-
 

hi all,

in the few last weeks I read something diamond-thingy related to the diagramming test. Can you explain me what's that?

The 'diamonds' related to the diagramming test are a sort of secondary action which is applied and restructures the order of the sequence after you've performed the primary actions such as reverse colours etc.

So for example, in the hardest questions of the test towards the end, there are 4 boxes to perform actions on and then at the bottom of the chain is a diamond attached indicating that a restructuring/reordering is required like reversing the whole sequence, in reversing it means reversing the order after the result of the commands, so 1-2-3-4 becomes 4-3-2-1 etc.

Hope this makes sense, the diamond attached questions come about half way through the test if I remember correctly. Make good use of the scrap paper and you should be ok. Good luck.

ATC assistants
 

Hi Loz,

Regarding your question about ATC assistants: I spoke to the assistants at Southampton about this when I was visiting their tower.

Basically there isn't an enourmous demand for this role, apparently NATS generally fill their requirement for assistants by recruiting people who have failed at college as TATCOs (I guess they figure they've already invested in you quite a bit, and you've already had a lot of very helpful training). Occasionally NATS might advertise for assistants, but I don't think they've done so in a very long time.

Non NATS airfields will generally advertise publicly for assistants (check flight magazine etc.) but these roles don't come around a lot. Sometimes this can be a good back door route into ATC - become an assistant at a non NATS airfield, and then later on if they need new ATCOs and if you are lucky then they might sponsor you through one of the non NATS courses (i.e. probably at Cwmbran).

Stage 3 - 29th January
 

Hi Guys,

Anyone having their stage 3 this Friday? I'm most likely going to look for a B&B to stay in Thursday night, if anyone else is then I wouldn't mind discussing stage 3 with anyone interested in sharing experience/knowledge.

Thanks!
Scotty

-
 

Thank you T250, your post makes it clear in my head, cheers :ok:

Loz4085 - ref becoming an ATSA (Air Traffic Services Assistant). With AC Swanwick going paperless next March (well, maybe!) there are many assistant posts being made redundant, so those that are currently employed in the AC Ops Room are filling up all the other posts around the country when possible. Several towers have also gone paperless so assistant numbers are dropping there too. Basically, not much hope of a NATS ATSA job.

Newbie :)
 

Hi Guys

I recently applied for ATC, i just got the emails a couple of days ago inviting me to do the online test and for the s1 selection test. im doing my research and so glad i came across this forum! so many helpful people! i chose a test date for 2 months time so i can really do my homework- i really want this job! my question is, the first test is an online test- and reading through the forum i was getting confused- is it the personality test or something else? i even read that the online test doesnt even count?! im obviously not going to assume that but I just want to make sure im prepared for each one. thanks :)

Hi all,

I've got my Stage 1 tests on the 5th February in Fareham, and I'm having proverbial kittens over the aptitude tests. Can anyone tell me if the basic structure of the testing is the same as the "Practice Leaflet 2" they recommend or whether they have dropped/added any set of questions?

Hoping for the best, expecting the worst - I've never been the most technically-minded of people. We'll see!

Thanks in advance

Check the NATS HR Recruitment (ATCO Careers) website to look up what the latest tests are for stage 1. This should be in a pdf form, under the eligibility/application process tab on the site.

The pratice leaflet, if its the same one I had for last year is now incorrect, or at least its misleading as I believe there is no longer the basic checking test, this has been replaced with a mathematics test which is not mentioned in the practice SHL leaflet although it is mentioned in the aforementioned pdf of 'stage 1 what to expect'.

A word of warning - I think most people find the stage 1 tests are harder and more complex than the practice examples provided, although its still possible to complete them all (I did :)) but be prepared!
Good luck

Cpt. I-DEID,

I got my S1 on the same day at 12.30, what time is yours?

regards.

Same time slot! As I've said, I'm not expecting much despite the fact my entire family works in the industry - won't count for much with my mathematical (or lack of) skills! Where are you coming from?

Gonna be travelling by train from Essex, I live in Billericay currently.

I've got quite different problem though, as I'm not English I think it might be quite a challenge for me.

Anyway, we just need to prepare and face it! I'll see you in Whiteley then.

regards.

london -> bournemouth
 

I'll spend a week in London with my girlfriend and I would like to take visit to Bournemouth, just to get familiar with the city-i-hope-that-i-will-be-trained-here and other stuff.
Can you recommend to me some cheap way to travel from L to B? Apart from walking, of course :ok:

Try National Express coaches, booked well in advance they usually turn up quite cheap.

The new Greyhound bus service runs to Southampton and Bournemouth, they're often cheaper than than National Express. You may want to book a night stop if you use the coach, it's nearly three hours from London

25/01 1230 fareham stage 1
 

So who here was at the 25/01, 1230 Stage 1 in Fareham?

Quite a few more there than I expected, reading from this thread it seems the average attendees is about 10-15 but there were around 30 or more of us yesterday!

Interested to hear how others thought they did. ATC Motivation & Maths papers went well, however just don't know about the cubes or diagramming! Only got about half way through on both papers so just have to wait and see.

Dissapointed there was no basic checking paper as that was one thing I was good at!

Fingers crossed and good luck to all

CaptJayJay,

I understand that the basic checking part of the test has been replaced by a simple numeracy section. Did this just include basic mental arithmetic and D/S/T questions? :bored:

eeek, sorry for the dude comment!

finally got through to HR, i was still on record, but they thought i'd sat stage 1 so they weren't going to accept my re-application, however it's all sorted now, got my date on the 12th of Feb at Prestwick at a tenderly houred 9am!

hope my weetos do me proud!

Aircraft Recognition
 

Skibz,

Have you been accepted to the college already? I believe about a month before we start we're given access to an online learning tool which contains lots of pre-reading material for the college. I believe an aircraft recognition guide is a part of this.

Maybe stick a post on to the Departure Lounge forum?

Jochi

Skibz check your PM's

Stage 1
 

I DEID, - yes you're right.

There was no basic checking paper.

First paper was the "General ATC Motivation", which if you've read and understood the pre-stage documentation, is easy enough.

Then the cubes.
Then the diagramming.

Final paper was a numeracy paper - mostly combined of S/D/T questions, odd one on the compass - but basically all simple arithmetic.

Anyone else attend the S1 in Fareham last Monday 25th, 1230?

Waiting with baited breath for the results to arrive, promised week end :-0

Hey guys, want to hear a funny joke?

What do you call a guy who has his stage 1 booked and realises his passport is expired the day before he flys to Scotland from N Ireland?

....me :(

I've emailed HR to inform them of this and to ask if they'll allow me to reattend once my new passport arrives... what do you think they'll say, folks?

I'm so embarrassed about this, plus I've been working hard for this, and now it's all gone down the pan.

I second what Skibz is saying, technically you only need photo ID to fly internally within the UK although the airline might have some other rules. Give them a call, they still might let you fly?

Nah, I gave them a call to check but RyanAir policy is to accept passport and no other forms of ID whatsoever.

Any other airline and I'd have been fine to show my drivers license, but it's simply the policy of RyanAir.

Otherwise I could have given them EU health card, credit cards, drivers license, birth certificate, skin graft, whatever, but they only accept passports.:ugh:

Air
 

What about using another airline?

Depending on how long it's been expired Ryanair may still accept it as a form of identity. I've known of people travelling to Spain on a passport that is 2 months out of date. (I used to work on check in).

If I was you I'd go to the airport and speak to a check in agent. They'll be able to tell you.

Good luck.

Hey CaptJayJay (or anybody else who can help me),

I've got my stage 1 on Friday and I'm struggling taking in the masses of numbers relating to the aircraft types etc and I'm worrying about whether the ATC paper is majorly arranged around the figures? I'm understanding all the other bits fine, am I worrying too much? Do I need to start cramming the figures?

Thanks for your help,

Hi jmoxx

I sat my stage 1 a few weeks ago and as far as I can remember (so don’t quote me on it) about 4 out of 50 questions were about the aircraft facts and figures and I was told the pass mark is 75% for that paper so don’t worry too much although you will need to know the figures for over 50 different aircraft when you start the college

Good luck :)

T250
 

Hi T250,

You said something about these diamonds being situated somewhere in the middle of the test, so how many are there? Is it 25normal + 25 with diamonds attached? If you could remember that would be great help, thanks a lot & good luck with your results :ok::ok::ok:

Cavokay7
 

Hello,

My memory is a bit fuzzy now as its been quite some time since my stage 1 day but from what I can remember I don't think the questions were split half with diamonds and half without, they were more intermittent after the first 10 to 15 questions of the test.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Hi jmoxx,

I agree with what the others have said.

Without saying too much, as long as you have a general knowledge of aviation, gained from reading and understanding the document they sent you, you'll be fine.

There were 1 or 2 questions also outside the scope of what is in the motivation document, again I guess to test your general understanding of aviation.

I found the paper easy enough. Just worry about the cubes and diagramming!

Hi chaps

Couple of questions on the Stage 1 prep document

1) What actually is NOTA? I tried googling this and there is no real answer, though i think it is essentially an area that all aircraft bound for the Atlantic track system must pass through to enter the track system on the correct path. Is this correct?

2) 'x' million movements a year. I see they have future proofed the document. I assume it is 2 million?

3) re: Mode S, what does the Track Data Block do? Is it a fancy way of saying that this is the config page, that allows them to target individual aircraft? As i understand it theres the vertical stack list and them another window that tells the controller everything about the aircraft. Correct?

4) not within the scope of the document but, why does the trajectory prediction part of IFACTS predict 14 minutes ahead. Why not 15, or 10? My original feeling was that maybe this represented a nice number of seconds but that isnt the case (840). Sure something divisible by 3 or 5 would be sensible, given approach seperations?

5) How are stacks set up around a VOR? Is the VOR positioned at one corner of the rectangular (?) traffic pattern? Is it on one leg of the traffic pattern (so a pilot can fly towards it on one radial and then past it for another 5 miles, then turn left and do a circuit? Or is the VOR in the middle of the rectangle? The latter seems unlikely to me as it means needless maths and checking of numbers to navigate round the stack.

Thats all for now. Ive reduced all the document into note form to make it a bit easier to learn, il attach the document to this forum after for anyone else to use!

If anyones at Swanwick tomorrow afternoon, see you there :)

Steve

Eye Sight
 

Could someone please tell me if they have changed the standard for eye sight in the last year.

I applied last week and have just had an email saying that my eye sight wasnt good enough.

Funny thing is ive got to stage 2 for the last 2 years running.

Im furious:mad:

That's more than a couple ;)

1) NOTA is indeed the area of the North East Atlantic where aircraft coming AND going across North Atlantic Routes (NARs) are procedurally separated before going across the Atlantic, or returning to European airspace.

2) You're probably right

3) I was under the impression that the "Modem S" part of the Mode S system targeted individual aircraft. The TDB contains Mode S data, therefore I guess your assumption was more or less correct; that is to say that the TDB contains info on ALL aircraft in the sector, whereby "Modem S" (typo in the guidelines?) simply highlights info on selected aircraft.

4) No idea. As far as I'm concerned, 14 minutes has been necessitated and that is why it is 14 minutes. Besides, it does state that controllers will have the use of a separation monitor.

5) I believe that's already been answered IE. I'm not 100% sure!

Best of luck at your assessments, and let us know how you get on (as I'm having kittens about mine next week)! :ok:

Think you're looking far too deeply into it for the Stage 1 - the questions are relatively basic.

However, it's all still interesting and no doubt good knowledge if you do get through!

Your probably right CaptJayJay, it is more personal curiosity.

Thanks for the answers. Some thoughts;

1) Good. Tim91, i just checked and the only mention is that NOTA extends from FL55 upwards, and is Class A

2) Yes, the news report i seem to remember seeing said 2.2 million for 2009

3) I too thought 'Modem S' might be a typo. Cpt. I-DEID your understanding sounds better, in that the TDB contains all the info whereas the Mode(m) S window just shows a specific aircraft. Be nice if a real ATCO could confirm this, or i suppose i could always ask.

4) I had a browse and found a post on flightglobal that said IFACTS actually uses an 18 minute prediction, and was also rolled out in 08/09.

5) I now understand exactly how a stack operates, having used the bible (wikipedia!). It was easier even that i imagined!

Thanks for the help (and good luck to you too :) )

Mode S: I don't know what exactly is written in your stuff you get from NATS, but the Modem S is definitely a typo.

Mode S information is only available at certain units at the moment - although a lot of information is obtained by the aircraft, you can choose to only display a set amount of it (TC often display the level that is set, heading and IAS in addition to the 'normal' data displayed in the data block - e.g callsign and level). I'm pretty sure there's a way of getting more information if you want it, but at this time, it's not necessary and you wouldn't want to be wasting your time looking at it when you should be controlling the traffic!

Does that help?

Re: Mode S
 

I took the information with a pinch of salt as it was listed under a "Future Developments" heading, which I assumed to mean that it wasn't a fundamental part of controlling yet. In light of what you've written, could you give a very brief overview of the 3 main characteristics of it (or at least NATS tell us there are 3), and how it manifests itself IE. is it simply another radar screen?

I realise all this knowledge in detail isn't needed right now, but it's certainly interesting.

online test
 

Is it true that the online test you sit before stage one doesnt even count?

Could someone please tell me if they have changed the standard for eye sight in the last year.

I applied last week and have just had an email saying that my eye sight wasnt good enough.

Funny thing is ive got to stage 2 for the last 2 years running.

Im furioushttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/censored.gif

anyone?