Nas End State!!!end It Now!!
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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I am going to spell this out one more time for you 2b1, some would say I am thrashing a dead horse and I probably am. I dont think the moronority who are behind these changes will ever see reason.
There is not one penny to be saved throught the implementation of these ill conceived changes, not one!!
I have been watching ASA and the rest of the NAS bandwagon spend money like water for the past 12 months. Junkets to the US, massive "consultancy" fees, huge travel budget as the tribe of career minded individuals willing to dirty their hands with this debacle traipse around the country. The bills for training the ATCs alone would run to millions, all this cost must ultimately be passed to industry. WHAT ARE WE GETTING IN RETURN?????
A few owners of high performance machinery may have access to a couple of thousand extra feet of airspace without having to bother with contacting ATC.
Whilst it is true that before every change, no matter how positive, there have been naysayers. It is equally true that before every momentous folly those who urged caution have been branded as recalcitrants and doom merchants by the architects of the impending disaster.
Will the sky rain aluminium tomorrow? probably not. But the likelihood of an accident will be higher, Only the willfully ignorant can deny that. The question is if we are to accept increased risk, shouldnt we get something in return?
Are you really stupid enough to think that anything in this will have the slightest impact on the GA industry? If so you are even more foolish than your posts would indicate.
There is not one penny to be saved throught the implementation of these ill conceived changes, not one!!
I have been watching ASA and the rest of the NAS bandwagon spend money like water for the past 12 months. Junkets to the US, massive "consultancy" fees, huge travel budget as the tribe of career minded individuals willing to dirty their hands with this debacle traipse around the country. The bills for training the ATCs alone would run to millions, all this cost must ultimately be passed to industry. WHAT ARE WE GETTING IN RETURN?????
A few owners of high performance machinery may have access to a couple of thousand extra feet of airspace without having to bother with contacting ATC.
Whilst it is true that before every change, no matter how positive, there have been naysayers. It is equally true that before every momentous folly those who urged caution have been branded as recalcitrants and doom merchants by the architects of the impending disaster.
Will the sky rain aluminium tomorrow? probably not. But the likelihood of an accident will be higher, Only the willfully ignorant can deny that. The question is if we are to accept increased risk, shouldnt we get something in return?
Are you really stupid enough to think that anything in this will have the slightest impact on the GA industry? If so you are even more foolish than your posts would indicate.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
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What's with posting the same post again?
2b1ask1
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I hear stories all the time about America having greater radar coverage than us.
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Do you deny this fact? If not, do you not see that trying to implant a system which uses extensive radar coverage into a place with minimal coverage, could be dangerous, and at the very least warrant some investigation? If the aviation world is different in the u.s., why is it appropriate to assume that what works there will work here?
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remember when mandatory position reporting was stopped
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Yeah I do. It was much more pleasurable being a VFR pilot back then. You had the option of receiving services. Maybe that is one reason GA is in the state it's in. (Not to mention is was a lot cheaper to fly back when the govt didn't consider aviation a revenue source).
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but they have now moved on and get on with it so should we.
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Got on with what? Luckily aus is not renowned for it's convergent thinkers, although that seems to be changing. Just shut up and meekly do as your told, right?
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transponder is switched to alt during run ups and will be amended on the check lists. Now is that not reasonable
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Sure, as long as it's actually done. Putting something on a checklist doesn't mean it will be. If the transponder is U/S, how would the pilot know? Doing run-ups and pre-flight checks is considered worthwhile in the aviation community, because your life depends on the equipment. Under NAS, your life may very well depend on that transponder. What do you propose I do about that?
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The fact that most PPL pilots out there realise that large aircraft travel faster can have a heavier workload and find it harder to see escapes most of your pea brains.
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So what exactly can the clever PPL do about that large, fast travelling aircraft with the busy crew who haven't seen him as it heads towards him . A slow plane has little hope of avoiding a fast one. I know- he gets on the appropriate frequency!! Where's that ERSA?
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I now instruct and do BFR's etc the fact that most VFR pilots do not like to fly above cloud let alone descent through a small hole
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Lot's of pilots I know fly through cloud on BFRs
Plus, you don't need most pilots doing it. One is enough.
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We are a belt and braces country sometimes we only need a belt.
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Yeah, and NAS takes away our belt, and our pants.
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Take a pill or take up golf if you really cant see ways to make this work then I am afraid aviation perhaps is not your field.
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People who just accept whatever lies the govt tell them, or powerful people who ride roughshod over accepted practices using dirty politics in order to get their own way, maybe aviation isn't their field?
(Cut and post from the other NAS thread- mods feel free to delete whichever you see fit )
quote:
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I hear stories all the time about America having greater radar coverage than us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you deny this fact? If not, do you not see that trying to implant a system which uses extensive radar coverage into a place with minimal coverage, could be dangerous, and at the very least warrant some investigation? If the aviation world is different in the u.s., why is it appropriate to assume that what works there will work here?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
remember when mandatory position reporting was stopped
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I do. It was much more pleasurable being a VFR pilot back then. You had the option of receiving services. Maybe that is one reason GA is in the state it's in. (Not to mention is was a lot cheaper to fly back when the govt didn't consider aviation a revenue source).
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
but they have now moved on and get on with it so should we.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Got on with what? Luckily aus is not renowned for it's convergent thinkers, although that seems to be changing. Just shut up and meekly do as your told, right?
quote:
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transponder is switched to alt during run ups and will be amended on the check lists. Now is that not reasonable
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure, as long as it's actually done. Putting something on a checklist doesn't mean it will be. If the transponder is U/S, how would the pilot know? Doing run-ups and pre-flight checks is considered worthwhile in the aviation community, because your life depends on the equipment. Under NAS, your life may very well depend on that transponder. What do you propose I do about that?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact that most PPL pilots out there realise that large aircraft travel faster can have a heavier workload and find it harder to see escapes most of your pea brains.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what exactly can the clever PPL do about that large, fast travelling aircraft with the busy crew who haven't seen him as it heads towards him . A slow plane has little hope of avoiding a fast one. I know- he gets on the appropriate frequency!! Where's that ERSA?
quote:
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I now instruct and do BFR's etc the fact that most VFR pilots do not like to fly above cloud let alone descent through a small hole
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Lot's of pilots I know fly through cloud on BFRs
Plus, you don't need most pilots doing it. One is enough.quote:
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We are a belt and braces country sometimes we only need a belt.
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Yeah, and NAS takes away our belt, and our pants.
quote:
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Take a pill or take up golf if you really cant see ways to make this work then I am afraid aviation perhaps is not your field.
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People who just accept whatever lies the govt tell them, or powerful people who ride roughshod over accepted practices using dirty politics in order to get their own way, maybe aviation isn't their field?
(Cut and post from the other NAS thread- mods feel free to delete whichever you see fit )
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Not only does 2b1ask1 post the same post twice on two different threads, the post in the first place adresses none of the safety concerns the proffesionals on here have. He says most do this and usually pilots do that. He seems to miss the point that in this game most and usually don't cut the mustard. As a controller, if I said "well today I mostly separated my jets, all except for that midair that killed 300 people, ah well not a bad days work". As Ferris said it only takes one VFR to pop thru that cloud unnanounced, and to all those who go on about how "the mathematical chance of a midair in Australia is the square root of Dick Smiths IQ multiplied by the width of Mike Smiths Mouth to the power of the average AOPA members inheritance from Daddy", it only takes one midair to be one too many.
