Will this be the end of any full scale privatisation from any future UK Government?
Also could this be the perfect excuse for our present management (:mad:) to shut the pension scheme!!!:eek:

To those who are having the same thoughts as the 5 people who did it during my short stint upstairs yesterday:

Please stop telephoning Heathrow and asking to do touch and gos. The answer is no!

Cold the NATS internet filters be temporarily lifted to allow online games etc..
This is starting to get seriously boring!!! ;)

NATS
 

I am becoming increasingly irritated by the MEDIA referring to NATS as the National Air Traffic Services, are they not aware that as part of the great rebranding exercise NATS does not stand for anything anymore. I think somebody from corporate communications should let them know;)

Whilst I fully appreciate that ATC's hands are tied, if the current sitiation continues much longer, the Airport Authority might soon welcome the revenue! :E

"I am becoming increasingly irritated by the MEDIA referring to NATS as the National Air Traffic Services, are they not aware that as part of the great rebranding exercise NATS does not stand for anything anymore. I think somebody from corporate communications should let them know"

Utterly off topic but doesn't this show what a complete waste of time and money the rebranding exercise was.:ugh:

<<I am becoming increasingly irritated by the MEDIA referring to NATS as the National Air Traffic Services, are they not aware that as part of the great rebranding exercise NATS does not stand for anything anymore. I think somebody from corporate communications should let them know>>

There are some exceptionally switched on, exceptionally professional operational controllers, ATC support staff and engineers in NATS. There are also some people sitting in offices who have little to do when they've finished hooking paper clips together so they come up with fantastic ideas like the above!

I'm not expecting the media to fully understand the complex airspace structure but it might have been nice if they could stop saying that ' no flights are operating in and out of uk airspace'. Ok, i know that's true as far as commercial pax flights go, but plenty of other stuff has managed to come and go, after all the restriction is not from the CAA it is from NATS and therefore if one avoids NATS controlled airspace...

I think 'The National Air Travel Service' on SKY on Thursday has been the best so far.

But what about the money?
 

NATS costs about 2m a day to operate. We are now into day three with no traffic and basically almost no revenue... thats 6m and counting

The men at the top are already worrying about what to do about the unexpected income shortfall, looks like another 10m in cost cuts will need to be on the way this year. At least its right at the beginning of the financial year and they have time to react.

Remember impact of 9/11 revenue reduction brought NATS to its knees financially, and that was just the trasnatlantic income. It won't take many more days of this to do the same thing.

Same problem in Germany, Holland, Norway etc etc.

Finnair are already talking publicly about staff lay offs, some commercial ANSP will be thinking the same way. Interesting times.


KT

NATS costs about 1.5 million a day to operate.
NATS receives 2 million a day in revenue.

This could eat into projected profits for a few months before NATS starts looking at a loss.

Re-Nationalise!

The falling ash could be replaced with falling £50 notes and NATS would still be able to find a way to persuade us that they were in deep poo financially and needed us to give up more of our pension and salary. This will be milked to the max I reckon.

It has been discussed earlier on in this thread but my query did relate to why ALL commercial air traffic in UK airspace has to be grounded in the wake of this volcanic eruption (or 'planes' as the media constantly refer them to as :rolleyes:).

The focus is on jet turbine AIRCRAFT but there are of course a large proportion of Turbo Prop a/c in commercial service - ATR 42/ Dash 8/ Saab 340 etc and as these engines use a gas turbine to drive the propeller, I assume they are still subject to similar effects of Volcanic ash and are therefore not permitted to fly in such conditions?

The thought crossed my mind that whilst the current impasse exists it would have been a great opportunity for charity, and a lifetimes ambition realised for many PPLs.

"Roll up, roll up 25 quid to put a LHR touch and go in your logbook!"

Or am I being super naive?

FW

Brilliant:ok:

Its a bit like the BBC saying 'We are now heading to NATS HQ in Fareham, KENT'..... Really? Thats a first- I was always led to believe Fareham was in Hampshire. Also none of them seem to be clear as to whether Mr NATS Head of Safety is being interviewed from outside the entrance of LACC Swanwick or the front door of CTC Whiteley (camera strategically positioned with the NATS logo in the background outside the main entrance). I assume the interviews are being conducted outside the latter, rather than the former.

CTC, Visitors car park has been full of medja cars and broadcast trucks since late Thursday. 2 cameras set up on the little bit of grass at the front. One directly facing the main entrance, the other offset to the side.

BD

What about the money
 

NATS


See the link for details.

NATS earns about 2.1 m in revenue per day. Dont confuse operating costs with total costs. NATS Costs are about 1.84m per day (see report)

NATS Profit was 95m last year. The execs will be paid based on delivering to a bunch of metrics which will include profit targets. Every day of no revenue takes about 2.1m straight off the profit line.

NATS could go perhaps six weeks before annual loss is incurred, but NATS is a business and the profit goal will be paramount.

By Monday 10% of the profit due this year will be burnt. Without getting into NSL vs NERL and all that. But Assuming targets this year are similar to last.

More cost cuts on the way without doubt.

KT

Why not? Are they afraid it will break something?

1. Both runways closed
2. Class A airspace and no IFR or SVFR clearances possible

Two things made me fall off my chair laughing...

1. I quote from the BBC wweb site:

"Runway inspections took place during daylight for the first time at Heathrow"

2. Almost beaten by:

"If I was one of the guys out there painting white lines I'd be worried about any aircraft doing a touch n go while there are bodies on the runway."

HD, think they mean a walking inspection.

Gonzo, that may well be true, but I have an image of a possible conversation in AOSU

' Shall we go out and do a runway inspection then?'

'Nah, it was there yesterday, and I doubt someone's had it away in the night. It'll be there tomorrow'

'Well, you never know. Maybe there's a Chipmonk parked on the end of it'

'Don't be stupid, that'd never happen here......'

Well, let's just say that the careers of the guys who were in the VCR when it DID happen didn't get too dented by it;)

Gonzo.. They're still wrong. I've seen loads of walking inspections there. Maybe they don't do them now, but the Beeb said "...first time".

"Maybe there's a Chipmonk parked on the end of it"

Warms the cockles of me 'eart, that one!!!! Doubt if anyone up there now knows that story.

Didn't a Dove "appear" on the apron at Stansted one foggy morning in the 1970s?

BCU slacking again? ;)

HD, during the day?

In the early 1980s there was a well known flight instructor who worked for one of the local clubs near LHR who would phone up on a Saturday afternoon when it was quiet (this was the 1980s) and ask to fly the ILS normally on 28L and it was regularly approved. One afternoon he overshot too late and "kissed" the runway and the BAA charged him a fortune for a landing.
We never heard from him again!!

<<HD, during the day?>>

Yes, indeed. SRO for a few hours! Used to be a standing joke if the No.2 wasn't getting tight spacing.... lean over his shoulder and ask if it was a walking inspection.

Heathrow Director,

ref.
As much as I agree with your stance on aviation journalism and I too often stand agasp at how terrible it all too often is, I think the BBC isn't to blame for that quote. See "HeathrowAirport" comment on this Twitpic :

Twitpic - Share photos on Twitter

<<This is the first time we have ever done a runway inspection in daylight! We do these four times a year to check every inch of Heathrow's runways - usually in the middle of the night.>>

That's what it says on Twitter, or whatever it's called. To say it's the first time a runway inspection has been done in daylight is total nonsense.

Please lighten up HD! Yes it may not be factually true, but it has caused a chuckle amongst those for whom not being able to land or take off from LHR has become a concern.

That's why this is PP Rumour Network!! :ok:

<<Please lighten up HD! >>

Me, lighten up?? As I said earlier, I fell about laughing when I read it. It is YOU who needs to lighten up!!!

Airspace closed...revenue gone....people stranded all over Europe....balance sheeets on a knife edge.....Glad to see HD has identified the most pertinent point.....all about Hounslow and whether it was dark!!

What yahoo@ said:bored:

Ash Cloud: why can't they fly lower?
 

Re: the Ash Cloud: why can't they fly lower?

Appreciate it may cost more in fuel but maybe some sort of service can be maintained?

It is a simple question from a non flyer. :eek:

Cheers :ok:

Simple answer is a little thing called gravity, what goes up must come down. There was a 'sampling' aircraft which flew and reported 3 distinct layers lower than had been 'forecast' plus some areas in UK are reporting ash on the ground.

BD

.............It is YOU who needs to lighten up!!!...........

Sorry HD! I've had the best chuckle in days from this thread ... and I was lucky enough to be stranded at home rather than get to my intended destination and not get back!:D

That gravity theory will never take off.......

I just caught on Sky that a Finnish ?F16? has had to have some serious internal reworking after picking up some ash - pilot knew nothing.

Who's more sad?

HD checking in on PPRuNe to see what is going on in an industry that he spent most of his adult life involved in,

or people who are still in the industry (me included :ugh:) who have nothing better to do on breaks, days off etc but come and read and contribute to PPRuNe? :}

The statement "I'd dearly like to think that when I work full time in the business, I'd have something better to do with my time off/breaks than be glued to this website keeping involved" is equally valid!!!

If only they knew, B, if only they knew.......... ;)