UK Airspace closure
 

Plenty of EGs today, folks!

Wonder if they have phoned up and cancelled the AAVA's :eek:

They tried, yes.

they have just done an interview on BBC News 24 from Swanwick Air Traffic Control Centre....funny, it looked remarkably like CTC to me. :ugh:

Also called us National Air Transport Service!!! :rolleyes:

Volcano still emmiting ash...upper wind still from the NW...ah well I guess I may hang my headset up for a few more days!!! :cool::cool::cool:

Heard that for all trafic north of a line from Norwich to Brecon is a no go area:eek:

I see the guy had been through the standard NATS management course - starting every sentence with the word so. It does my bleeding head in.

Saw the interview on Sky News a couple of hours ago. Do they actually train NATS managers to avoid answering the ****ing question???

Yes, yes, it's wonderful to know that you have contingency plans (though I'm willing to bet there wasn't actually a contingency plan labelled "What to Do in the Event of a Massive Volcanic Ash Cloud, While Reducing Costs and Growing Stakeholder Value") and highly-trained staff. Hey, I used to be one of them! Staff, that is. Not a contingency plan.

Newsman asks simple question; please respond with simple answer TO THE QUESTION HE ASKED. :ugh:

Yes, VERY frustrating to watch the spokesman avoid giving a direct answer. How difficult is it to say "we don't know yet" when asked if the airspace will be closed after 18:00, if that is in fact the case?

I wonder if before the day is out he/she will say "Lessons will be learnt" or "Our thoughts and prayers are with the families"

I remember at the college talking about sigmets etc and thinking what a load of old s**t when they were talking about volcanic ash clouds. made me laugh today remembering that.

What happened to the AAVA's? Did they still come in and therefore get paid. If so, I love it. excellent.

Just checked with the CAA. NATS do not have authority to close the airspace as such, because they are merely an ATS provider. Maybe nobody else from the Government downwards had the necessary presentation skills. Who exactly did make the decision, and upon which legal framework was the decision based?

I wonder if before the day is out he/she will say "Lessons will be learnt" or "Our thoughts and prayers are with the families"

David Cameron being interviewed at a school in Manchester earlier today stated "it's very worrying and out first thoughts are with the emergency services"

WTF !! He didn't have a F***ing clue !

Just checked with the CAA. NATS do not have authority to close the airspace as such, because they are merely an ATS provider. Maybe nobody else from the Government downwards had the necessary presentation skills. Who exactly did make the decision, and upon which legal framework was the decision based?

But is it 'officially' closed ? ;)

Only the government can prohibit flying but NATS can refuse to issue clearances in controlled airspace, which is the situation now.. Other countries in Europe probably have similar rules.

The airspace isn't closed....just that nothing is permitted to fly into or out of it!! :rolleyes:

ICAO convention (can't remember which one) states that no IFR clearance into an area of forecast volcanic ash may be given.

No airspace is closed.

Buisness for me as usual on the Scottish FIR sector....every man and his dog out this afternoon!! :cool::cool:

Only class A airspace is closed due to no IFR clearances being allowed; all other airspace classifications are still available to VFR traffic. Most small airfields in class G airspace are operating normally, contrary to what the BBC are reporting.

Does that mean that we can come do touch and goes at Heathrow in our spamcans?:)

As long as you can avoid controlled airspace requiring IFR or SVFR clearances, knock yourself out.

Adam: Not Heathrow; CAA Directorate of Airspace Policy have decreed no SVFR clearances allowed in class A airspace.(the SVFR man seems a bit miffed about it)
Did somebody say 'Northolt'?

Hehe! Northolt closed! :ugh:
Plenty VFR types out and about in Warwickshire.
Sucking in all that talc!
Wonder what the next overhaul bill will look like! :E

The airspace isn't closed - there is a zero flow rate in operation.

Had a very nice glider pilot ask me today if he could overfly KK today as we were so quiet, why the hell not I thought and Tower agreed. You see fuzzy6988 we can accommodate VFR traffic in the control zones in London :E

If the airspace is open but with a zero flow rate does that mean that traffic from outside the CFMU area can enter the airspace subject to clearance of course?

A I :O

My WM had a bugger of a job finding the ICAO 'Volcanic Ash Contingency Plan'. Scanned through it meself, dry old reading I tell you.

Dear god, SKY have a special on at 20:00 tonight titled 'BRITAIN GROUNDED' :ugh:

Desperate amount of eejits on the news all day, one said 'but the sky out there is clear, it's disgraceful that we aren't allowed to fly out!'

Oh, must go, Eric Moody's 3,214th TV appearance today is on.

So can any of you learned people tell us why no SVFR please?

Er, no. Don't understand that one myself.

2 Sheds, no, I didn't mean the Convention, but a convention:

convention noun 1 a large and formal conference or assembly. 2 a formal treaty or agreement. 3 a custom or generally accepted practice, especially in social behaviour.

I was referring to the ICAO Volcanic Ash Contingency Plan but momentarily forgot the proper term.

<<Desperate amount of eejits on the news all day>>

And on here too!!

One ray of sunshine, AMAN has been 100% correct this afternoon in providing EATs :}

BD

Northolt was very much open :{

have noticed that on nats.co.uk (temporary reduced to a basic single page due to heavy web traffic) we are now "The UK's leading Air Navigation Services Provider", and not a World Leader in Air Traffic Management anymore.

Must have been a tough one to win over the UK competition of the en route services to become the UK leading ANSP!!

A couple of queries from me:


While flying today we were refused a Traffic Service from a number of agencies as there was no IFR. However, according to CAP 774 -

"Traffic Service is available under IFR or VFR and in any meteorological conditions."

So, the implication is that VFR traffic are not worthy of a Traffic Service or controllers are confused over when various services can and should be offered.

Was SVFR really unavailable? If so, why? As a helicopter operator my colleagues and I regularly require SVFR clearance to enter London and other controlled areas. Bear in mind helicopters operate at the lower levels, where I suspect risk of volcanic ash is low. If the risk is not low, then can the ash cause damage to our cars/lungs etc?

@ Paul Chocks

It was probably a mixture of both with reference to the Traffic Service, although they certainly couldn't argue the fact they were too busy to give it....

I've never seen the radar screen so empty, even France was quiet.

Paul Chocks, there seems to have been quite a lot of VFR traffic out there this afternoon so if the unit you were in contact with had many calls, your service would be downgraded due workload. Other reasons are that you may have been flying in an area where lots of others were flying and that painted returns on the radar but weren't in contact. You may have been too far from the radar head for a radar service to have been provided. Some units (ie NATS enroute) cannot provide a radar service below FL70 outside controlled airspace.

Now what's the implication?

Farnborough LARS were saying they were unable to provide anything other than Basic Service for most of the afternoon. It did not appear to be workload or coverage issues, but rather that they had been told from 'higher up' not to. I wander what the rationale for that was?

NOTAM C1919 refers:
"DUE TO THE RESTRICTIONS APPLIED TO THE PROVISION OF RADAR SERVICES
CAUSED BY THE VOLCANIC DUST CLOUD PASSING OVER THE UK, FARNBOROUGH
RADAR CAN ONLY PROVIDE A BASIC SERVICE, ISSUE A VFR CLEARANCE AND
CANNOT OBTAIN CLEARANCE TO ENTER CONTROLLED AIRSPACE.

FROM: 15 APR 2010 13:10 TO: 15 APR 2010 21:00"

Nice one! I never said you guys couldn't anyway! :ok:

I thought volcanic ash affects visibility? So one might request an extra pair of eyes to help separate them from other traffic in time of need? Hmmm.....