Life At The Qantas Trough
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Hmm, the Fin review reported several days ago that Godfrey reportedly owns most of the 4% of VB shares that are held by staff. With the company valued at up to $2 billion that makes for a very nice windfall - guess he'll be moving up the BRW list of wealthy under 40's. Of course any movement downwards in the share price after the float will impact so I don't think he'll be handing out bottles of Grange for xmas to those on the coal face !
The issue of stock options for CEO and board members has rather been done to death over the last 12 months worldwide so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. Renumeration packages in Oz for these guys are still way behind the Europeans and USA. It's life.
The issue of stock options for CEO and board members has rather been done to death over the last 12 months worldwide so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. Renumeration packages in Oz for these guys are still way behind the Europeans and USA. It's life.
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I am disappointed that this thread has developed into a Qantas versus Virgin Blue pay debate as it is just not poissible to reasonably compare gorillas with monkeys.We should focus our minds on the sheer greed and rapaciousness of those at the top of Qantas and Australian Ailrines and compare that with the messages of reastraint, doom and gloom that these people seem to be always preaching and forcing on the backbone of their comapnies. Clearly, low cost and restraint do not apply to anyone at the top trough at the Rat and its off-spring rodent.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
My personal view of of the situation, Johnny, is that VB employees were well aware of what the conditions of employment were, when they applied for the available positions.
VB pilots have seen their incomes increased, with further increases agreed to, and scheduled for next year.
I understand there was a bonus paid out last year as well.
On the other hand, QF employees also knew their terms of employment - and have no doubt structured their mortgages around the same. If Herr Dixon goes ahead with his plans to replace full-time employment with casual - or worse termination of employment - the effect on many families will be enormous.
There has to be some responsibility on the part of employers to their employees.
IMO, Dixon is being totally IRRESPONSIBLE in accepting an enormous salary for himself, whilst insisting on reducing the meagre wages of the mignons, on the grounds that QF can't afford them.
I suggest that if QANTAS executives are truly convinced that shaving off a few dollars off salaries here and there will make the difference between QF surviving or not, they should take a good hard look at their OWN incomes, and reduce them by several hundred thousand dollars.
Surely a cap of around $500K for the GD's is as much as they are worth.
Dixon & Co are making their money by TAKING AWAY from people.
Godfrey, Huttner, etc are making their money by selling/capitalising (on) IDEAS - not PEOPLE!
VB pilots have seen their incomes increased, with further increases agreed to, and scheduled for next year.
I understand there was a bonus paid out last year as well.
On the other hand, QF employees also knew their terms of employment - and have no doubt structured their mortgages around the same. If Herr Dixon goes ahead with his plans to replace full-time employment with casual - or worse termination of employment - the effect on many families will be enormous.
There has to be some responsibility on the part of employers to their employees.
IMO, Dixon is being totally IRRESPONSIBLE in accepting an enormous salary for himself, whilst insisting on reducing the meagre wages of the mignons, on the grounds that QF can't afford them.
I suggest that if QANTAS executives are truly convinced that shaving off a few dollars off salaries here and there will make the difference between QF surviving or not, they should take a good hard look at their OWN incomes, and reduce them by several hundred thousand dollars.
Surely a cap of around $500K for the GD's is as much as they are worth.
Dixon & Co are making their money by TAKING AWAY from people.
Godfrey, Huttner, etc are making their money by selling/capitalising (on) IDEAS - not PEOPLE!
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Kap, its great to criticise airline managers of all descriptions as the "water lilies of aviation" and make several heavy swipes at Geoff Dixon. After all, you can probably put up what resembles a sound argument that many would agree with. But how can you post with a straight face that it applies to everyone but VB? You must be extracting the piss. If so well done, you've had me going! If CEOs are worthless and contribute so little to companies that no one would notice their absence then surely this applies equally to Brett Godfrey and Geoff Dixon?
I know at least one location where those handling VB bags have had at least two pay cuts in 18 months. Is this cause to spout emotive rubbish about VB selling/capitalising on people and not ideas? No, but it demonstrates that under the marketing hype there is a hard headed business acumen that is actually responsible for their success.
Good on them for being successful. Good on BG for doing an excellent job as CEO. But lets not delude ourselves that VB's personal faeces aren't odorific.
I know at least one location where those handling VB bags have had at least two pay cuts in 18 months. Is this cause to spout emotive rubbish about VB selling/capitalising on people and not ideas? No, but it demonstrates that under the marketing hype there is a hard headed business acumen that is actually responsible for their success.
Good on them for being successful. Good on BG for doing an excellent job as CEO. But lets not delude ourselves that VB's personal faeces aren't odorific.
Last edited by bitter balance; 18th Sep 2003 at 22:40.
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Meanwhile, and 'back at the ranch'- Dixon relaxes by the seaside in his luxury apartment on the Esplenade at Balmoral Beach!
By the way, - who does own that black sports Merc with the rego - VH-7770 (black plates) that was parked out the front?
Anyone you know?
BO!
By the way, - who does own that black sports Merc with the rego - VH-7770 (black plates) that was parked out the front?
Anyone you know?
BO!
Out of interest - how many staff have been out & stayed on 'Virgin Blue island' - after all, that was the intent, right?
As Richard Branson said at the time “What makes Virgin so special is our people. This will be a wonderful retreat for them and it will also be a great way for our team to spend time together and to get to know each other outside of a work environment. It will be a lot of fun and I am looking forward to spending more time in Australia and sharing this delightful island with our wonderful team.”
Or perhaps what he meant was I think that this will be a fantastic bonus for certain members of my management team for managing to get our workers to thank us for employing them for next to nothing. Why pay a bonus & have the press all over me when I can get some more good 'PR spin' & show the general public yet again what a good bloke I am. Ha!
As Richard Branson said at the time “What makes Virgin so special is our people. This will be a wonderful retreat for them and it will also be a great way for our team to spend time together and to get to know each other outside of a work environment. It will be a lot of fun and I am looking forward to spending more time in Australia and sharing this delightful island with our wonderful team.”
Or perhaps what he meant was I think that this will be a fantastic bonus for certain members of my management team for managing to get our workers to thank us for employing them for next to nothing. Why pay a bonus & have the press all over me when I can get some more good 'PR spin' & show the general public yet again what a good bloke I am. Ha!
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And this from yesterdays Australian..
MARGIN CALL MICHAEL WEST
AUSTRALIAN 18/09/03
Worshippers of greed creed
If the season just past of company profit reports brought gratification, and the odd disappointment, present times herald envy and outrage.
For the season of annual reports is upon us. There will be revelations of greed and excess. Executive option schemes, extravagant salaries and bonus packages masked in clever guises - disguised, rhetoricised and buried in miniscule print.
The uninitiated are best advised to head directly for sections titled "Related Party Transactions" and "Executive Remuneration" or such.
You will find the good stuff there, and be suitably outraged.
Mind you, we have to concede that executives themselves cannot be entirely faulted for their excess. Who wouldn't take it if they could get it?
It is the boards that decide executive pay. Their decisions are, in turn, rubber stamped by remuneration consultants - a breed of bootlickers that has never been known to suggest that anyone (who pays them) is overpaid.
Then shareholders get the opportunity to vote on remuneration, once a year, at the annual general meeting.
It is a sad fact that Australia's big companies are mostly controlled by institutional shareholders who find themselves testicularly challenged when it comes to decrying executive excess.
There is a growing retinue of fundies - the likes of Peter Morgan at 452, John Sevior at Perpetual, the odd-bod at the AMP and perhaps less than a handful of others - who might express dissent on behalf of their policy holders.
But these lonely voices are seldom enough to alter the course of spiraling executive remuneration, Again, this year, the growth in pay to directors and executives will outstrip earnings growth.
Dining out on the Roo
A perusal of the Qantas annual report provides a very fine starting point for anyone who would care to be affronted.
Here is a company that enjoys unusual protection from competition via the taxpayer and the federal Government.
Yet last year the board lavished themselves with the dollars of their shareholders despite a share price that went nowhere and earnings per share that dived from 29c to 20c. Lower profits but higher pay.
CEO Geoff Dixon enjoyed a 12 per cent pay rise, with the imprimatur of the Qantas directors, to $1.64 million.
The PR angle was that Dixon sacrificed his performance bonus. But if you don a deerstalker and break out the magnifying glass and the spotlight you find $653,868 in baksheesh from a "long-term incentive share plan".
Chairman Margaret Jackson helped herself to a 14 per cent increase to $372,735. The salaries of Peter Gregg (up 33 per cent plus $294,493 in incentives), John Borghetti (up 31 per cent) and Denis Adams (up 25 percent) - to name but a few - are completely out of sync with the fortunes of shareholders.
Qantas PR will tell you it was a tough year. SARS, chaos in the international aviation industry and so forth. The poor old red roo might not even survive!
The reality is that wealth is a zero sum game. You either get richer, or poorer. Shareholders got poorer, directors and executives got richer.
And the latter are the stewards of somebody else's money. They are no Gerry Harvey or Kerry Packer. Their own capital is not at risk.
Meanwhile, staff - at least those who kept their jobs - managed a 1.5 percent rise while watching on as commodious new offices were constructed for their corporate overlords and as the chorus of customer complaints grew ever more deafening.
And there is always something more. The small matter of "Post-Retirement Benefits" for executives and executive directors of $1.76 million. That is a lot of free flights. Why? Can't these people afford to fly with, perhaps, a price discount for years of service?
It gets worse. Non-execs are also in on the scheme to the tune of $385,650.
Qantas frequent fliers, whose angry mail we often receive here, are about to be stiffed to the tune of 40 per cent in January. No doubt the chosen few at the top of Qantas will rank ahead of the company's most loyal customers when it comes to getting a seat.
Yet Qantas is only one leading corporate from which we can expect higher executive pay for lower bottom-line performance. There are many more to come. One can only hope that the Government's CLERP 9 proposals will give shareholders a better say in remunerating their employees directors and executives.
Let's face it, $300,000 buys you a nice house in a nice suburb and gets the kids private schooling. Any more ought to hinge on performance.
[email protected]
MARGIN CALL MICHAEL WEST
AUSTRALIAN 18/09/03
Worshippers of greed creed
If the season just past of company profit reports brought gratification, and the odd disappointment, present times herald envy and outrage.
For the season of annual reports is upon us. There will be revelations of greed and excess. Executive option schemes, extravagant salaries and bonus packages masked in clever guises - disguised, rhetoricised and buried in miniscule print.
The uninitiated are best advised to head directly for sections titled "Related Party Transactions" and "Executive Remuneration" or such.
You will find the good stuff there, and be suitably outraged.
Mind you, we have to concede that executives themselves cannot be entirely faulted for their excess. Who wouldn't take it if they could get it?
It is the boards that decide executive pay. Their decisions are, in turn, rubber stamped by remuneration consultants - a breed of bootlickers that has never been known to suggest that anyone (who pays them) is overpaid.
Then shareholders get the opportunity to vote on remuneration, once a year, at the annual general meeting.
It is a sad fact that Australia's big companies are mostly controlled by institutional shareholders who find themselves testicularly challenged when it comes to decrying executive excess.
There is a growing retinue of fundies - the likes of Peter Morgan at 452, John Sevior at Perpetual, the odd-bod at the AMP and perhaps less than a handful of others - who might express dissent on behalf of their policy holders.
But these lonely voices are seldom enough to alter the course of spiraling executive remuneration, Again, this year, the growth in pay to directors and executives will outstrip earnings growth.
Dining out on the Roo
A perusal of the Qantas annual report provides a very fine starting point for anyone who would care to be affronted.
Here is a company that enjoys unusual protection from competition via the taxpayer and the federal Government.
Yet last year the board lavished themselves with the dollars of their shareholders despite a share price that went nowhere and earnings per share that dived from 29c to 20c. Lower profits but higher pay.
CEO Geoff Dixon enjoyed a 12 per cent pay rise, with the imprimatur of the Qantas directors, to $1.64 million.
The PR angle was that Dixon sacrificed his performance bonus. But if you don a deerstalker and break out the magnifying glass and the spotlight you find $653,868 in baksheesh from a "long-term incentive share plan".
Chairman Margaret Jackson helped herself to a 14 per cent increase to $372,735. The salaries of Peter Gregg (up 33 per cent plus $294,493 in incentives), John Borghetti (up 31 per cent) and Denis Adams (up 25 percent) - to name but a few - are completely out of sync with the fortunes of shareholders.
Qantas PR will tell you it was a tough year. SARS, chaos in the international aviation industry and so forth. The poor old red roo might not even survive!
The reality is that wealth is a zero sum game. You either get richer, or poorer. Shareholders got poorer, directors and executives got richer.
And the latter are the stewards of somebody else's money. They are no Gerry Harvey or Kerry Packer. Their own capital is not at risk.
Meanwhile, staff - at least those who kept their jobs - managed a 1.5 percent rise while watching on as commodious new offices were constructed for their corporate overlords and as the chorus of customer complaints grew ever more deafening.
And there is always something more. The small matter of "Post-Retirement Benefits" for executives and executive directors of $1.76 million. That is a lot of free flights. Why? Can't these people afford to fly with, perhaps, a price discount for years of service?
It gets worse. Non-execs are also in on the scheme to the tune of $385,650.
Qantas frequent fliers, whose angry mail we often receive here, are about to be stiffed to the tune of 40 per cent in January. No doubt the chosen few at the top of Qantas will rank ahead of the company's most loyal customers when it comes to getting a seat.
Yet Qantas is only one leading corporate from which we can expect higher executive pay for lower bottom-line performance. There are many more to come. One can only hope that the Government's CLERP 9 proposals will give shareholders a better say in remunerating their employees directors and executives.
Let's face it, $300,000 buys you a nice house in a nice suburb and gets the kids private schooling. Any more ought to hinge on performance.
[email protected]
If QF pilots can keep anywhere near their current conditions, Dixon a good bloke!
QF pilots may well be about to get a taste of John Anderson and a political shafting. NZ pilots flying domestically to make QF wages more competitive aswell as open skies agreements which will see QF profitable routes cherry picked. Not to mention the assault from Godfrey who is lowering conditions further with Pacific Blue.
Something will give. Air NZ or QF wages and conditionns?
I don't know why you can't see a forest through the trees Kapt M. Maybe you should have a beer with Virgin Blue rank and file and not the upper echelon elite-who may well get "evil" bonuses for shafting their fellow pilots.
Again, if QF pilots keep a semblance of their conditions, Dixon is all right!
QF pilots may well be about to get a taste of John Anderson and a political shafting. NZ pilots flying domestically to make QF wages more competitive aswell as open skies agreements which will see QF profitable routes cherry picked. Not to mention the assault from Godfrey who is lowering conditions further with Pacific Blue.
Something will give. Air NZ or QF wages and conditionns?
I don't know why you can't see a forest through the trees Kapt M. Maybe you should have a beer with Virgin Blue rank and file and not the upper echelon elite-who may well get "evil" bonuses for shafting their fellow pilots.
Again, if QF pilots keep a semblance of their conditions, Dixon is all right!
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So whats new here? Hasn't it always been the case that certain people have clawed thier way to the top of organisations and managed to secure huge incomes. So what! Nice work if you can get it.
Yes it's true that pilots salaries and conditions are continually being degraded but to some extent we are probably partly to blame. As a group we have never got it together and really come up with any countermeasures to arrest the continual decline. Instead, all we do is fight amoungst ourselves and look in other peoples back yards, ie Dixon and co, and whinge.
Yes it's true that pilots salaries and conditions are continually being degraded but to some extent we are probably partly to blame. As a group we have never got it together and really come up with any countermeasures to arrest the continual decline. Instead, all we do is fight amoungst ourselves and look in other peoples back yards, ie Dixon and co, and whinge.
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Hey Kap.
Do you see why people think you are hypocritical when you defend VB’s pay? It is considerably less than what you fought the war over. For reasons of consistency, shouldn’t you be advocating a massive pay rise for the boys in Brisvegas? The girls too.
Before I get attacked for my comments about VB pay – I would happily do the job but alas, I don’t have the correct endorsement lah. Dash 8. Or Saab.
Do you see why people think you are hypocritical when you defend VB’s pay? It is considerably less than what you fought the war over. For reasons of consistency, shouldn’t you be advocating a massive pay rise for the boys in Brisvegas? The girls too.
Before I get attacked for my comments about VB pay – I would happily do the job but alas, I don’t have the correct endorsement lah. Dash 8. Or Saab.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Feric, there is nothing MORE in the world that I (along with everyone else) would love to see than the VB staff getting HUGE salary increases. However they are where they are for the time being, and I'm sure that those within Virgin Blue will be working to improve their lot.
The issue at hand, though, is that of EXCESSIVE salaries and BONUSES paid out to the QANTAS upper level management - obviously an issue that is not limited only to them in light of the resignation of the Chairman of the NYSE - Dick Grasso - following a public outcry over his excessive pay package.
The article written by Mr Margin, as posted by bonvol adequately sums up a lot of my feelings as well. Again however, the biggest problem I have with the QF execs' remuneration, is that they see absolutely nothing untoward in accepting MILLION DOLLAR PLUS pay packets for themselves which have been gained by TAKING AWAY from people who are ill able to afford it.
It seems very UN-Australian, imo.
The issue at hand, though, is that of EXCESSIVE salaries and BONUSES paid out to the QANTAS upper level management - obviously an issue that is not limited only to them in light of the resignation of the Chairman of the NYSE - Dick Grasso - following a public outcry over his excessive pay package.
The article written by Mr Margin, as posted by bonvol adequately sums up a lot of my feelings as well. Again however, the biggest problem I have with the QF execs' remuneration, is that they see absolutely nothing untoward in accepting MILLION DOLLAR PLUS pay packets for themselves which have been gained by TAKING AWAY from people who are ill able to afford it.
It seems very UN-Australian, imo.
VB employees were well aware of what the conditions of employment were, when they applied for the available positions.
You therefore have no problem with the level of pay at Pacific Blue, Jet Connects or Skynet Asia as the same applies. Correct?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
And as you have no problem with Scab Net Asia salaries, Wiz, then you would be in concurrence with the VB salaries as well no doubt.
This discussion is about "Life At The QANTAS Trough" - and NOT pilots' salaries. There are other threads running if you want to raise those issues there.
You really do find it difficult to stay focused, don't you Wiz!
This discussion is about "Life At The QANTAS Trough" - and NOT pilots' salaries. There are other threads running if you want to raise those issues there.
You really do find it difficult to stay focused, don't you Wiz!
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To enlighten those that are brainwashed, QF Pilot salaries are not high, they are Sh*t compared to every alliance partner and compared to QF's competition. As for VB salaries, they dont even compare to unskilled labour. Dont set that as a benchmark just because thats what you are earning. An F/O in QF on a 767 or 747 earning $120.000/yr dosent even come close to my brother in laws income as a brickey. He paid $8000 in tax last year whilst I paid $40,000. He thinks I am an idiot. So if Im an idiot at QF, what are the guys at VB who regard my salary as high?? How much lower can you go below idiot???
Queenie,
You are talking about two different things
On a pre tax basis even VB pilots are well paid in comparison to the community.
Your brickie brother in law has a higher AFTER tax income because he pays less tax.
He probably qualifies for all sorts of government payments - family benefit part A, health care card etc because of his "low" taxable income.
You should be direct your anger at the government, who has set up the 2nd highest taxing country in the world after Sweden (?).
With your tax bill of 40 grand (and mine) - you paid more tax than most people earn in gross salary each year - and they bring up a couple of kids and pay off a mortgage.
Have a look at what Doctors earn, and what they had to do to earn that much, and what they have to pay out to earn that much and then tell me that VB pilots get paid "idiot" levels. Don't forget that they have to pay their own super, as well as pay someone else to run their practice when they are on leave. Factor all that in, and then add our salaries, loss of licence payments, super etc together and then do a side by side comparison - you will see that we are not that badly off - except they have more deductions because they run a business.
By all means strive for better conditions, but do not lose sight of reality and the reality is that any pilot flying for VB or QF is getting paid well for what they do.GA on the other hand is crap!
You can't compare Australian salaries to foreign salaries because the cost of living isn't comparable - on the McDonalds index QF guys are NOT getting significantly less than their alliance partners.
You are talking about two different things
On a pre tax basis even VB pilots are well paid in comparison to the community.
Your brickie brother in law has a higher AFTER tax income because he pays less tax.
He probably qualifies for all sorts of government payments - family benefit part A, health care card etc because of his "low" taxable income.
You should be direct your anger at the government, who has set up the 2nd highest taxing country in the world after Sweden (?).
With your tax bill of 40 grand (and mine) - you paid more tax than most people earn in gross salary each year - and they bring up a couple of kids and pay off a mortgage.
Have a look at what Doctors earn, and what they had to do to earn that much, and what they have to pay out to earn that much and then tell me that VB pilots get paid "idiot" levels. Don't forget that they have to pay their own super, as well as pay someone else to run their practice when they are on leave. Factor all that in, and then add our salaries, loss of licence payments, super etc together and then do a side by side comparison - you will see that we are not that badly off - except they have more deductions because they run a business.
By all means strive for better conditions, but do not lose sight of reality and the reality is that any pilot flying for VB or QF is getting paid well for what they do.GA on the other hand is crap!
You can't compare Australian salaries to foreign salaries because the cost of living isn't comparable - on the McDonalds index QF guys are NOT getting significantly less than their alliance partners.
rtforu - the best few sentences I've read for a long while...."Yes it's true that pilots salaries and conditions are continually being degraded but to some extent we are probably partly to blame. As a group we have never got it together and really come up with any countermeasures to arrest the continual decline. Instead, all we do is fight amoungst ourselves and look in other peoples back yards, ie Dixon and co, and whinge". Well said.
I couldn't agree more. Whether those not involved agree or not, this catalyst for this rot was 1989 and sadly it has only got worse since. Now we have VB pilots 'undermining' QF pilots, disenfranchised GA pilots bitter at lack of career advancement potential, QF pilots undermining CX colleagues and the tax-breaks they previously achieved and amateurs with political clout determining Aviation policy in Canberra. We sit passively by and the best we can do to arrest this decline in snipe at each other like little girls on PPruNe.
I watch these pages where pilots degrade other pilots and I hang my head in sadness. A once proud profession is (by it's own doing) destroying itself.
As much as I hate to admit it, I realistically think there is little chance of Professional aircrew in this country uniting as a cohesive group with one determined and respected industrial representative.
Instead of whinging about Dixon (which I am indeed guilty of too because he is a hypocrite) get in there, get cohesive as an industrial group and do something about it.
Get the AFAP and the AIPA back together, get some unity and cohesiveness, stop bitching and do something concrete to improve your lot. Volunteer your time and effort to regroup and rebuilt this shattered industry. If you as a National Jet Captain or 767 F/O are struggling financially now, how do you think your lot will improve if you don't fight to improve it?
It certainly won't happen by moaning on P bloody PRunNe!
And what are the chances of my idealistic concept being realised? I am sure responses on this and other threads will amply demonstrate why we are where we are
.
==============================================
............oh and Dehavillanddriver, I'm sorry but from my fairly extensive research on exactly this issue may I humbly suggest your post is miles off course there!
If you really want an indication of how poorly paid Aussie pilots are, try to get a peek a report published annually by a Middle-Eastern airline. This report graphs global airlines against each other and is completely adjusted for cost of living and after-tax income in that country, so a fair comparison can be made.
The report amply demonstrates Qantas pilots are paid completely C RAP with a capital C, essentially the cheap white trash of the airline world and the Virgin Blue salaries are simply a joke.
There should never be the mentality that "Oh my mate does X for a job and only gets paid Y so I should be happy I guess". Instead we should look at what our colleagues elsewhere earn and aim to at least parallel that.
Globally we have a very long way to go to catch up and to do that we must get cohesive first.
But I suspect that ain't going to happen.
I couldn't agree more. Whether those not involved agree or not, this catalyst for this rot was 1989 and sadly it has only got worse since. Now we have VB pilots 'undermining' QF pilots, disenfranchised GA pilots bitter at lack of career advancement potential, QF pilots undermining CX colleagues and the tax-breaks they previously achieved and amateurs with political clout determining Aviation policy in Canberra. We sit passively by and the best we can do to arrest this decline in snipe at each other like little girls on PPruNe.
I watch these pages where pilots degrade other pilots and I hang my head in sadness. A once proud profession is (by it's own doing) destroying itself.
As much as I hate to admit it, I realistically think there is little chance of Professional aircrew in this country uniting as a cohesive group with one determined and respected industrial representative.
Instead of whinging about Dixon (which I am indeed guilty of too because he is a hypocrite) get in there, get cohesive as an industrial group and do something about it.
Get the AFAP and the AIPA back together, get some unity and cohesiveness, stop bitching and do something concrete to improve your lot. Volunteer your time and effort to regroup and rebuilt this shattered industry. If you as a National Jet Captain or 767 F/O are struggling financially now, how do you think your lot will improve if you don't fight to improve it?
It certainly won't happen by moaning on P bloody PRunNe!
And what are the chances of my idealistic concept being realised? I am sure responses on this and other threads will amply demonstrate why we are where we are
.==============================================
............oh and Dehavillanddriver, I'm sorry but from my fairly extensive research on exactly this issue may I humbly suggest your post is miles off course there!
If you really want an indication of how poorly paid Aussie pilots are, try to get a peek a report published annually by a Middle-Eastern airline. This report graphs global airlines against each other and is completely adjusted for cost of living and after-tax income in that country, so a fair comparison can be made.
The report amply demonstrates Qantas pilots are paid completely C RAP with a capital C, essentially the cheap white trash of the airline world and the Virgin Blue salaries are simply a joke.
There should never be the mentality that "Oh my mate does X for a job and only gets paid Y so I should be happy I guess". Instead we should look at what our colleagues elsewhere earn and aim to at least parallel that.
Globally we have a very long way to go to catch up and to do that we must get cohesive first.
But I suspect that ain't going to happen.
Last edited by Al E. Vator; 23rd Sep 2003 at 10:55.
Al E. Vator - why don't you enlighten us all with some facts & figures from this wondrous book of yours - back your argument up with some hard facts perhaps...?