UK ATCO Redundancies
 

So as the furlough scheme starts to wind down how big is the problem for UK ATCOs? There are rumours flying about EGTE, EGGP, EGSH and others making a significant number of ATCOs redundant. It would appear that the market will go from having a dearth of controllers to a glut. Is anyone recruiting?

I've heard the rumours about EGTE and EGSH, didn't realise EGGP was doing the same. Does anyone know of numbers and what percentage this is of total staff? Still haven't heard if these are VR or CR and the actual reasons for staff reduction. It will be interesting to see as I don't think any of those units would be carrying surplus staff, the smaller units rarely do.

Strange how quickly the market can turn, only a short time from it being a definite controllers market! My guess is now ATCOs will stay at their present units for some time, any movement will probably be caused by retirements causing vacancies. The question is will airports simply absorb the tasks and carry on with less people to save cash?

And those rumours are?....

This must really be raising the morale at those units!

2 s

I would suspect that any change in numbers will initially be through encouragement of retirement plans and non-replacement of leavers (or scrapping of plans to make up existing shortage on required numbers) for a year or so.

They're not rumours. There are consultations in place at many units, and reduced working hours at many more.

It's a long quiet winter ahead for aviation. People are still walking 2 metres off the pavement, never mind getting on a flight. With this sort of collective phobia going on, air travel has no chance of recovery.

Just seen an advert for an ATCO at Cranfield. I've heard it is not VR and it is not limited to those at the end of their careers, very much the opposite. EGGP appear to have got rid of a couple of the more senior guys and those ATCOs who only held a single ADI rating. With the blanket quarantine policy restricting recovery in the aviation sector I agree it will be a quiet winter...

HIAL still recruiting:

https://hialcareers.co.uk/

Look at the small print for the “blip driver” job description. They are already detailing the changes to terms and conditions and pay scales.

and the Sumburgh deputy SATCO has a provisio about moving to Inverness...may not be a good move if you like looking out of real windows!

Hopefully "got rid" is that they agreed to take VR. I understand things at Edinburgh got a bit tense when a couple of older ATCOs, and we're talking late 60s declined to take a deal to go. It's finished up with all taking a reduction in hours and salary. Quite why any one would still want to be doing the job, no matter how pleasing it is, at that age is beyond me. Life really is too short!

Agree with the translation of "got rid", you would hope that someone within a year or so of retirement would grab a chance to take the ultimate early go and enjoy life. Hadn't heard that about EGPH, didn't even realise they had ATCOs in their late 60s! Why would any sane person not take a package to go at that age? That will make for a very uncomfortable working environment, don't suppose any of their "colleagues" will be going out of their way to do them any favours. Most ATCOs I know are planning how quickly they can retire while they still have the health to enjoy retirement. Is this maybe a case of fiscally aware Scots?:E

Maybe the older ATCOs at Edinburgh are those that moved from NATS to the new provider and longingly remember the bucket load of cash for NATS VR and their current employer is offering less.
Just speculation on my part.
With no prospect of putting their retirement travel plans in action, staying at work with low traffic must be quite appealing.

I understand they are both NATS-both with many years' service. So assume both taking pension already as well as salary. Looks like they'll need extra pockets in their shrouds!

Why is EGPH overstaffed? Are they the same staff that tuped across from NATS and no-one has left? Or did ANS recruit in the belief that a lot of original staff would leave? Don't recall seeing any recruitment taking place there over the last few years but may have missed it. No matter the cause, in my opinion its still better for everyone to take some pain to secure jobs rather than several getting CR, there are rarely any winners in a CR environment.

Ok point taken and my post changed to take into account your concerns. However I'm not too sure many of us would be happy to see some people at the start of their careers potentially be CR'd at the expense of those with limited years of service left remaining.

Actually I think it's a decision for each individual to make as they see fit. To 'blame' someone for not retiring, when in your opinion they should, is wrong as you do not know all the circumstances of their lives. Personally, if I could go I would, not because it helps another member of staff, but because I want to and that is all that matters in this case.

Your probably right. The template was cast at Birmingham. All NATS staff were forewarned that the T&C’s with the new provider would bear no resemblance to the ones they were accustomed to. Those that could go left, the others took up several offers of relocation and the rest were effectively stuck where they where.I’ve heard similar for Gatwick and Edinburgh.

When I officially retired from NATS at age 60, I got so bored that within 2 weeks I got myself a part time job as a FISO so I don't think you're 'sad'; we all need to keep our brains working.

Personally I think it is a bit sad that people don’t have a”life” away from work, and thus get bored in “retirement”

I actually struggle to squeeze work in, oh well only 29 pay slips to go.

Redundancy
 

Fact is that by October everyone will be back. With traffic likely to be diminished severely until well into next year I cannot see operational staff escaping cuts. ATSA’s were deemed at risk before the pandemic, and I will be the first to admit that most times we are looking for something to do. Personally I hope VR is available soon

Quite agree! I retired 7 years ago and while I miss many of the great people I worked with,I certainly don't miss the job. Bored? Not a chance!Probably sure we know each other,enjoy the next 29 months.😁

Been retired just over a year, after 40 years I wasn't sure how I would cope but although I miss the people and the banter I have no compulsion to put on a headset! Yes I look up at the circuit at Eshott, or an overflight, with a ex professional eye, but its no more than curiosity - there is so much more to life, was perhaps the best decision I ever made and have no regrets about not carrying on into my sixties.

You have my best wishes. Seeing a job disappear due to technology is bad enough, but then having the pandemic put further nails in the coffin must be really tough.

Just wondering, what does a 'blip driver' do and is it a worthwhile job?

The original description on the HIAL careers site is no longer showing.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Through View Post
HIAL still recruiting:

https://hialcareers.co.uk/
Look at the small print for the “blip driver” job description. They are already detailing the changes to terms and conditions and pay scales.

a blip-driver (sometimes known as a pseudo-pilot) sits at the other end of the radio from a trainee controller pretending to be the pilots, manipulating the simulated aircraft the controller is working on radar or VCR before being set lose on the real ones. It probably doesn't have a long-term prospect in HIAL, but in NATS such jobs often lead to other positions and many ATCOs, ATSAs, simulator specialists and others started out there.

Many thanks. every day is a school day.

HIAL
 

The ‘blippie’ job was to work in the new training/contingency centre in Inverness as part of the ATMS project so lots of career opportunities.

Speaking of which, vacancies for an assistant and 2 ADI/APS controllers at INV to be advertised shortly

Rgds,

FT

If there is anyone out there who got caught up in the Covid 19 layoffs and wants to have a more relaxed life I hear that Thruxton will shortly be looking for an Operations Manager to join their team. Its only A/G (so you will need an ROCC) with day to day management of the aerodrome so don't expect mega bucks.

And here is the same from the horse's mouth

https://nats.aero/blog/2020/09/covid...0J9OAYWtnACNQ0

It seems a shame that these trainees couldn't have at least finished their course and been left with a student licence. At least they would have had something that might have helped.

Interesting prediction of traffic levels not recovering until 2024/25, that is a long time away. We can only assume that someone doing the figures has factored in natural wastage and worked out that these trainees will have no place for the foreseeable future. As airports approach NATS and other ANSPs with demands to reduce costs in order to ensure their own survival and competitiveness, it is difficult to know where this is all going. Ironically it may be more cost effective to get rid (early retirement, VR etc) of those older and more expensive ATCOs and replace them with trainees on a different contract. I would guess that if NATS had opened their recent VR program to ATCOs, there would have been a stampede for the door by a significant amount, that in turn would have left ample space for the newbies. My suspicion is that the current NATS model and generous T&Cs package is unsustainable, the problem as I have stated previously is that other ATCOs have always benchmarked against NATS. Once NATS decreases T&Cs then others will inevitably follow.

The only saving factor would be a dramatic and sustained aviation recovery, unfortunately this government doesn't seem to think aviation is worth saving at present.

https://nats.aero/blog/2020/02/celeb...r-apprentices/

Reading through this article is actually quite depressing. I really feel sorry for these trainees and can only hope they get the chance to fulfil their dreams some day.:sad:

UK ATCO redundancies
 

I agree, it's horrible for those involved; unfortunately though, there'd be little benefit in completing the process to a student licence, as all those affected were on the area path. Their licence would have a limited value in isolation, they'd only get a credit for Basic, & the rating would only be of value to NATS, which is where we came in. The difficulty with opening the VR window to the operational world, is it puts the operation into immediate risk; those most likely to go, would be those needed either to train the new contingent, or relieve the OJTIs doing the training. It risks putting the company into uncomfortable & difficult terrain with its licence obligations, which no board could countenance. With nearly 300 still in the unit training system, the mitigation is there to make sure the operation can sustain for the time being, albeit it's still going to be very challenging.
I'm in two minds about the T&Cs: on the one hand, income is very much on a downward trend, & if it doesn't come in, it can't go out. On the other, we're again, like it or not, heading towards a situation of insufficient staff, what with natural wastage & the reduction in training capacity. When it does pick up, which it will, there'll be another shortage, which generally drives the price up. It's been the ATC cycle, since long before I joined.

I didn't realise they were area students, that does put a different slant on things although for those affected doesn't make it any better!

Regarding T&Cs, the difficulty will be exactly as described, if the income doesn't come in then it can't go out. If airport A comes to the ANSP and says they can only afford eg 70% of the agreed price then where do the cuts come from? Inevitably it will be less ATCOs or else less expensive ATCOs, less ATCOs may not be feasible to keep the operation going ergo a reduction in T&Cs, perhaps on a temporary basis, will be the other option. Not very palatable but to simply refuse and risk losing everything is also not very palatable. It has the makings of a long winter and some painful conversations are coming, not just NATS but to everyone. We only need to look at our colleagues in the airlines to see the upheaval they have suffered, if we as ATCOs think we are immune then we would be very shortsighted. And I also agree, it is a cyclical process, this appears to have the makings of a particularly harsh downward part of it though. Certainly in the many years I've been working I haven't seen such uncertainty and general pessimism.

Terminated trainees are being told that NATS want to maintain a relationship with them, their training has only been paused and they want trainees to return. They should consider this whole situation as an (unpaid) holding period and not termination. They should also see it as NATS being 'generous' in giving the opportunity to find a new temporary career, get married, have kids etc. and generally have 2 years of freedom to carry on life outside of training....! The gift that keeps on giving, apparently!

I hope for the trainees sake.

This could/would be a good time for the union to support those trainees, and hold the company to it's word later. Make sure the company gives them the chance later.

Please tell me you're being super sarcastic here? I know there has always been the suspicion that NATS managers are brainwashed clones of each other, but surely no-one would have the nerve to try and put a positive spin on this and sell it in a way that the terminated trainee will actually benefit from this?

I'm afraid not. The word 'generous' was genuinely used. I imagine they were told to ham up the positive spin, and some of them decided to take this noticeably further than others.

Job going at Cambridge just advertised today.