hey bartkobe

if I remember, once you start you cant stop.

shugs

Hi abz217,

I was a bit luckier with timings than shugs - I had my first stage on the 10th November and could have been starting at college in April if I didn't have a contract at work that means I can't leave until June!

My best advice would be to read through all the stuff on here and apply as soon as you are ready :)

I empathise
 

Hello!
I'm going for my stage 1 in London on the 30th March (9.30am). I just read your message, and it made me smile as I am in a pretty similar situation to you. I have no idea what any planes are, and am trying it as I figure that it is worth a go. If I find that I have passed then it's all gravy :ok: , but I'm going to concentrate on one stage at a time.

s1 30th March AM
 

Yes, I'm there! Will see you there! :}

Pedantic questions
 

Hello guys!
I would like to say that this thread is amazing-it has been really helpful for me as I revise for the Stage 1.
These questions may seem a bit picky, but I don't want to fall over the first hurdle.
When it comes to revising the plane information (something, admittedly, I'm finding it a bit of a struggle), do I need to remember by rote the seating and operation information? :ugh:

learn everything they give you, you'll need it at some point :ok:

got stage 1 tomorrow arhhh
any hints or tips very nervous
would help alot
cheers

Early night mate is the best advice I can give you! you can either do the tests or not, just an early night and try not to worry too much.

Maybe we could have a sticky at the top of the forum.....Yes, you should learn everything! :ugh::cool:

A few weeks ago I advertised a document which outlines a brief summary of every stage of the recruitment process. It was basically a 7-page PDF file which I wrote as I completed each stage.

I received lots of replies from people requesting the document and received lots of good feedback.

For those interested in the document, please PM me your personal email address so that I can send the document as an attachment!

Yours truly generous,

UORDOM

Message for Jacka27 from Co Durham
 

Hiya Jacka27

Your date doesn't happen to be on the 29th at Glasgow does it?

Ive got my first part up there. I'm from the Co. Durham area too!

Good luck mate..

Stage 2
 

Anyone else got stage 2 on the 27th March 9AM

Thanks for everone that replied to me
 

Thanks everyone

can anyone that goes/went for their interview quite recently send me some examples of what types of questions they ask on personnality and about the planes cuz i aint got a clue about the planes lol:ugh: lol

and erm can someone send me the pdf file that they send you once they chose you for stage 1 plzzzzzzz:) lol to
[email protected]

or even jus send it to me via a private message lol

many thanks

Hi abz217,

Most of what you're looking for is in this thread somewhere - just search for Stage 1 or personality and you should find a load of stuff. The personality test comes after the Stage 1 tests (if you pass) - it's a multi choice thing similar to a Myers-Briggs test (google it for examples). I think there's a link for the Stage 1 document somewhere on here too.

The plane info is contained in the document for Stage 1 - for this stage, they just expect you to learn what's in there (ie. you don't have to have any prior knowledge of planes, etc).

Hope this helps...When are you planning on applying?

When are you planning on applying
 

I will apply as soon as i hit 18 which is on April 12th lol cant wait :ok::ok:

I will try and find the stuff on this but if i cant find it would u mind sendin it if u ave it ???????

About these personality tests:

Something just sprung to my mind and I thought I would let y'all know.

When I was working for Thomas Cook (as crew), we were all sat down in a classroom with a pilot who spoke to use about CRM.

One part of his day involved giving us all an answer sheet, reading a set of questions and four possible answers. We picked the answer most relevent to us (similar to the NATS quiz).

By the end of the lengthy process, he gave us a rundown of what marks we could add/deduct with regards to answering ABCD for each question. By the end of it, our personality was summed up by 2 numbers (which he used as an (x,y) co-ordinate on a chart he drew up)

Basically, myself and one other guy called Trev were only doing crew as a "foot in" to the aviation industry. We weren't particuarly keen on making a career out of it, although we enjoyed it nonetheless.

However, on the chart, all bar three of the crew in the room had co-ordinates placed above a threshhold drawn on the graph, and three came below it. Myself, Trev, and one female crewmember.

The pilot described how this line he had drawn generally seperated the warm/fuzzy crew brains from the cold/decisive brains of the flight deck :P

It was a bit of fun, but I am sure that this test is just one example of how even a relatively quick personality tests can bring forward some good results.

Who or what is CRM?

Crew Resource Management. It's usually not based specifically on the skills for your particular job (flight crew, cabin crew, etc) but more on how to improve 'soft skills' (ie. communication, conflict resolution, decision making, leadership, team building, etc etc) and working out what kind of person you are and what environment you work in best (as in this example).

Passed my medical today, have been offered a May start date in Bournemouth (along with Paperclip and Arrows by the look of it), can't wait!

Congratulations Monkfish.

I'm currently waiting to see if my application form is good enough to get me an interview. Has anyone ever failed on the basis of the application form? Also how long do they tend to take before they let you know, I'm rather impatient, they've only had 3 working days so far and I'm already worrying.
Last year I failed the personality questionnaire so I'm happy to have passed that this year. For anyone looking for advice on this my experience is that I passed when I told the truth. Last year I tried to be clever and put what I thought would get me through and was gutted when I failed, this year I was truthful on every question even though I felt at times like I was throwing away my chance of getting through. This leads me to think it's nothing but a lie detector test.
If I do get through to interviews I'm a bit worried that I'll struggle due to the fact that I don't really have much of an interest in aviation. I don't feel that this will make me any less likely to get through the training and do the job well than someone who loves aviation. I currently work for a car manufacturer there are plenty of very good employees who have no real interest in the cars they are just very good at their jobs. What are people's thoughts on this? I asked this to the ATC who was present at my stage 1 tests and she said you didn't need to be a plane spotter to get the job and that she'd never been particularly interested in aviation.
I'm planning on arranging a visit to a tower or area control centre but don't know whether it's worth trying to get this in before stage 2 interviews or if it's okay to wait and go if I pass stage 2. Do those who passed stage 2 think a visit would be beneficial beforehand?

ATC Hopeful,

A few quick answers that I hope will help:

- I do not think you can fail the "application form stage" as such, so I would not worry too much.

- You do not need to arrange a tower/ACC visit before stage 2, it is definitely worth doing both, if you can, before stage 3.

- Regarding the interest in aviation. I do think that a general interest helps (maybe in terms of motivation, enjoyment of the job, ...) but there is no need to be a plane spotter. The abilities required to become an air traffic controller are not necessarily more "abundant" in plane spotters ;).

In my particular case, I have spent 9 years in the electronics/semiconductor industry and I am now happily starting Area training in May (I am quite interested in aviation/ATC but it probably comes from my technological background).

Thanks windneckin.
Is organising a visit to an area control / tower easily done or can you be kept waiting for an available slot? I don't know how long you tend to get between stage 2 and 3, is it plenty of time to organise and visit the centres?

Hi ATC Hopeful

I did three visits prior to stage three, all very easily organised. Just phoned HR and they gave me contacts at the relevant airports/centres. Suppose it depends where your looking to book, but in my case I got to pick my own dates and times, no waiting at all.

Again it varies for spacing between stages two and three, in my case I waited two months to get a space in Glasgow for the final stage, but could have gone down to CTC the week after passing stage two if I had wanted.

Good luck though, I was in exactly the same situation with regard the personality test, failed in 2007 (because I lied) but have a conditional offer this time.

ATC Hopeful,

Exactly as shugs explained. You should have no problem organising the visits before your stage 3 (I also did three visits, two NATS, one non-NATS). In my case, I just contacted the aerodromes and area control centre directly, explaining why I was interested in a visit.

Start dates
 

Good news Monkfish. I think you were on the same Stage 2 and 3 as me... Sadly not starting till July/August as I'm stuck in a contract until June! Was that your CAA or NATS medical you've just passed?

Jen

Had my stage 1 testst this afternoon in Manchester, think it was okay but we shall see in at most 15 working days.
Mann i hate waiting. :')
Good luck to everyone in the same position and further, and thanks Pprune regulars for keeping this vast treasure trove open to us, 'potentials'.

Indeed I was Jen, can't believe you guys left me all alone for the afternoon in Manchester!!

It was the CAA medical that I passsed today. Hope it all goes well for you on Friday

Medical
 

I got through the first stage and have just sent off my application form online.
Does anyone know roughly how long it is between sending this off and the date of the interview? And when does the medical fit into this, is it at the same time as your interview, or do you arrange it with your own doctor?
Thanks!

The medicals take place after Stage 3, and they should be considered the final stage before acceptance.

Your own doctor may be able to tell you you're fit and healthy, but NATS require you to pass the CAA medical (required to legally hold an ATCO licensce) and the more stringent NATS medical.

Basically, CAA medical covers you for the next couple of years, and as such you could pass with problems which are detected, but not serious enough to fail your medical with, at least for a few years.

NATS would like to employ folk who are going to stay healthy in their current shell, with no real problems due to pop up within your career. This is why it is a stricter medical - they want you problem free for both the CAA medical, and for your employment term.

Hope that answers your questions,
Andy

atc visit
 

I tried organising a visit to manchester area and they won't have me till i am at stage 3 atleast. Any one know anywhere that might?

I think Swanwick are ok about it, but that's only from what I've read here. To be honest (in my opinion, of course), visits won't really help you at all at Stage 2 (I didn't go on any till after Stage 2) as it's still tests rather than chats.

Airports might be more willing too...

That cleared things up, thanks andy!

Final Approach
 

Hi all,

I am currently revising for my stage 3 and I have a problem that I was looking for opinions on.

If a Cessna 172, Boeing 737 and a Boeing 747 were to be sequenced into a final approach, what order would you put them in?
I'm not too sure what order they should go in and what the ATCO will be looking for at the interview. There are two ways I was thinking about.

1) 1st. Cessna 172(followed by a gap of three miles), 2nd. Boeing 737 (followed by a gap of three miles), 3rd. Boeing 747.

2) 1st. Boeing 747 (followed by a gap of five miles), 2nd. Boeing 737 (followed by a gap of four miles), 3rd. Cessna 172.

The problem with this is that I could argue a case for each method as they each have advantages but I was wondering what the correct way to do it is (i.e. The way the ATCO would ).

Number 1) is a good way because it gets all the aircraft into land in the shortest possible time. Whereas number 2) has it's advantages because it gets the larger aircraft in first because they are carrying the most passengers; so it promotes safety first.

If anyone knows the correct way please either post it on here or PM me.

Gordon

Is it usual to have to wait around a while before a date becomes available for stage 3?

Gordon, I'm not an ATCO, but the problem I would see with the C172 first is that it has a much slower approach speed (65-75kts) than the two jets, so in reality you'd probably need a larger space behind it to allow for the jets to catch up. An interesting question! In reality I guess the jets would go first due to commercial pressures, but whether that is "right" I don't know...

Gordon, if they do ask you this, they want to see your thought process and not the final answer, they don't expect you to know straight away everything as you haven't trained yet... they just want to see your thought process

Hi Gogz 87

I wouldn’t get too bogged down in thinking about it for a couple of reasons, firstly, they are looking for thought processes NOT a trained controller, otherwise they wouldn’t bother sending you to college.

Secondly, I think you’ll be fine as long as there is some logic in you answers, which there clearly is. And if the ATC takes you down this road, then it doesn’t matter what answer you give because they will throw problems in your way anyway, and see how you deal with them.

Not able to give anything more definitive because I never got asked any of that stuff at my final stage.

Sure you’ll be fine though, you’re clearly studying hard

marco888, depends how far you are prepared to travel, think the dates are updated all the time. As per previous post, I waited for a nearer location but could have travelled further to make it sooner.

shugs

Hi
does anyone know what page the PDF file so that i know what you have to learn for the stages and the planes cuz i have had a look through this but i cant seem to find it and plus there are over 100 pages to this thing lol

thanks anyone:ok:

I would go with what JonathanB said. I am not an ATCO as of yet, so I am ready to be corrected, but having the C172 first is probably not a good idea. Even thought it *might* give you the shortest space it is not the shortest time (actually the speed restrictions on the jets would be around their stall speed so, as JonathanB said, you would probably need larger space between them).

In fact, based on my understanding... here are some rough estimates of the Approach/Landing speeds of the three aircraft:

C172 = 110KT/65KT
737 = 250KT/140KT
747 = 250KT/160KT

All that without even taking into account number of passengers, connections, landing fees, .... there are quite a number of factors involved :ok:.

... and yes... you are not supposed to know all this for your interview, as mentioned above, I believe it is mostly the reasoning process they are after.

Had my stage 3 on Monday. Was feeling really good about it, but just got an email saying i've failed :-(

Really don't understand it. I felt so confident about the whole day. Did well in the group game, had the best interview i've ever had. Always had a well thought out response to every question and seemed to impress the HR and ATCO. I walked out of there thinking they were on the verge of offering me the position there and then.

Might only be my first time, but i don't know how i could do any better next time. Here's hoping they made a mistake, but doubt it.