For me the worst aspect is again the turn out.

It is beyond comprehension how such a huge number of people are either too bone idle to put pen to paper and use the PREPAID envelope or just don't care enough to cast a vote.:ugh:

One point i would like to make is that part of the reason why the union recommended this offer was because in their opinion RPI for August would more than likely be -3.5% or worse. I questioned this at the time as i failed to see how it would ever fall to that level. RPI at the turn of the year was 0% and by April it was -1.2%. May has just been published as -1.1% and as it stands at the moment both the US and UK are saying the worst of the recession is over. That gives us a blended RPI of 3.7% and we will get 3% based on today's figures. Using predictions of RPI to get a pay deal is NOT a good method.


Now that a YES has been voted through my concern is the ability to get the back pay right. Once you factor in back pay(including any spine point increases), OJTI pay(both activation and hourly payment, with a spine point increase in april), Pension and NI it becomes a very complicated affair. How is anyone supposed to be able to check that it is all correct when it finally gets paid.

Answers on a postcard.:}

Mmm, yes, it is a bit disturbing that 29% of Prospect members aren't mentally intelligent enough to put a cross in a little box*, lick an envelope and put it in a post box. Are these the ones in the offices or are they still operational?:eek:

*Be it a Yes or a No

I'm sure the guys in payroll often come round to check that you're doing your job right! Leave it to the people who are paid to do it :ok:

Best option when you get your July payslip is to make sure the gross payments are right. i.e. check your gross pay and allowances against the published pay scales. Any errors here should be highlighted to HR.

If the gross payments are right then the guys in payroll will take care of the rest. 4,000 amateurish PAYE calculations will just make their day I bet!

Can understand the convo being had in these frustrating times... but...

Any breakaway union wouldn't be recognised by NATS and so would not provide any representation for its members.

It could force NATS to recognise it if a high enough percentage of employees signed up. But given that a higher percentage of employees voted to accept the deal on offer, I find it exceedingly unlikely that enough would be willing to jump ship on the back of this result.

Be as well just quitting your sub and saving the cash

Corona&Lime/Me Me Me Me

I think with regards to getting the back pay correct, NATS have stated that they will be getting an outside agency in to do it as it will be fairly complicated, what with Pay Spines and SMART pensions etc.




If AUG RPI is greater (less negative) than -1.8% we will, of course, be losing out because of what we have voted in, on a 2 year deal...

And how much is an side agency going to cost?

Yet more wasted money....:mad:

Your faith is touching - if only it were that simple.

3 of the last 4 OJTI payments I have had have been incorrect.

I am still waiting for a breakdown of the most recent quarterly payment which was paid in April.

Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence or hope that some manager won't be trying to pull a fast one. :mad:

Anyone else have problems or is it just the second class citizens ?

PH-UKU

not happened in recent months but TC had big problems with OJTI pay being wrong/not paid a wee while ago.

We (the collective) are fools for falling for the management spin and will continue to be shafted. What a sad day :ugh:

Hold at SATAN.

Why so hard on yourself?..if you voted NO then "WE" are not the fools..if you voted Yes..well not much more to say.:}
I'm sure a lot of Yes voters (and Abstainers) will eventually rue the day they sided with management over such an important issue.:ugh:

By having such a poor turnout we have the union we deserve... or have we...

Having looked at the results of the paydeal from all 3 branches I feel that a lot of the Yes votes were given purely on the basis that the union recommended to vote that way. Some people were too lazy to think about the long-term outcome.

Union Bods ..Please, for future ballots just give us ALL the facts and keep your recommendations to yourselves. Let us decide for ourselves. Don't try to sway us either way then the blame can't be laid at anyones door.
We know you feel you did your best but to allow this to be a 2 year deal...well..:mad: :ugh::ugh:

anotherthing

:eek:We deserve Sooooo much better!! Any takers??

Fair point and totally agree.

However what is a breakaway union going to achieve? We have an apathetic workforce were the minority (maybe the posters on here) are militant unlike French atcos or our own RMT. A breakaway union would be the same.

Coming from a 'regional' airport the union system pi**es me off as we are forever shafted by the majority vote (NERL) which we do not have. The only time anything of value was achieved for the staff was when management refused to staff us 3 on a nightshift. A union meeting was called in the car park disrupting traffic and lo and behold we immediately got the 3 on nights.

Direct action is the only language these current bullish management types understand and until we do this, terms and conditions will be further eroded and they will be revisiting the pension issue as we rolled over for that as well. IMHO too many of my/our colleagues still deem it unprofessional to strike so expect more of a shafting. :ugh:

Kats-i I voted No. I totally agree with your comments regarding the recommendation - union should just say "here's what we got, what do you think?" no more, no less. Individuals can then think for themselves (and consult others if they need to, including the union) and not blindly follow the spin.

With the union "pulling" out of the working together agreement, I just can't help thinking that management don't give a crap.with the "blessing" of the majority, NATS have shafted us on the pension and now have straight-jacketed us on a $hit 2-year paydeal what's left for NATS to work toghether for?

The only thing I can think is to pull the AAVA agreement. Only then will the true status of the NATS operation be apparent.

It would be good it ATCOs and CTC could work in partnership for a change.
ATCO's seeing CTCer's point of view, CTCer's seeing ATCO's point of view rather than being played off against one another by senior management.

As much as I agree with you 11K, it'll never happen while we are in different Unions...now if we all joined ASLEF/RMT.....:E

Hold at SATAN
They obviously do coz they've done it all over us!!!:uhoh:

"now if we all joined ASLEF/RMT"

whether your comment was tongue-in-cheek or not, its not going to make any difference what Union (s) represent the NATS staff. The majority are not 'Union' people. Sh*t scared with a perpetually weak and self-preserving attitude, more like. When there's been a chance to stand up for ourselves, both as individuals and as a coherent and strong workforce, we've blown it at each and every opportunity. There's no strength, no resolve, no unity. The Mgmt knows this, and they've now got us all by the coconuts - even the millie-tants and the keyboard warriors. Until our attitude – not the Union - changes right across the board, we're fcukd.

White Hart

A lot of people pay their dues to have someone do the talking/negotiating for them. Unfortunately not enough people question what they are told...they just blindly believe that they are getting the best deal because thats what they are being told!
How many of them would accept the first insurance quote they are given even if they are told its the best one?:ugh::rolleyes: Not many.