emulating the US?
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emulating the US?
If we are emulating the US airspace system, which is "OHHH so safe" .......... does this mean that we also should be flying wearing our baseball caps backwards, a six-shooter in our hip pockets, and Jerry Springers biography in the seat pocket in lieu of the "inflight magazine' ?
WHY WHY WHY are we to follow the US in almost everything that we endeavour ? Why can't we be recognised for what we are ? a smart, independant country which has the nouse to change operations to adapt to our unique country !
What happens next ? we get "De-iceing equipment"at DARWIN? Snow ploughs in Cairns? I mean, the US have them everywhere... why don't we ?
What part of Australia is DICK gonna F**K with next ? maybe a push to have tomato sauce renamed "Ketchup " ?
If Dick likes the US so much... why doesn't he F**K off and live there? I will even chip in for your airfare!... and take 'the minister for Qantas" as your carry on baggage please
WHY WHY WHY are we to follow the US in almost everything that we endeavour ? Why can't we be recognised for what we are ? a smart, independant country which has the nouse to change operations to adapt to our unique country !
What happens next ? we get "De-iceing equipment"at DARWIN? Snow ploughs in Cairns? I mean, the US have them everywhere... why don't we ?
What part of Australia is DICK gonna F**K with next ? maybe a push to have tomato sauce renamed "Ketchup " ?
If Dick likes the US so much... why doesn't he F**K off and live there? I will even chip in for your airfare!... and take 'the minister for Qantas" as your carry on baggage please
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You can't blame dick he has made money all his life ripping others off. Dick Smith Electronics = Tandy, Australian Geographic = National Goegraphic, Matches, biscuits, airspace systems. Easily the most unoriginal person I have ever seen. To note though is that he gets in, makes his buck then runs before it all goes wrong. If I were a V8 super car driver or a professional dancer I would be very worried because when he runs and hides from this one, you may be next!
Props are for boats!
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The current NAS debacle, to me is tsill in need of review and if the Ministers cant get that vibe by now well, lets give them the arse in the next election I say. I just wish I knew who Latham was never heard of him.
Back to the airpsace. Emulating the US system is ok ,BUT really we are never going to emulate the same traffic numbers. Probabaly at any time over Australia there are 200- 300 aircraft max flying around compared to 4000 aircraft in the USA ona normal day, with a peek of 7000 for this last thanks giving weekend.
To me I dont think were are ready for this stuff next. The world media, CNN, BBC WORLD, are latching onto this debacle and its making the current government look like a bunch of GOONs, do something proactive . POSTPONE THE IMPLEMENTATAION NOW!
Sheep
Back to the airpsace. Emulating the US system is ok ,BUT really we are never going to emulate the same traffic numbers. Probabaly at any time over Australia there are 200- 300 aircraft max flying around compared to 4000 aircraft in the USA ona normal day, with a peek of 7000 for this last thanks giving weekend.
To me I dont think were are ready for this stuff next. The world media, CNN, BBC WORLD, are latching onto this debacle and its making the current government look like a bunch of GOONs, do something proactive . POSTPONE THE IMPLEMENTATAION NOW!
Sheep
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Let's see - dentention without due process a la "Woomera" centre, inhumane traeatment of children in said centres, illegal invasion of foreign nations, increasing jingoistic arrogance from politicians - yep, Australia is pretty much like the US!
You called???
Woomera
You called???
Woomera
Last edited by Woomera; 5th Dec 2003 at 08:45.
NAS........... It does work. The only major difference between the U.S. and us (apart from the volume) is that they have the appropriate numbers of controllers to provide proper coverage.
You hear this debacle about a "near MIS" down near melbourne the other day. They were in Class C (or A.. whatever they use down there). It was the controllers stuff up!
Its not a case of "using everything the yanks use" but there have been several costly and expensive "australian Self efforts" in the past that have cost the country billions. One good example is the Collins class Submarine Debacle.
All this system is essentially doing is mimicing that used in the U.S. which is very similar to that used un Europe. Maybe we are the backwards ones for not using their system in the first place. Isolating ourselves from the rest of the world, making us tand individually rather then a global effort.
You hear this debacle about a "near MIS" down near melbourne the other day. They were in Class C (or A.. whatever they use down there). It was the controllers stuff up!
Its not a case of "using everything the yanks use" but there have been several costly and expensive "australian Self efforts" in the past that have cost the country billions. One good example is the Collins class Submarine Debacle.
All this system is essentially doing is mimicing that used in the U.S. which is very similar to that used un Europe. Maybe we are the backwards ones for not using their system in the first place. Isolating ourselves from the rest of the world, making us tand individually rather then a global effort.
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Bula you are obviously the latest in a long line of sacrificial lambs being thrown in here to sprout off unresearched idiocy. Please befor you type again have a think and have a read. 65nm Melbourne at F175 is in E. Modify your post thank you.
/me pats Bula on the head. Drive through thanks. Next?
/me pats Bula on the head. Drive through thanks. Next?
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Bula, here is a quote from a previous post of yours...
Now, what was that advice about speculating and traps shut ? Moron. Do you even understand the difference between class C and class E, or have you been to the John Anderson flying school?
Yes, except without most of the infrastructure. Sort of like building a bridge, without any of the supports. At least it's a global-looking bridge.
I had the unfortunate situation of being the aircraft on Finals for the northern Runway at the time. For those who like to speculate keep your traps shut. As anyone knows in this situation anything could have happened
All this system is essentially doing is mimicing that used in the U.S.
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NZer - not to mention insulting behaviour to our neighbours (some with bigger armies than our population) and Return to the Cold War with Son of Starwars. The real issue I have is the compaceny of Aus - but I wonder if we really have a choice - just do as you say chaps and everything will be just fine.
and where is the safety case for ABM's in "E" I wonder!!!!!!!
(Got to admire the Kiwis - they are their own people - courage and national pride for NZ - not wanting to be a 53rd state of anywhere.).
and where is the safety case for ABM's in "E" I wonder!!!!!!!
(Got to admire the Kiwis - they are their own people - courage and national pride for NZ - not wanting to be a 53rd state of anywhere.).
Kremin
Admire the Piwis!
Isolationists in the South Pacific. Piss poor help in a regional security role too.
Never in their history have they faced a national challenge and gone out on a limb.
And they are all here like NZER! Bludgers.
Admire the Piwis!
Isolationists in the South Pacific. Piss poor help in a regional security role too.
Never in their history have they faced a national challenge and gone out on a limb.
And they are all here like NZER! Bludgers.
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Brisboy - correct and agreed - good bunch the KANUCKS (I have friends!!!). Don't mind saying GOLF FOXTROT if that's what they believe to be true.
Gnadenberg - you hit the nail on the head - that's the point - They do what THEY want to do. The stuff about military support is out of order though. They are ALWAYS there mate.
The real talent of these chaps eg "The Gang of Three", their humble servants and especially the latest comedic presentation by our foreign minister - They do so well at not bursting into laughter at what they are saying. And some people actually believe this stuff! Me - couldn't do it - no self control.
But - never flown in NZ although I believe they had a toe-cutter chappy wander through and fairly stuff things up in the eighties - just before he came here and did the same. Believe he escaped to Singa with the Feds in fast pursuit.
I guess we are The Best at letting people do that - must be an Ausy ******** gene or something????
Must go - gotta build a bunker.
Gnadenberg - you hit the nail on the head - that's the point - They do what THEY want to do. The stuff about military support is out of order though. They are ALWAYS there mate.
The real talent of these chaps eg "The Gang of Three", their humble servants and especially the latest comedic presentation by our foreign minister - They do so well at not bursting into laughter at what they are saying. And some people actually believe this stuff! Me - couldn't do it - no self control.
But - never flown in NZ although I believe they had a toe-cutter chappy wander through and fairly stuff things up in the eighties - just before he came here and did the same. Believe he escaped to Singa with the Feds in fast pursuit.
I guess we are The Best at letting people do that - must be an Ausy ******** gene or something????
Must go - gotta build a bunker.
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American system unsafe?
Flying since 1983, primary training in Port Macquarie, flown in New Zealand (1988) and in America since 1990......never been in a near-miss incident in the US.
I actually nearly hit a Macchi at Williamtown who was out of the firing range by more than 25 miles in 1989. So close that I could smell the kerosene in the cockpit of the piston single I was flying, (the airframe nearly filled the window).
There is one caveat to the airspace dilemma you are facing, that all VFR pilots comply with reporting procedures and transponders remain on at all times. Additionally, Part 25 turbine aircraft are kept on a descent profile that for the most part alleviates conflicts with VFR traffic. Many of you are correct in your assertations that the American Airspace, (which is actually the ICAO model, not American), does have it's limitations. I would really prefer to have all aircraft on a full reporting basis, whether VFR or not.
Can you imagine trying to get a word in edge-ways going into New York with that proposal though? Really not a practical solution.
A lot of you have been critical of the "American" system and that of your own. Remember, both are inherently different environments. There are less than 10,000 aircraft on the Australian register and the Yanks now have almost 250,000. The Canadians have almost 25,000.
Another interesting set of numbers. The American Airspace System represents more than 48.6% of world traffic, but has less than 7% of the world's accidents. It can't all be just "good luck".
I actually nearly hit a Macchi at Williamtown who was out of the firing range by more than 25 miles in 1989. So close that I could smell the kerosene in the cockpit of the piston single I was flying, (the airframe nearly filled the window).
There is one caveat to the airspace dilemma you are facing, that all VFR pilots comply with reporting procedures and transponders remain on at all times. Additionally, Part 25 turbine aircraft are kept on a descent profile that for the most part alleviates conflicts with VFR traffic. Many of you are correct in your assertations that the American Airspace, (which is actually the ICAO model, not American), does have it's limitations. I would really prefer to have all aircraft on a full reporting basis, whether VFR or not.
Can you imagine trying to get a word in edge-ways going into New York with that proposal though? Really not a practical solution.
A lot of you have been critical of the "American" system and that of your own. Remember, both are inherently different environments. There are less than 10,000 aircraft on the Australian register and the Yanks now have almost 250,000. The Canadians have almost 25,000.
Another interesting set of numbers. The American Airspace System represents more than 48.6% of world traffic, but has less than 7% of the world's accidents. It can't all be just "good luck".
Last edited by Chris Higgins; 7th Dec 2003 at 01:59.
I wonder how many of those people who are opposed to the US model as a basis for an Oz system have ever flown there? Or anywhere else apart from Oz? How much of oppositional argument is based on local prejudice? There was a similar situation in the early '90s with the last great system change.
Similarly, how many of those for NAS have experience elsewhere, and under what system?
I realise that differences have been raised between NAS & US. How significant are those differences? Many people comment about lack of radar in Oz. Not all of the US has radar available although most places do. In terms of trafic mix & density ie comparing like with like, how much does the application of NAS in Oz differ from the US?
I have Oz, UK & US ATPLs. I vastly prefer the US system over anything I've seen so far - including Oz of up to 20 years ago. I'm not entirely sure, but I think I'd rather Oz contracted out it's need to the FAA & ditch DoA/DoT/DoTaC/CAA/CASA/Air Services.
Similarly, how many of those for NAS have experience elsewhere, and under what system?
I realise that differences have been raised between NAS & US. How significant are those differences? Many people comment about lack of radar in Oz. Not all of the US has radar available although most places do. In terms of trafic mix & density ie comparing like with like, how much does the application of NAS in Oz differ from the US?
I have Oz, UK & US ATPLs. I vastly prefer the US system over anything I've seen so far - including Oz of up to 20 years ago. I'm not entirely sure, but I think I'd rather Oz contracted out it's need to the FAA & ditch DoA/DoT/DoTaC/CAA/CASA/Air Services.
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Gnad,
Remember well that one of our Labour PM's brought the troops home during WWII.
Where were we when the times got tough.
The K1w1's stepped up to the plate when required after the japs decided to join in & were up to their necks in the stouch.
We may not like them but they don't step backwards when their mate needs a hand in a fight.
Remember well that one of our Labour PM's brought the troops home during WWII.
Where were we when the times got tough.
The K1w1's stepped up to the plate when required after the japs decided to join in & were up to their necks in the stouch.
We may not like them but they don't step backwards when their mate needs a hand in a fight.
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GNADENBURG - "Isolationists in the South Pacific. Piss poor help in a regional security role too.
Never in their history have they faced a national challenge and gone out on a limb"
I'm not sure what Aussies get taught in history class these days, but you need to check out NZ's ratio of troops to population in WW1 and 2 !!
Of course facts can be disturbing to some ........
Never in their history have they faced a national challenge and gone out on a limb"
I'm not sure what Aussies get taught in history class these days, but you need to check out NZ's ratio of troops to population in WW1 and 2 !!
Of course facts can be disturbing to some ........