FARNBOROUGH RADAR CAN ONLY PROVIDE A BASIC SERVICE, ISSUE A VFR CLEARANCE AND CANNOT OBTAIN CLEARANCE TO ENTER CONTROLLED AIRSPACE. |
NOTAM C1919 refers: "DUE TO THE RESTRICTIONS APPLIED TO THE PROVISION OF RADAR SERVICES CAUSED BY THE VOLCANIC DUST CLOUD PASSING OVER THE UK, FARNBOROUGH RADAR CAN ONLY PROVIDE A BASIC SERVICE, ISSUE A VFR CLEARANCE AND CANNOT OBTAIN CLEARANCE TO ENTER CONTROLLED AIRSPACE. FROM: 15 APR 2010 13:10 TO: 15 APR 2010 21:00" |
Ditto :ok:
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Could this be indicative of nats' grip on things....?
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DUE TO THE RESTRICTIONS APPLIED TO THE PROVISION OF RADAR SERVICES CAUSED BY THE VOLCANIC DUST CLOUD PASSING OVER THE UK, FARNBOROUGH RADAR CAN ONLY PROVIDE A BASIC SERVICE, ISSUE A VFR CLEARANCE AND CANNOT OBTAIN CLEARANCE TO ENTER CONTROLLED AIRSPACE. It might mean it can only issue a VFR (not IFR) clearance through Class D CTR/CTAs, and cannot provide an IFR clearance through the LTMA and surrounding Class A airways in the South East. |
I think someone in NATS doesn't know what he's talking about! There were a few light aircraft and small biz jets flying over Berkshire yesterday afternoon so why the restriction on SVFR?
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I heard radio interview with NATS Director of Safety yesterday evening. Never heard a worse performer, he was utterly useless and clueless as to how to present anything. I note from thes epages a certain wariness about the ability of NATs senior management among front line ATC staff but are all your managers like him because if they are I think we are safer as things are with nothing flying around at all.
A couple of examples We are responsible for controlled airspace-well what does Joe Public know of controlled and un controlled airspace In response to 'is there any chance of any flights tomorrow?' he said well we are responsible for controlled airpsace what companies and pilots choose to do in other airpsace is up to them. Yes. so BA are going to start flying 747s around at 5000 in VFR just because technically they are able too other than the fact that aren't all major airpots inside controlled airpsace anyway. he answered no questions, had no eprsonality and was the eprfect example of the 'meets targets-misses the point' British management culture of today oops rant over |
Has anyone figured out yet why ATSOCAS above Basic are unavailable?
Best suggestion I've heard is due to unknown radar perfomance at times of volcanic ash? :confused: |
Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR
There were a few light aircraft and small biz jets flying over Berkshire yesterday afternoon so why the restriction on SVFR?
Criteria shouldn't be based on flight rules. IFR can take place in VMC just as VFR does. nats have elected to withdraw service provision within controlled airspace. nats has also severely reduced service provision outside controlled airspace when, in fact, they would have greater capacity to provide ATSOCA rather than restrict it. It seems that nats are adopting a high moral stance which is now impinging upon civil liberties. I suspect that GA will today see the light and realise that they can continue as normal regardless of nats and their Basic Service....... |
Assuming the volcanic ash is a problem at FL300+, what is dangerous about flight at, say FL250? By all means adjust the levels but a buffer beneath the known levels of volcanic ash (and if 5,000 ft isn't enough, go for 10,000 ft!) would seem a much more proportionate response.
Transatlantic operators probably don't want to to bimble around at FL250 or below, and possibly can't anyway due to fuel burn, but domestic and European flights would be able to operate and you wouldn't be in the slightly ridiculous situation of a large section of the UK's economy grinding to a halt. Ahh, but then NATS directors probably wouldn't be interviewed on TV and radio and wouldn't be able to bless us with their "wisdom"... |
@ Daysleeper:
No idea... there is no reason why units can't provide a Deconfliction or Traffic Service. We are :ok: |
Originally Posted by Brown Dogg
I see the guy had been through the standard NATS management course - starting every sentence with the word so. It does my bleeding head in.
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Farnborough were instructed not to provide any Radar (surveillance) service. This did not affect Southend LARS or Manston LARS yesterday. :ok:
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Alternative View
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Farnborough were instructed not to provide any Radar (surveillance) service |
The ash cloud is between 200 and 360.
From the looks of the sat photos, there will be no change for a while. |
Originally Posted by Scooby Don't
(Post 5637337)
Assuming the volcanic ash is a problem at FL300+, what is dangerous about flight at, say FL250? By all means adjust the levels but a buffer beneath the known levels of volcanic ash (and if 5,000 ft isn't enough, go for 10,000 ft!) would seem a much more proportionate response.
Ahh, but then NATS directors probably wouldn't be interviewed on TV and radio and wouldn't be able to bless us with their "wisdom"... Call me a bluff old traditionalist if you wish but given the very well documented risks of the effects of volcanic ash on aircraft I personally don't want some aircraft owner ignoring everything and leaping into the sky with the possibility of their mangled wreckage landing on my head. I would assume the government has a similar view and are protecting the general public at large (plus the cost of clearing up the mess left behind). BD |
Call me a bluff old traditionalist if you wish but given the very well documented risks of the effects of volcanic ash on aircraft I personally don't want some aircraft owner ignoring everything and leaping into the sky with the possibility of their mangled wreckage landing on my head. I would assume the government has a similar view and are protecting the general public at large (plus the cost of clearing up the mess left behind). |
Thanks to the litigious nature of people in the USA that has spread to the rest of the world, it all boils down to ass covering The CAA along with NATS have been discussing with their legal department's as to what services (if any) that ANSP's can provide without leaving themselves open to legal problems in the event of any incidents. Also this being an un-precedented event means there is bound to be chaos and uncertainty amongst all parties involved, lets just hope it doesn't continue for another 12 months.
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Of course ash is subject to gravity, though obviously affected somewhat more by air currents. If, as bradt says, the ash cloud is between FL200 and FL360, and as you've probably noticed by lack of a layer of ash blanketing the country it most likely is concentrated at those levels, and if it's safe for VFR traffic to bimble around outside CAS, then why is it impossible for commercial IFR flights to operate at lower levels???
To say that ash is "subject to gravity" (which it is) in isolation is to ignore whatever you once learned about water vapour on your met course back in the day! Water vapour, more commonly known to us as "cloud", is also subject to gravity. Does it come down? Yes, quite often in the UK. Is it capable of staying up or even rising? Yes it most certainly is! The ash cloud, rather than descending in one large blanket, is likely to dissipate as it gets further from its Icelandic source. Some of it will fall to the ground though in small enough concentrations to be unnoticeable, and some of it will likely stay in the atmosphere for years. Some of it will mix with water vapour and fall as rain or hail. What it is extremely unlikely to do below 20,000 feet or so, is be present in significant concentrations such as to endanger an aircraft. |
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