a little rumour
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E.P,
Born friday the 13th, Feb, 1981 which makes me..........???
all I have heard is that the 146 fleet are leaving the east coast and the 717's are replacing them...
Hoss,
I dont know about the Dashes??? but it would nt surprise me if they do replace the 146's.
Born friday the 13th, Feb, 1981 which makes me..........???
all I have heard is that the 146 fleet are leaving the east coast and the 717's are replacing them...
Hoss,
I dont know about the Dashes??? but it would nt surprise me if they do replace the 146's.
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Never let the truth get in the way of a good yarn.
MK-BN, 57 min. in a 717, 65 min. in a 146, in nil wind. ( even if you used 350KTAS for the 146 and 500 for the 717, the difference is still only 23 minutes )
From memory, wind effects all A/C the same on a given route at a given altitude.
350KIAS, not below 10000' these days I'm afraid, so thats approx. 30 miles when inbound.
Having travelled in both A/C, I would choose the 146, in case I got stuck in the rear of the 71 without earplugs.
Still, this thread is like most of PPRUNE, good for a laugh.
MK-BN, 57 min. in a 717, 65 min. in a 146, in nil wind. ( even if you used 350KTAS for the 146 and 500 for the 717, the difference is still only 23 minutes )
From memory, wind effects all A/C the same on a given route at a given altitude.
350KIAS, not below 10000' these days I'm afraid, so thats approx. 30 miles when inbound.
Having travelled in both A/C, I would choose the 146, in case I got stuck in the rear of the 71 without earplugs.
Still, this thread is like most of PPRUNE, good for a laugh.
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Don't forget about ceiling limits for the 146 is a whole lot less than the 717. so while the 146 is plodding along at FL260 in a 100kt headwind. the 717 might be enjoying a 50 kt tailwind at FL360.
oh yeah, dont forget your earplugs down the back!!!
oh yeah, dont forget your earplugs down the back!!!
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As someone who sits down the back of a 717 on a daily basis it isn't that bad in the last two rows (it's worse where the rear jumpseats are!). And apart from takeoff and reverese thrust on landing it is comparable to sitting over the wing on a 762. Also I would say it is quiter on takeoff in the last row on a 717 that the last row of a 733. Seriously. Most last row pax that ask to move before takeoff say don't worry after takeoff as they realise it isn't bad at all. There is still the precious ones that need a window... 
Some aircraft are worse than others though. Flew on VQI the other night and it was VERY quiet. IMP would have to be the worst. (Read still bareable!)
cunninglinguist...
A 20 minute time saving on a 1-1.5 hour sector is heaps! Even an 8 minute saving is considerable, in my opinion. As someone who deals with the punters they do notice.
Capt. Claret...
I agree totally.
Some aircraft are worse than others though. Flew on VQI the other night and it was VERY quiet. IMP would have to be the worst. (Read still bareable!)
cunninglinguist...
A 20 minute time saving on a 1-1.5 hour sector is heaps! Even an 8 minute saving is considerable, in my opinion. As someone who deals with the punters they do notice.
Capt. Claret...
I agree totally.
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Kym an interesting analogy. Can you tell me where in Oz you have experienced a 100 knot headwind at FL260 and on the same track get a 50 knot tailwind at FL360? We regularly see wind changes during climb and descent but nothing of the magnitude you mention. I have never seen that over the past 17 years across quite a few countries (including Oz) so look forward to your answer on that one.
The 146 ceiling is 31,000ft, what is the ceiling of the 717?
The 146 ceiling is 31,000ft, what is the ceiling of the 717?
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...just shows, "junior" (kym) hasn't done his time and experience... it's all just hot air and sweet dreams.
I'm with you E.P.!
Wake up and smell the coffee, Kym
I'm with you E.P.!
Wake up and smell the coffee, Kym
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thanks for that sperm bank. Only did that sector about 250 times about 9 years ago, but from memory the wind factor was F A .
Ditzy, RTFQ, I said " even if there was 150KTAS difference, which there most certainly is not !
Yes, 8 minutes is a good saving, but then we have to get into lease costs etc. etc., which none of us really know. The whole point is, I seriously doubt that people are over the moon with the " huge " time saving.
Ditzy, RTFQ, I said " even if there was 150KTAS difference, which there most certainly is not !
Yes, 8 minutes is a good saving, but then we have to get into lease costs etc. etc., which none of us really know. The whole point is, I seriously doubt that people are over the moon with the " huge " time saving.
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Obviously this new-fangled idea of getting pilots to do degrees and diplomas to make them more commercially and organisationally savvy has fallen well short of that grand ideal!
Pilots are still pilots, and although some think they have a grasp of high finance and can solve all of Dixons/Strongs/Eddingtons/add executive name here/ difficulties, truth is that many would struggle running a corner shop.
Frinstance, anybody BOTHERED to go to the airservices page on enroute charges? Kym, me lad, ever pointed the mouse in that direction? Try comparing the enroute charges alone for a standard gross weight B717 against a 146-100 BNE-MKY. Just try it, my lad! Aha, one discovers that heavier MTOW aircraft get slugged more money by AsA every time they fly the route! Next, try looking up landing charges. Then look at leases. How about cost of spares and rotables, and a place to put them. Etc Etc.
Maybe the 717 is a better performer than a D8-400/146/F100 on a number of key routes. But any similarity between the outcomes of QF management actions v the predictions of tossers like young Kym will be purely coincidental, and about as reliable as investment decisions guided by Anastasia the Gypsy Mystic and her crystal ball (ref: Picture magazine classifieds, right after home girls).
Why do you insist on wasting perfectly good electrons by posting such drivel, kid?
Pilots are still pilots, and although some think they have a grasp of high finance and can solve all of Dixons/Strongs/Eddingtons/add executive name here/ difficulties, truth is that many would struggle running a corner shop.
Frinstance, anybody BOTHERED to go to the airservices page on enroute charges? Kym, me lad, ever pointed the mouse in that direction? Try comparing the enroute charges alone for a standard gross weight B717 against a 146-100 BNE-MKY. Just try it, my lad! Aha, one discovers that heavier MTOW aircraft get slugged more money by AsA every time they fly the route! Next, try looking up landing charges. Then look at leases. How about cost of spares and rotables, and a place to put them. Etc Etc.
Maybe the 717 is a better performer than a D8-400/146/F100 on a number of key routes. But any similarity between the outcomes of QF management actions v the predictions of tossers like young Kym will be purely coincidental, and about as reliable as investment decisions guided by Anastasia the Gypsy Mystic and her crystal ball (ref: Picture magazine classifieds, right after home girls).
Why do you insist on wasting perfectly good electrons by posting such drivel, kid?
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ITCZ...
I think you are trying to say that a 146-100 is cheaper to land than a 717? If that is what you are saying then is it still cheaper when you have to fly the 146-100 on the route 6-7 times to carry the same amount of people as a 717 3-4 times?
Anyway you are right about this topic!
cunninglinguist...
I was saying that pax do notice the shorter flight times. That's all. I am yet to see a celebration and parade on arrival! I was referring mainly to when the routes first changed to 717s.
About that wind stuff you were talking about (150KAS???). I don't know. I just do the coffee.
I think you are trying to say that a 146-100 is cheaper to land than a 717? If that is what you are saying then is it still cheaper when you have to fly the 146-100 on the route 6-7 times to carry the same amount of people as a 717 3-4 times?
Anyway you are right about this topic!
cunninglinguist...
I was saying that pax do notice the shorter flight times. That's all. I am yet to see a celebration and parade on arrival! I was referring mainly to when the routes first changed to 717s.
About that wind stuff you were talking about (150KAS???). I don't know. I just do the coffee.
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ditzy, no, not exactly. Your example is not comparing apples with apples?
If you give 76 folk to a 146-200 and fly them over a 300nm sector, and give a similar 76 folk to a HGW 717 and fly them over the same sector, you get a result that perhaps favours the 14, until a Dash 8-400 turns up to have a go.
If put a full pax load in each of the 146 and 717, I suspect it would be close, perhaps in the 717's favour
If you change the sector length, to 900nm, maybe the 717 wins
If you put alt requirements on the destination and a suitable is another hour away, maybe the 146 wins it back.
If you make the sector 600nm and all over open water, maybe the four engine airplane wins.
If a given route is, say, a 70 seat route 14 x a week as determined from travel stats and load forecasts, then which is cheaper? A 76 seat aircraft burning 1900 kg/hr, two 'contractor' tech and three cabin crew, lower per hour/per day lease, higher per hour maintenance, lower MTOW therefore lower enroute + movement charges, or a 90 seater burning less per hour, two plus three 'in the QF system now' crew, higher per hour/per day lease, lower per hour maintenance, higher MTOW and thus higher enroute + movement charges......
Or would we be better going 7x weekly in a hand-me-down 737-400, completely amortized, no J class? Would that suit the travel needs of the market segment?
Hell, I don't know!!!
I don't have all the data!
Thats why I think Kym-me-lads confident assertions and rantings are a complete waste of breath.
If you give 76 folk to a 146-200 and fly them over a 300nm sector, and give a similar 76 folk to a HGW 717 and fly them over the same sector, you get a result that perhaps favours the 14, until a Dash 8-400 turns up to have a go.
If put a full pax load in each of the 146 and 717, I suspect it would be close, perhaps in the 717's favour
If you change the sector length, to 900nm, maybe the 717 wins
If you put alt requirements on the destination and a suitable is another hour away, maybe the 146 wins it back.
If you make the sector 600nm and all over open water, maybe the four engine airplane wins.
If a given route is, say, a 70 seat route 14 x a week as determined from travel stats and load forecasts, then which is cheaper? A 76 seat aircraft burning 1900 kg/hr, two 'contractor' tech and three cabin crew, lower per hour/per day lease, higher per hour maintenance, lower MTOW therefore lower enroute + movement charges, or a 90 seater burning less per hour, two plus three 'in the QF system now' crew, higher per hour/per day lease, lower per hour maintenance, higher MTOW and thus higher enroute + movement charges......
Or would we be better going 7x weekly in a hand-me-down 737-400, completely amortized, no J class? Would that suit the travel needs of the market segment?
Hell, I don't know!!!
I don't have all the data!
Thats why I think Kym-me-lads confident assertions and rantings are a complete waste of breath.
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I smell Winstun all through Kyms postings, and I think that this post should be shut down. I think that Kyms comments are pathetic and not worth commenting on.
Maybe that is why Winstun has been really quiet lately????
just my ten cents( that I earned in Ga) I thought I would contribute to the post.
Maybe that is why Winstun has been really quiet lately????
just my ten cents( that I earned in Ga) I thought I would contribute to the post.
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P athetic is an understatement
U people have anything else to talk about. You speculate and talk crap over 2 a/c u people know nothing about.
Shut the whole godzone down. It is absolutely boring crap.
U people have anything else to talk about. You speculate and talk crap over 2 a/c u people know nothing about.
Shut the whole godzone down. It is absolutely boring crap.
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Heres a thought, get rid of those ugly 717's that have a string of problems a mile long, Qantas buy the Emb170, give it to the good guys at NJS then we all have a the perfect situation. No 146's, no McDonnel Douglas hand me downs and even better, the peanuts that fly them and then we have tried and true, proven to be able guys with years of experience flying 146's with NJS flying a nice little money earner. The regional fleet goes to two aircraft types, Dash and Emb170 and the culture of one of the most dire airlines to operate in these skies goes as well.
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C an't help but agree with Thumpa
U nusually low standard in this thread.
Not a heck of a lot of posts that seem like anything more than try-hard attempts to sound informed, hastily-typed out by arm-chair analysts in a feverish sweat of shaky conviction and the half-certain tentativeness of borrowed information and oft-quoted stats.
Time to move on.
Seeya round like an @rsehole.
U nusually low standard in this thread.
Not a heck of a lot of posts that seem like anything more than try-hard attempts to sound informed, hastily-typed out by arm-chair analysts in a feverish sweat of shaky conviction and the half-certain tentativeness of borrowed information and oft-quoted stats.
Time to move on.
Seeya round like an @rsehole.
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Pete do you really think that was necessary? From my experience the lads at Impulse are good people and operate their a/c pretty well. I don't think NJS pilot's or anyone has the right to come in here and sledge another operator like that. It has undertones that are not in any way positive and just slightly superior. Tone it down a bit mate!
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Pete...
You are a very small rude little man. Please do not read this thread any longer if it angers you so. No one will miss you.
Oh and I loved your technical analysis of the 'ugly' 717s... Very strong arguement there. Almost as credible as your mile long list of things that are wrong with them. Have you wrote the list out yourself?
Pete, thumpa, blat...
You are all very small rude little men. Please do not read this thread any longer if it angers you so. No one will miss you.
All any of us are doing is sharing views. You may not agree with them and you have the option to dispute with your own opinion. Doing as you gentlemen (using term loosly) have done has no other place than blat's trailer park.
You are a very small rude little man. Please do not read this thread any longer if it angers you so. No one will miss you.
Oh and I loved your technical analysis of the 'ugly' 717s... Very strong arguement there. Almost as credible as your mile long list of things that are wrong with them. Have you wrote the list out yourself?
Pete, thumpa, blat...
You are all very small rude little men. Please do not read this thread any longer if it angers you so. No one will miss you.
All any of us are doing is sharing views. You may not agree with them and you have the option to dispute with your own opinion. Doing as you gentlemen (using term loosly) have done has no other place than blat's trailer park.