national provider but was wondering bout EC standards ! thanks unregis

you have a PM slam

how I failed DART
 

After almost 2 years of preparation, I passed (in my country which is a part of Eurocontrol) Feast I, but failed DART.
By preparation I mean: Skytest, reading about aviation, reading about the national organization, watching movies about aircrafts and accidents. In my country, I had to pass medical and psychological examination, English and Feast I to get to DART.
About Feast I I have to say it was pretty similar to Skytest and preparation was very important to me. Everybody I knew had prepared, but not everybody passed. After Feast I, there were about 60 of us who were tested for DART. We were 400 at the beginning, so I felt good.
About DART, well, it's simple: at Skytest level 3, I got 100% at 5 subtasks and over 90% at the other subtasks.
But in the real test, at level 6, I had the revelation: I don't want to do this. I don't want to be an air traffic controller. I got mad during the test and I thought: this is what I had prepared for? This is what I would be doing for the rest of my life?
Well, I don't want you to say: she failed, what could she say? So, I will get more precise about my failure.
At level 6, I couldn't hear anything in my ears (those numbers and letters) for a long period of time. I only could hear what my colleagues heard in their own. And I started to check the level of sound. But this got me mad, why wasn't it like it supposed to be? Why couldn't I hear anything like my colleagues did? And I finished first the DART, but with this feeling that I'm not made for this. I expected something more spectacular from level 6. I expected something interesting. And it was very predictable and boring. And DART felt easy, but only because I already had demotivated.
One more thing about the people I met during the tests is this: don't make friends with them. It will cut your concentration. Those who passed seemed aggresive, silent, perverse, individualistic, cold and proffesional. They will talk to you about something and think about a very different thing.
They will seem weak and encouraging but they are just perverse. They reject you with a smile on their lips, because they feel stronger.
And what do I think in the end of the exams? You have to prefer numbers instead of words. Do you like to count anything? Then maybe you're good for the job.
And the last but not the least: how did you find out about this job? The ideal thing is that somebody announced you because they thought you might be good at it.
So, indeed it is not about the Skytest, although the preparation test is very good, it is not about this forum because you have to love numbers not words, and it is not about the people you meet there but about the ones who choose you. Or not.
In my native language, we say about a job that you have to have a calling for this, but by calling we don't mean the skills, but the fact that somebody has to call you for that job, because they think you're good for this.
So, good luck! If you think that you want to spend the rest of your life in front of a boring radar, talking and doing everything like a robot, and you think that you can do it for that amazind pay, have a nice experience. I had mine, and I say no, no, no.

I met a bunch of great people during my nats application, some passed and some failed, but the character traits you describe are not even close to those shown by the atcos I've met. Then again, sounds like you didn't want to pass any way.

Crazy Vayager, you are so right. At a certain point, I realised I don't want this. I can't say I could do it and I chosed not to, but although the test did't seem impossible to pass, I just had the feeling I'm not the right person for the job.
As to the type of people I met, well, this is my very subjective perception, which also might indicate I just had a terrible misunderstanding with myself when I decided to apply in ATCO jobs.
Good luck to all those who are made for this job! Good luck to those who are made for other jobs!

Not that I care, because I'm not applying anywhere, but I think your post would be so more useful and you would seem so much more professional if you just said that you lost your motivation instead of criticising everything and everyone and telling that it is boring to be in front of a radar because that is indeed exciting for other people.

Personally, I think that either you completely understood all the other people wrong or none of those 60 doing the dart are actually meant to be ATCs.
If there is one thing they tell you in the beginning of the process is that your interview and your assessment starts the moment you enter the building, so you should be as much friendly as you can and definetely get to know the other people. At least because some of them may actually be your future colleagues during training and co-workers later on.

What I interpret from that is that most people are naturally very nervous and they dont talk as much as they would in a relaxed environment. But saying they are there and all they want is to mislead you when they actually think otherwise, that is just something unthinkable if I may say. Specially because the application process is generally not a competition. Yes, they may have a specific number of openings, but if they find 3 or 4 more people perfectly suitable for the job, they will most of the times accept them or put them in one future group. It is very hard to find possible ATCos.

And as far as I can tell, the skytest or whatever it is called was definetly not a help for you, as it increased your expectations and made you stress out in the end. Things weren't going as planned, and of course, you started being stressed and noticing everything you shouldnt notice. I would say this is the real proof why not to use the preparation softwares. That and the price of them :D

Anyway, I wish you luck to your future career and should you want some free advice, please don't ever criticise others just because you failed because, with all due respect, that is what this post seems to me.

h&k*

:)
Yes, I said I had demotivated.
And I felt so sorry for the long efforts I made to study and to prepare for the exams and for all the nice talking with the people I met on messenger or in person. Because I have been sociable.
Maybe you are right and I'm wrong about the people I met, but I keep my opinion that when you are in an exam, you should keep in mind that you are there to pass, not to make friends.
From my past experiences, I passed exams where nobody smiled to me, where nobody seemed to like me, where nobody noticed me. And this wasn't the case. Some of them seemed so kind. Including a supervisor who smiled very warm to me :)
Well, I also hope you are professional enough to understand that after such efforts and hopes, I just can't be happy and not thinking that passing exams is a matter not only of skills but mainly of attitude.
Again, good luck to you all!

I was motivated, but I failed at DART after passing all other exams with high scores.
Now I cannot figure it out why I fail on the final part after passing all the medical exams, psychology test, english test and FEAST test. I got very little feedback and I am looking for help to get better for the future.
As feedback I was told that if 2 planes collides they will remain on the radar, not just dissapear as in the Skytest training software.
Can anyone help me with some information?
Thank you in advance.

i want to become an ATCer so badly
 

hi guys,
this is my first post! I want to become an ATCer more than anything!
Although some of you believe that practising in not a good idea...
i decided to practise.... think will make me feel more confident...
However i tried to find feasttest.com preparation tool but the webpage does not exist.
Does anyone use it?

if you really want to know if you have the skills to become an ATCO,stop practicing!
believe in yourself, that is the best practice. if you love the jobs, you will cry if you pass the tests and fail the training because you passed the tests only because of your preparation!

*cough* *cough* *cough**cough**cough**cough**cough**cough**cough**cough**cou gh**cough**cough**cough*

sorry im alergic to BS

brains are built to evolve every day , thats why we dont live in caves anymore . everything can be learnt and developed . EVERYTHING , so unregistered spare us with your wonderful , already known , obvious advices please . Ask any pshicologist about developing cognitive space , IQ , being spontaneous and other skills you think they cannot be trained.

so mister supercool, why do you think they test you before the training starts instead of training you(because it's "possible" :ugh: )?

and why do you think they pay thousands of euros for psychologists to analyse your skills?

and why do you think all ansp's test their applicants?

of coouuurse because it can be learnt.


of course you can improvie your skills. but as an example:

you are not trained and can run 100 meters within 12 seconds,someone who has trained for some years can run 100 meters within 11.5 seconds.

what do you think. who is better? you without training or he with a lot training?

of course you!

and why is training useless? because they want to compare applicants without any experience. it is impossible to compare applicants with experience and applicants without expericenes together.

Unregistered: forget it, we've tried - they dont want to know.

Malakajin: another joker with ZERO chance of ever making it with Eurocontrol. This thread needs to be closed.

Hey guys, why do you think, that people can not get and obtain skills for this job?
It's not born-skills, and you can get it during training!!!!!!
In ukraine, we have stupid system! we should pass the training at first, and than just before graduating we had to pass feast! and at first during my training i did not do best, but with time, i increase and improve my preparation!
In two month's i'm going to graduate, and will have simulator training test and knowledge test!
And i think, it doesn't matter how do you feel in the beginning, before applying, every one can obtain skills to be an ATC!!!
I'm sure that no one can sit in front of radar screen and perform ATC job! you should be trained to do it!!!!

of course it's born!!!

why do you think they say it is born and they test you???? ahhhhhh...!

Guess it's possible to learn anything - provided you have enough time. However that is not the case with air traffic controller training. You have a limited amount of time and that is why they need to know if you are able to learn more or less complicated things considerably fast. It is better not to practice for the FEAST test because if you do not have the ability to learn new things quickly, you are not going to make it through the training. They are not looking for perfect controllers but people who can be trained to become one.

One more thing: an unsuccessful trainee asked reason for their termination: "You are progressing, but not fast enough."

I don't agree with you!
The feast test is not good thing for assessment!
Some one can be really good in simulator training and other subjects, but other's can't do it well, but they good in such mental things like feast test!
A lot of people who passed feast package with me, they are not good in such subjects like meteorology, atc service, navigation! they don't have brain to study it!!! even english...we are the 4th year in cadets, and a lot of them dont have even the 3rd level of ICAO...but they passed feast...
some can pass feast and they are not able to controll 5-8 a/c at the same time, but another one didn't pass it, good in every subject and have more than 20 a/c undercontroll in simulator, and dreamed to become an atc since childhood!

of course,the feast is not a good test because it is too easy! but what do you think, why do so many fail the training? because they practiced for feast.

in germany,we have a different system which is much more difficult, but nearly all who pass the test,pass the training,too.

when you have the entrance level for universities,you should be able to learn such things as atm etc. that is nothing which has to be tested by feast.
if a student fails the training because of something like this, he was too lazy.


and sorry,but you shouldn't be so ahm,unfriendly. your english isn't perfect aswell.

Why did you decide that i am unfriendly?)
I just don't agree with you)
I spend a lot of time at father's job, at simulator training...and this test doesn't reflects the knowledge.. some could overtake you, just because you failed the tests...it's not "fair play"...

And what about practicing...i practiced maybe for 4 months...and i passed it easily...i didn't find it hard for myself...

because you are not a native speaker and in my opinion, your english is not that good that you could judge other people because of their english skills.

but that is my own opinion.

No...i'm not native speaker...but i try to do my best...and i hate people who doing nothing and pay for exams, and have good marks.....especially for subjects, which are very important for ATC job....

Hi everybody!

As I try to be an ATCO, I read everything I can find.
I was reading your argument (actually, more or less I ran trough the whole topic), and I need to tell you, both sides have their own right.

I accept, that you are able to improve your skills, but not unlimited. Trough training you can reach your own limit, which is, however, born. It's almost like having ear for music. If you do have it, you can be better, because you have a basic to build on. If you dont't, well, there is nothing to do.

That is exactly the conception, I based my preparation on. I knew, I don't use my brain enough, as my current work doesn't need it, so I played puzzle and other logical games, just to bring myself into sharp condition.
It worked, I passed FEAST I in my country.
Next week I go to DART, and to tell the truth, I'm a little bit afraid, and very excited :)

multiple events test
 

Hello. I am taking the exam in about a month. Eurocontrol. I am practising on skytest and was practising on feasttest.com before it became unavailable. The 4 screens are numbered differently in these two and it is very confusing. If anyone took the test, can you please tell me how the screens are numbered?

hellow , i am new here , can you tell meu where have you been practicing ?some test or something please i really need some help here:sad:

I suggest you read the previous posts!!!
@ Mods - I think this is going round in circles, maybe it is time to close it down :eek:

Close it down ??!!?? :eek::eek::eek:

What if someone is desperate to find info on where,how,or when he/she should train and - let's not forget - on WHY it could be beneficial to do so ...
or not :ugh:

There could still be a question to be asked:E

Not too surprised the success rate has gone down the drain when I read the posts on here :cool:

Close it down , please , Close it down...

Especially as Eurocontrol aren't recruiting for at least 18 months!! :sad:

thank you , I "ll do so :)

Exactly - if potential candidates are so brainless as to not to be able to read a forum and accept advice, what chance have they got.....

DART test
 

Hello everyone,
I practiced SDM(Strip Display Management) test for about 1 hour in skytest.com and i found it easy, even in the hard levels. I also tried DART which is so different from SDM but i found it difficult and I stopped. The problem was that I couldn't set the correct heading to a/cs so it was difficult to manage them. I recently heard that in second phase of the actual feast test the SDM test is now replaced by DART. I am very disappointed because i was hoping for the SDM. I don't understand why everybody say that SDM is difficult and DART is easy, for me it's the opposite. Can anybody explain me about changing the heading (find the correct heading to pass the checkpoints)? I assume the heading is based on the a/c you control, so its quite difficult to find the correct heading from the first attempt. Should I wait for the a/c to get near the checkpoint and then change the heading?

stop practicing and read this thread.

the instructors will answer all your questions before you start with the test.

Feast I - passed
 

Congratulations to all Cypriots that past FEAST I - i passed and i am happy because i followed the instructions that eurocontrol send and also what some atcos here like BeT where instructing, and its true - No practice would ever help me to pass Feast test - you either can follow the brain wave or not - some tests were so fast that i thought that they were trying to fry my brain :O
Wishing good luck to everyone going for DART and to believe to ourselves - because even if you have it but you are the leader of negativity - it will not help at all.

feast test
 

I passed the feast test and now I am getting ready for DART. Andriko, first of all congrats for your success on part1. You passed with no practice at all?? I practiced at feast.com, just to at least get an idea of what to expect. And I passed. I found the tests slightly more difficult and with a few differences.

I keep reading in this forum that practicing will not get you anywhere and stuff like that and I was wondering, how come you guys are so sure that it's either "you have what it takes or not", when Eurocontrol itself allows you to retake the exams after initial failure?

Paraskevoula - Thanks and Congrats to you too. The reality of how my brain worked was that i know is a very stressful and demanding job and i want to see if i just can do it without trying too much because i had many positions that were stressful in the past. The question is even if you pass DART and you get selected, if you are willing to make so many sacrifices e.g i will see my income going down if i follow this job.

so you really think,taking feast for one time within two years is practicing?

if yes,i dont want to know how many years you have to wait until you can take the test.

feast
 

You go on and on preaching how some people are born with the abilities required to become controllers. And i ask you, if eurocontrol thought that was the case, then wouldn't a failure be a pretty good indicator that you simply don't have what it takes? Why do they allow you to retake the exams?
You are all very narrow minded. You should maybe consider the possibility that a person has the abilities but may simply need some practice to enhance what's already there. If there's nothing there, there's nothing to enhance. That simple.

As has been said (many, many times) - you have a certain opinion, we (as qualified controllers, working at Eurocontrol) have ours.

Ultimately, its impossible to say who is right and who is wrong.

However (and its a BIG however), we make comment and opinion after having gained relevant experience in the subject area...... you and others make comment based on emotion and a desire to succeed, which I suppose is perfectly understandable.

What is very frustrating is when after having given our advice (over and over and over again) individuals try to dismiss it as 'rubbish' or innacurate, yet have no meaningful basis to do so. Dont confuse your emotions with reality.

We gain nothing by posting on here, in fact we only stand to lose - our advice is well intentioned and will hopefully allow others to join us in a career we love. When the advice of 'dont practice' is given; its not to upset you, or counteract you in some way, or to make an argument. Its simply the BEST advice.

On a more basic level when individuals appear on the thread and ask the same question for the 1000th time, it becomes tiresome and annoying. If people cant be bothered to read or research, then this is not the career for you.

On an even more basic level, it looks like Eurocontrol are putting a semi-permanent halt on training (3yrs or so) - so none of you will be joining us anyway........:\

Thanks for the advice. You are so kind. You have your opinion, i have mine.
Yet you did not answer my question. Does eurocontrol think that within 2 years a person magically gains the abilities to be an air traffic controller thus he is able to retake and pass the exams? If you fail now, you will fail after 2 years if you dont have what it takes right? So why do they allow you to take feast again?
Its a simple question really, I'm surprised you don't get it. As an atc you are not as sharpminded as i thought. Wow! I may have a chance as well after all!!

Unfortunately they dont allow me to reply in this forum. Anw Paraskevoulla dont have arguments with them. My opinion Is that you passed the test because you have what it takes for Feast I. I cant believe that someone with practice can trick that bombarding of questions especially in the last part.
BeT - we have our own school since we have many smart and successful Atcos. Eurocontrol is only providing the tests. So yes we are not joining you - we are joining us :)