I can confirm that I have been invited for testing, I was given a choice of dates to pick from, the first is the 24th and 25th April. It appartently will involve sim testing, another interview and a medical.

Still no idea what the package will be as yet, but if they want my services they will have to make it worth my while! :}

Oh well, I guess they didn't appreciate my 'honesty' after all.

Where to go next I wonder?

Just to clarify things???
 

So do we receive sth either way....."positif or negatif" or do they just sent sth if they are still interested......just trying to get an idea


thx

My German friends... a little ot question: what's the "German Corner"??

KRH Radial 270 DME 12


KRH = Karlsruhe. An inofficial point used as a short cut...

Take a look:

http://www.wimo.de/sbs-1-ss3.htm


Saigor

Ok... I see.
It was a strange request by Swiss for a traffic going northbound. So it's not identified with a fix, rnav point or something similiar?? You tell a pilot "clear direct to German Corner" and everybody know that they have to fly to KRH 270/12?? Cool!! I've learned a new direct!! TGO or KRH are getting boring!! :D

So did everybody get an answer after there interview yet or what is the deal????

german corner is in most boxes...try KRH12 ;)

Dear DFS colleagues,
Terms and conditions for available positions, not radials and DME distances ,if any! :ugh:

do you, as a controller, know all the details about terms and condition, packages, training schedules and so on, which may be offered to direct entries of another country, if it is the first time your company would do that on a larger scale?

Well, I don't know any details, heard some rumors, but lacking any facts.

But DME and Radials - that's something I know.

And even the known facts about the direct entrys are changing from week to week. As an example, first all Units needed some new controllers, and all of them should get some. Later it changed to Karlsruhe and Langen only. In the meantime I learned that Munich will get some of the direct entries as well.

If you are looking for details about terms and conditions offered, ask the DFS, and IMHO don't be shy about it. To change the country (or even the continent) is a large step for anybody - therefore it could be impolite to ask about money, but it is a necessity to know some details like future income.

Greetings

Saigor

Hi Saigor,
I had no idea to be rude.
regarding direct entries,I believe that there will be the same T&C as for "locals" . I do not believe that your union or associations will accept anything else.
It means, excellent T&C,
Best regards

no prob, I would be interested in details as well. And I would be pleased to give details to you (or the other possible ready entries), but I don`t want to talk rubbish. So the best choice is to shut up about details.
And a strong union must not work in favour of ready entries, because a high number of ready entries would shift power to the employer. They won't accept bad conditions but they have to honour
the time in the company of the 'older' controller. As an educated guess, a ready entrie would get a lot more money as a normal trainee, but not as much as a rated controller. But that's only a a guesstimate.

And it's one union www.GdF.de , still with some eggshells behind the ears, but strong from the beginning.....

And I would be pleased to welcome some ready entries in Munich, improves the flair ;)

Saigor

@ saigor,
thanks for reply,but did I tell you about my level of German language?
Ein Warsteiner,and so on:) trough :ptill :mad:

Any news on the package?
 

Hi,

Has anyone heard more news about what they will be offering as a final package?

I heard some people got a further invite, sadly i have not received anything so i'm afraid my chance is up.....too bad....i would have enjoyed being back in Germany.

But i wish the best to the other candidates and well will remain interested in the offers that may be granted.

So i hope you guys will keep the rest of us in the loop.......thanx.

I think you will get the same as everyone else,
 

e.g. normal pay according to DFS payscheme. I don´t know about a retirement packag though. From age 55 till retirement it will be the same as the "German" controllers, e.g about 70% of last pay. This is called "Uebergangsversorgung". I think the actual retirement payment by DFS depends on how long you have been with the company, but that´s just an educated guess.

I would say that if you´re young joining DFS is certainly no mistake...unless you work for EUROCONTROL or Honolulu Approach. We complain a lot but having read pprune for a couple of years now I come to the conclusion that management sucks everywhere....

I got the information that one course is scheduled to start in June, another in September. Personally I would say this will be postponed by at least three months because no one has a contract yet as far as I know.

If you want to follow discussions among German controllers try www.atcnet.de but don´t take everything seriously there!

Any news out there?

No contracts at all yet, they told us.....

Come on ladies/gents give us some juice!!
 

Hey,

Its been awhile since the DFS advertised some opening slots......so what is the news from the chosen ones hehe? What kind of package are they going to offer?
I hope for those that are chosen that they offer you a basic german class in the package.....on top of other things.

But anyway let us unlucky but still interested ones know of the outcome.....it would furfill my curiosity and many others on pprune as well.


Thanx

looking for info
 

Hi, I can't start a new thread for some reason so I'm using this post.
I am a French ATC trainee doing a thesis about the status of ATCs overall Europe. That's why I need some information about DFS, especially about your school in Langen. I don't know if it's a secret school but we can't find any information about it. :}
So if a German ATC could remember his time in Langen it would help me :)
First of all, how was the exam to enter the school ?
Then what was the salary while there?
Anything you could remember from your time in school would be nice too.

Another question even if it's not related, I can't find the age of retirement for ATC in belgocontrol, if a nice Belgium controller could answer me ...

Thanks in advance !

Hi sihame,

first of all you have to fullfill some requirements, about school grades, age and so on. If you pass that one, a test by the DLR will follow, two days with computer tests for memory, english, dimensional awareness, concentration. Hard time....
Thereafter, one day with some more sophisticated, more ATC related test, a bit of assesment center (to check the ability of team work).
Fourth day is another english test, if I remember correctly an interview of about half an hour in english, medical exam and on the fifth day a psychologic evaluation up to 2 hours (the last two days are open about the sequence, depending on the number of test persons)

Money at the academy is about 600 €, but I wouldn't bet anything on that number ;)

Other memories? Lot's of learning, lot of fun. Good time there but as well good to be in a real working position after that time. Best of it been the Sim.....

Have fun

Saigor

Currently 766 € gross, which is about 500 € net.

Still the case, at least from what I can see halfway through the course. :)

Starting with theory only (about four weeks), then theory and sim alongside, with ever increasing sim portion.
Starting in June, we'll have mostly sim for the remaining 8 months, which everyone is looking forward to.

No additions wrt the testing in Hamburg, however, the school grades requirement has been lifted.

Regards,

Robert

thank you
 

Thank you very much for the answers, we really appreciate it !!

By the way, we are still looking for the age of retirement at Belgocontrol !!!

Tomorrow will be too late !! ;) It's not a joke, we'll hand our thesis back tomorrow

Interesting to see that the Germans have advertised again (about the 5th time I think) on Flight Global.

Has anyone actually accepted a contract yet?

I know of one aussie who turned the contract down, even compared to Aussie dollars the amount wasn't worth it.

Wonder if they will up the amount they are offering, might the only way to get people over there.

They are
 

DESPERATE! I´m sure they will eventually make it a good package, because DFS needs you, and yesterday wouldn´t be soon enough. I´m just not sure if management also sees it that way yet! :rolleyes:

Can someone give out the package???
 

Does anybody have info on the package or what is the deal......Does anybody know if somebody has already been selected and if so do they have a start date.....?

I think the DFS might be looking for to much experience but will not pay the price to get it.

To bad the DFS wasn't more interested in me since i have other reasons i would like to be in Germany but oh well......maybe in the future.

at least three got an offer in munich (maybe more, but three are for sure), start date end of 2008, nothin' about the package.....


Saigor

I know of 3 that are going to Karlsruhe. Package seems to include a salary which is on par with the number of years for which you've held a license. Moving costs are also covered. Don't know of any additional monies.

It also seems that DFS head office lays down a basic package and every applicant negotiates with the unit of his choice for a better deal. Seems the individual units are very flexible, depending on how badly they want a person. If you are a weak negotiator, you don't get much.....If you pick a unit that's not too keen on offering more or doesn't want to upset the local controllers by giving you a salary which you should be entitled to(ie. slot you in on a training salary), you should maybe try a different unit/centre.

Thanx for the info!!!!!!

I would love to reapply hehe to bad 2 years haven't gone by yet so i could maybe have a better chance....

It would make my trips to Germany easier hehe.....

but once again thanx again to the local controllers for keeping there ears open and writting to the rest of the world on here about the situation!!!!

What's the creteria? which nationalities?

Don't think it matters what nationality you are.
Criteria would be more or less as follows:
Below 37ish (am guessing here) and busy sectors at your present place of employment.

That would be it I think.

127...
 

Nope definitely guessing, 39 is doing fine too....;)

126.7:
it DOES matter what nationality you are - DFS prefers European controllers, because their licenses can easily be transferred into a German one.

In addition to that, you have to fulfill some requirements to receive a Security clearance which you need to have regardless of unit. That means, citizens of certain countries (e.g. some former Soviet Republics and some middle east and far east contries) will not be considered by DFS because of their heritage - it is sad, but the rules are made by the government and I guess, other countries have similar laws.

Hope to see some of you guys soon here in sunny Karlsruhe :-)

retirement age at Belgocontrol is 55:ok:

RheinControl
Yeah, I know about your company's or your government's feelings about eastern European ATCOs. Especially the two foreign chaps you have in Karlsruhe. The government didn't treat them too nicely did it? Maybe DFS should rephrase their little advert in flight global to say that ATCOs from questionable countries need not apply. But then they should also state which countries they see on that list....

Funny how either DFS or Flight Global misspelt their company name. DES?? :ok:

Hi,

has anybody signed a contract yet ?

Good lucky to everybody how wants to join DFS !

atc
 

hello people... i find this forum very exciting to read, thanks to all who are making this contributions. I also made an attempt to the DFS and they said I wait they will get back to me. Those who have gone through, what questions do I expect if am called for the interview?
And to my would-be-colleagues ( if i make it) in Germany, is there any racial discriminations ?
I have alot of warmth towards Germany.
:ok:

The numbers I´ve heard
 

from somebody who should know them: DFS wants to pay you around 56k€ (numbers always plus about 10% for nights, holidays etc) in training but is apparantly willing to negotiate that figure because they will obviously not get people for less than they earn now. It´s what they pay OJTs just out of school.
Once you´re fully licensed you´ll get what everyone else gets, i.e. starting at roughly 91k€, after eight years maxing out at about 108k€.
Also I´ve heard about a relocation package and support for the rest of the family (language courses etc).

The new shift scheme(s) are not yet agreed upon.

@kosamena: There´s no racial discrimination at work, I´m sure of that! Outside you might run into one idiot or the other, but it´s probably not different from anywhere else in the world.

Amen brother, most people won't be moving for the opportunity alone, they need to put some cash incentives.

Not exactly record breaking pay there, nothing like Eurocontrol, or the Middle East salaries especially when you factor in taxation.

We have heard they are desperate because of sector moves into Karlsruhe, is that right? If so they'll need to make it financially attractive to get the people they really need and want.

Contract offered
 

I'm going to lay it all on the line. I am a south african with 5 years approach control experience. I have no clue about cost of living in Germany but am considering taking a contract with DFS. Please tell me what you think of the following:
Training salary 2920 Euro per month.
Family to stay back home for at least 6 months while I begin training!!
Will pay 1500 Euro per family member for language course.
4970 Euro per month once I get my first sector license.

Are those figures net or gross? Well actually it doesn't matter as they are pathetic either way. Have you negotiated on the pay, apparently each ACC is able to negotiate according to experience?
With the Middle east desperately short of controllers, and wiling to pay approx 9500 euros net a month (Abu Dhabi/Dubai/Bahrain) then the DFS needs to up the ante.
For me to be interested, and yes I am in negotiations, they need to be offering 6000+ after tax, and around 15000 for relocation including estate agency fees.

@F.L.F,
 

I guess there´s no way to be offered more than 7200€/month before tax because that´s what fully licensed controllers get after their last checkout. Even if add the 1,1 months extra pay per year and about 500€ tax free per month for holidays, nights etc you will come nowhere near 6000€+ after tax in your first year.

As a single I got almost exactly 72.000€ net for 2007, being fully licensed for seven years.
If you´re married the figure should have been around 80.000€....but then it might be worth less than half! :E

@hermy, I wouldn´t start the training for 3000 a month. You are fully licensed elsewhere and are far more experienced than a new guy fresh from shool, hence you should be worth a little more. Just remember, as a single 3000 a month will be around 1700€ after tax and social security fees, plus maybe 250€ shift allowance. Say you´ll be at 2000€ net...it´s ok, but it´s not plenty!
A two-bedroom appartment will easily cost you around 800€, gas is around 1,50€/litre today. Go to an Italian restaurant and you´ll pay at least 10€ for a pizza and a beer.
I would try to negotiate a better deal, don´t let them forget that other outfits are searching too and offering more!