More Horror Stories from Qantas (Crikey)
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More Horror Stories from Qantas (Crikey)
Crikey.com
15/01/04
More Horror Stories from Qantas
Oh dear too many to fit on this post, go here to read:
http://www.crikey.com.au/business/2004/01/06-0002.html
Wirraway
==========================================
15/01/04
More Horror Stories from Qantas
Oh dear too many to fit on this post, go here to read:
http://www.crikey.com.au/business/2004/01/06-0002.html
Wirraway
==========================================
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I'm sure if anyone has the desire to look hard enough, there will be an equal, if not greater amount of the same inane 3rd or 5th hand stories about EVERY airline in the world............ Except most people have better things to do.......
I think theintroduction to the article probably gives an insight into the professional, objective style of reporting utilised:
Pretty much sums up the rest of the article.
Axe to grind anyone...?
More QANTAS horror stories Disgruntled QANTAS customers After the former lover of a first class QANTAS hostie gave Crikey some tips on what's hot and what's not in the plush high altitude world serving the rich and famous, we have received a flood of complaints about the service levels at the national carrier.
Axe to grind anyone...?
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Like it or not QF has become the 800lb Gorilla of the local region. Among the tens of millions of passengers it flies every year, you are going to have a percentage with bad experiences.
And some people you will never make happy.
And some people you will never make happy.
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No - I really think there is more to the Crikey stories than you give credit. Granted a somewhat jilted (sp?) former lover may make the equation spicey, but it doesnt change the general impression that the levels of service at QF have plummeted - in a direct correlation to the staff morale - in an equally exact correlation to the crap management formulae.
Bean counters gleeful slashing will never equal customer service/loyalty or staff loyalty - a dangerous path for a competitive service industry.
The penny pinching inside QF is simply unbelieveable. None of these people making the decisions have heard of the phrase penny wise - pound foolish.
Worst thing is they will not listen to their front line staff - cabin crew. Result: Cabin Crew give up caring as they have to once again don their apology airlines sash and look foolish.
Perhaps the move to the Jetstar toy-airline model is their only hope. Trying to call themselves a full-service airline with a straight face was starting to be a sick joke.
It sure didnt take long under the stewardship of Strong and Dixon to destroy what was once a great airline to fly with.
Once again selling a government asset back to its owners is an unmitigated disaster.
As a (gladly) ex Hostie, I can honestly say that I am always looking for an alternative to QF when I fly overseas - thankfully JAL, CX and UAE are normally going where I am .
I will admit that I cannot bring myself to fly VB in Australia however - the fares are generally the same but the cookie-cutter dumb blond image wears pretty thin when they dont even know how to get an aircraft boarded quickly. I would hate to see them have to evacuate one in an emerg.
Good luck to QF people - as long as your management live in fantasy land and ignore the customers and staff - you are surely going to need it if QF is to survive.
(BTW: The stories mentioned about CC habits I thought were pretty tame compared to my memories - and suggested that the 'former lover' had only heard the thin edge of what really went on - but I don't expect to hear too many stones thrown on this thread from QF pilots - or the real truth may come out about some of your collective history in the slip ports!)
Bean counters gleeful slashing will never equal customer service/loyalty or staff loyalty - a dangerous path for a competitive service industry.
The penny pinching inside QF is simply unbelieveable. None of these people making the decisions have heard of the phrase penny wise - pound foolish.
Worst thing is they will not listen to their front line staff - cabin crew. Result: Cabin Crew give up caring as they have to once again don their apology airlines sash and look foolish.
Perhaps the move to the Jetstar toy-airline model is their only hope. Trying to call themselves a full-service airline with a straight face was starting to be a sick joke.
It sure didnt take long under the stewardship of Strong and Dixon to destroy what was once a great airline to fly with.
Once again selling a government asset back to its owners is an unmitigated disaster.
As a (gladly) ex Hostie, I can honestly say that I am always looking for an alternative to QF when I fly overseas - thankfully JAL, CX and UAE are normally going where I am .
I will admit that I cannot bring myself to fly VB in Australia however - the fares are generally the same but the cookie-cutter dumb blond image wears pretty thin when they dont even know how to get an aircraft boarded quickly. I would hate to see them have to evacuate one in an emerg.
Good luck to QF people - as long as your management live in fantasy land and ignore the customers and staff - you are surely going to need it if QF is to survive.
(BTW: The stories mentioned about CC habits I thought were pretty tame compared to my memories - and suggested that the 'former lover' had only heard the thin edge of what really went on - but I don't expect to hear too many stones thrown on this thread from QF pilots - or the real truth may come out about some of your collective history in the slip ports!)
Last edited by faded pucci; 23rd Jan 2004 at 20:27.
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faded pucci, by what measure has the privatisation of QF been an "unmitigated disaster"? The only measure in your post seems to be staff morale. I don't know what morale was like before privatisation but I seem to recall QF/AA weren't famous for their sparkling service in the public service days.
Nunc est bibendum
I had the pleasure of travelling First class over a few sectors recently and had a bit of a chat to both some passengers and crew. The overwhelming sentiment from passengers was that they had noticed that the service level had picked up over the last couple of years- in both cabin crew and cabin amenities (seats, videos, etc). The crew seemed much happier and they mentioned how relatively simple and effective the new 'service' was at delivering what the passengers want and how relatively easy (or at least 'not complicated') the service was for the crew to get out to the punters.
I guess when DJ is carrying 70% of the domestic market and about 40% of the international market then we can compare horror stories and know we're comparing apples with apples!
I guess when DJ is carrying 70% of the domestic market and about 40% of the international market then we can compare horror stories and know we're comparing apples with apples!
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There are times the travelling public in Oz get right up my nose! The problem appears to be that they/we have been spoiled by the old two-airline system, when competing carriers had only service quality to differentiate their appeal. What is being bought is a seat on an aeroplane from point A to point C, usually via point B, NOT a 1st class seat with flunkies at hand to indulge every whim. It's a method of short-term transport, for Christ's sake, not a bloody ocean-liner cruise.
Yes, I understand the on-going whinges about seat quality in Cattle-class and, because of my height and build, I sympathise! If the worst I ever had to endure is the cock-ups described in Crikey.com, I'd be reasonably content. All I want for my money is a safe, comfortable flight with, depending on destination, enough food to prevent me drying up and blowing away! As for IFE, can the travelling public no longer read? Does everything have to be provided for them?
I'll fly QF ANYTIME, in preference to some others, most notably SQ. NEVER again will I, or any member of my family, grace them with our presence or money. I never, in all my life, met a more arrogant bunch of cabin crew (MEL-SIN-LHR and back), and any airline which offloads my wife in SIN, at 23:30 local, alone, with the comment,"..you are staff travel, get off, don't collect your baggage, we'll tell you IF we are to carry you any further", is not getting my business.
QF was my company's competitor, (AN), but they STILL can knock the spots off any other airline, and I don't care from where they come. Christ, we talk about whinging Poms, Aussies could teach whiging to Olympic standard, anytime!
Rant over,
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
Yes, I understand the on-going whinges about seat quality in Cattle-class and, because of my height and build, I sympathise! If the worst I ever had to endure is the cock-ups described in Crikey.com, I'd be reasonably content. All I want for my money is a safe, comfortable flight with, depending on destination, enough food to prevent me drying up and blowing away! As for IFE, can the travelling public no longer read? Does everything have to be provided for them?
I'll fly QF ANYTIME, in preference to some others, most notably SQ. NEVER again will I, or any member of my family, grace them with our presence or money. I never, in all my life, met a more arrogant bunch of cabin crew (MEL-SIN-LHR and back), and any airline which offloads my wife in SIN, at 23:30 local, alone, with the comment,"..you are staff travel, get off, don't collect your baggage, we'll tell you IF we are to carry you any further", is not getting my business.
QF was my company's competitor, (AN), but they STILL can knock the spots off any other airline, and I don't care from where they come. Christ, we talk about whinging Poms, Aussies could teach whiging to Olympic standard, anytime!
Rant over,
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
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Night Owl.
Abandoning SQ for QF because of poor customer service had me almost rolling around on the floor with laughter.
SQ is a crap place to work but you really have to admit thier customer service (and that of CX too) is far superior to QF.
I would work for QF in a heartbeat but I wouldnt pretend they offer quality service.
Abandoning SQ for QF because of poor customer service had me almost rolling around on the floor with laughter.
SQ is a crap place to work but you really have to admit thier customer service (and that of CX too) is far superior to QF.
I would work for QF in a heartbeat but I wouldnt pretend they offer quality service.
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Having inside knowledge of the cost cutting exercises at QF I can say that 2 years ago much of the cost cutting did severely affect customer service and on time performance.
The problem is that executives key performance Indicators (KPI's) are linked to cost reduction. Save enough money and you might get a bigger bonus. This can be, and is, often counter productive. Eg. Sign off a defect to get the aircraft out on time gains Engineering managers brownie points. This sort of mentality can lead to corner cutting to get that bonus and can be counter productive to safety standards.
Accountants tend to have too much power in many Australian companies at present to the detriment of good customer service. I see it in many industries. Companies with good customer service will always prosper, even if it costs a little more.
Having inside knowledge of the cost cutting exercises at QF I can say that 2 years ago much of the cost cutting did severely affect customer service and on time performance.
The problem is that executives key performance Indicators (KPI's) are linked to cost reduction. Save enough money and you might get a bigger bonus. This can be, and is, often counter productive. Eg. Sign off a defect to get the aircraft out on time gains Engineering managers brownie points. This sort of mentality can lead to corner cutting to get that bonus and can be counter productive to safety standards.
Accountants tend to have too much power in many Australian companies at present to the detriment of good customer service. I see it in many industries. Companies with good customer service will always prosper, even if it costs a little more.
The problem is that executives key performance Indicators (KPI's) are linked to cost reduction. Save enough money and you might get a bigger bonus. This can be, and is, often counter productive. Eg. Sign off a defect to get the aircraft out on time gains Engineering managers brownie points. This sort of mentality can lead to corner cutting to get that bonus and can be counter productive to safety standards.
Accountants tend to have too much power in many Australian companies at present to the detriment of good customer service. I see it in many industries. Companies with good customer service will always prosper, even if it costs a little more.
Having inside knowledge of the cost cutting exercises at QF I can say that 2 years ago much of the cost cutting did severely affect customer service and on time performance.
The problem is that executives key performance Indicators (KPI's) are linked to cost reduction. Save enough money and you might get a bigger bonus. This can be, and is, often counter productive. Eg. Sign off a defect to get the aircraft out on time gains Engineering managers brownie points. This sort of mentality can lead to corner cutting to get that bonus and can be counter productive to safety standards.
Accountants tend to have too much power in many Australian companies at present to the detriment of good customer service. I see it in many industries. Companies with good customer service will always prosper, even if it costs a little more.
PT6,
A post so good it was worth saying twice!!
Seriously, you've hit the nail on the head. I'd expand on the theme a little though. With a public company, not only is it in the directors interest to get a short term gain by cost-cutting and thus securing a bonus, but institutional share holders are only really interested in a rise in share price NOW to make there yearly figures look good. If they get a wiff that the company has been gutted to make a short term profit, they just dump those shares.
A Capitalist market economy is the best system we've been able to come up with, but that doesn't mean it hasn't got it's limitations!!
A post so good it was worth saying twice!!
Seriously, you've hit the nail on the head. I'd expand on the theme a little though. With a public company, not only is it in the directors interest to get a short term gain by cost-cutting and thus securing a bonus, but institutional share holders are only really interested in a rise in share price NOW to make there yearly figures look good. If they get a wiff that the company has been gutted to make a short term profit, they just dump those shares.
A Capitalist market economy is the best system we've been able to come up with, but that doesn't mean it hasn't got it's limitations!!
Last edited by Wizofoz; 24th Jan 2004 at 17:01.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
It in't only QF that is currently exposed to this type of management.
Let's face it - the Geoff Dixons of many airlines are being supremely rewarded, annually, for EVERY percentage point/$ increase they can show in earnings.
Not hard to do for any dullard with ANY company in the short (3-5 year) term - as long as the medium to longer term "wellness" and profitability aren't a consideration!
But after all, WHY should they be, because by then the current G.D.'s/M.J.'s will have skimmed enough to have set themselves up for a more than comfortable" retirement, whilst leaving thousands - less fortunate - out of work.....probably until after retirement age!
GREED is the name of the "game".
IMHO, Virgin Blue's Brett Godfrey does NOT fall into the above category (yeah, yeah, I know that some of you will disagree..), because he kicked VB off on the low cost "foot", and is paid a bonus for IMPROVING VB's market share from an already low base, whereas QF's Geoff Dixon has to play both cards - one of "screw the workers" to get an increase in QF margins, and a second deal using Australian and Jet Star along similar lines to VB.
Except Dixon is AGAIN going to have to screw QF employees on the pretence of setting up "low cost" alternatives to QANTAS, whilst maintaing a profitable QF.
Let's face it - the Geoff Dixons of many airlines are being supremely rewarded, annually, for EVERY percentage point/$ increase they can show in earnings.
Not hard to do for any dullard with ANY company in the short (3-5 year) term - as long as the medium to longer term "wellness" and profitability aren't a consideration!
But after all, WHY should they be, because by then the current G.D.'s/M.J.'s will have skimmed enough to have set themselves up for a more than comfortable" retirement, whilst leaving thousands - less fortunate - out of work.....probably until after retirement age!
GREED is the name of the "game".
IMHO, Virgin Blue's Brett Godfrey does NOT fall into the above category (yeah, yeah, I know that some of you will disagree..), because he kicked VB off on the low cost "foot", and is paid a bonus for IMPROVING VB's market share from an already low base, whereas QF's Geoff Dixon has to play both cards - one of "screw the workers" to get an increase in QF margins, and a second deal using Australian and Jet Star along similar lines to VB.
Except Dixon is AGAIN going to have to screw QF employees on the pretence of setting up "low cost" alternatives to QANTAS, whilst maintaing a profitable QF.
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Hey QF isnt the only one being bashed. Check out this site http://www.geocities.com/jasghar_2000/emirates2.html to read the bashing Emirates gets. Its quiet comical actually, but makes my blood boil.
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Kap M, your thoughts on management (except at VB who have a sunlight emitting rear orifice apparently) are not new and won't change regardless about what's written here. But if you seriously think Geoff Dixon and others CEOs are lacking in brain power than you are deluding yourself and not helping your argument very much.
By any standards Brett Godfrey's financial benefit for his role in starting VB is enormous. It eclipses most publicly listed company's CEOs. Good on him - I think BG is an excellent CEO and I don't begrudge him one cent of his multi million dollar bonuses. I don't however fall in to the trap of believing VB's hype - they aren't a warm and fuzzy environment. They have an extremely sharp and ruthless business accumen and a keener eye for the bottom line than most. Plenty who appear here know that, they work for him!
By any standards Brett Godfrey's financial benefit for his role in starting VB is enormous. It eclipses most publicly listed company's CEOs. Good on him - I think BG is an excellent CEO and I don't begrudge him one cent of his multi million dollar bonuses. I don't however fall in to the trap of believing VB's hype - they aren't a warm and fuzzy environment. They have an extremely sharp and ruthless business accumen and a keener eye for the bottom line than most. Plenty who appear here know that, they work for him!
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Firstly; Happy Australia Day everyone!
Here's a tip that worked for me and may well work for all those disgruntled pax not getting the seats they want.
Method 1: Forcefully push your Bronze FF Membership for seat allocation.
Method 2: (the method I used and got results). When checking in ....smile, ask the person how they are and take genuine interest. When phoning ahead for a seat allocation........ smile (yes even over the phone) ask the person how they are and take genuine interest. When dealing with a ticketing office........smile, ask the person how they are and take genuine interest.
I found that by treating the airline staff exactly how I would like to be treated I always got my desired seat, was never charged for excess baggage (even though I was blatantly over), and found myself on quite a relaxed flight , regardless of class or airline.
My best memory, cruising across Russia with my feet up in Economy (I was on the verge of lying down thanks to a prudent seat allocation) with a belly full of food and more drinks than I needed and hosties happy to supply more. Why did I need a better class than Economy? All this because of a smile and a courteous undemanding request at checkin.
Here's to method 2 !!
Cheers
Here's a tip that worked for me and may well work for all those disgruntled pax not getting the seats they want.
Method 1: Forcefully push your Bronze FF Membership for seat allocation.
Method 2: (the method I used and got results). When checking in ....smile, ask the person how they are and take genuine interest. When phoning ahead for a seat allocation........ smile (yes even over the phone) ask the person how they are and take genuine interest. When dealing with a ticketing office........smile, ask the person how they are and take genuine interest.
I found that by treating the airline staff exactly how I would like to be treated I always got my desired seat, was never charged for excess baggage (even though I was blatantly over), and found myself on quite a relaxed flight , regardless of class or airline.
My best memory, cruising across Russia with my feet up in Economy (I was on the verge of lying down thanks to a prudent seat allocation) with a belly full of food and more drinks than I needed and hosties happy to supply more. Why did I need a better class than Economy? All this because of a smile and a courteous undemanding request at checkin.
Here's to method 2 !!
Cheers
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Howzabout horror stories from VB?
I would have to say an aircraft running around without a standby hydraulic system must rank up there or taking off with pitot covers on?
Who takes responsibility for that?
Kaptin M, I agree with most of your comments but then again if Brett Godfrey were in the same position as Geoff Dixon, would he not do the same thing??
Yes he would but he'd go further and risk industrial action.
Geoff Dixon has to deal with a unionised workforce as opposed to Brett Godfrey.
The likes of BA have seen how ground staff disputes and Flt Attendant strikes have caused mayhem and cut into their bottom line.
When did VB staff last strike?
Lack of unions is a wonderful thing to Mr Godfrey Kap M.
I'm sure if 100% of VB pilots were in the AFAP then Mr Godfrey would renumerate the pilots alot better and be more accomodating at EB time.
Could you imagine if VB decided to start ops in 1989 with a non-unionised workforce and slashing airline wages by up to 40%?
Now that would have caused blood to be spilled on the apron!!
Godfrey was regarded as a known "pilot hater" in GA in Oz many years ago and while he gets a well paid bonus for improving market share, dont forget an airline is a team effort and everyone should be rewarded by a bonus system seeing as they get paid alot less and in my opinion the staff deserve alot more pay.
I would have to say an aircraft running around without a standby hydraulic system must rank up there or taking off with pitot covers on?
Who takes responsibility for that?
Kaptin M, I agree with most of your comments but then again if Brett Godfrey were in the same position as Geoff Dixon, would he not do the same thing??
Yes he would but he'd go further and risk industrial action.
Geoff Dixon has to deal with a unionised workforce as opposed to Brett Godfrey.
The likes of BA have seen how ground staff disputes and Flt Attendant strikes have caused mayhem and cut into their bottom line.
When did VB staff last strike?
Lack of unions is a wonderful thing to Mr Godfrey Kap M.
I'm sure if 100% of VB pilots were in the AFAP then Mr Godfrey would renumerate the pilots alot better and be more accomodating at EB time.
Could you imagine if VB decided to start ops in 1989 with a non-unionised workforce and slashing airline wages by up to 40%?
Now that would have caused blood to be spilled on the apron!!
Godfrey was regarded as a known "pilot hater" in GA in Oz many years ago and while he gets a well paid bonus for improving market share, dont forget an airline is a team effort and everyone should be rewarded by a bonus system seeing as they get paid alot less and in my opinion the staff deserve alot more pay.
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Ah yes we like Method 2.
If only more people had this attitude what a pleasant experience flying would be - for passengers and crew.
It's the old saying "You get more bees with honey" and after 14 years in the cabin I can assure you it works every time.
Cheers to you o1genesis.
If only more people had this attitude what a pleasant experience flying would be - for passengers and crew.
It's the old saying "You get more bees with honey" and after 14 years in the cabin I can assure you it works every time.
Cheers to you o1genesis.
