 65 hours blocked flying it is possible to save about 5% (say 3 hours) - or alternatively to increase by about the same amount. A total of 6 hours...actually about 6.5.
Brief enough?
Wait over, RHCP!
In a month of (say) 65 hours blocked flying it is possible to save about 5% (say 3 hours) - or alternatively to increase by about the same amount. A total of 6 hours...actually about 6.5.
Brief enough?
Wait over, RHCP!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Quite correct, DA.
Unfortunately (or fortunately), that sort of opportunity (to SAVE the company $$'s) doesn't arise on a daily basis, month in-month out.
Unfortunately (or fortunately), that sort of opportunity (to SAVE the company $$'s) doesn't arise on a daily basis, month in-month out.
