Anotherthing,
4.1% of what? Are you saying that all ATCOs are getting exactly the same rise? :hmm:

4.1% increase on your current pay... :D

If you dont think its enough you could always get another job :oh:

So Band4 or 5 units get a bigger rise.:} Percentage rises.:ugh:

Giving pay rises on a percentage of salary basis... Unheard of... The cheek of them!!!! :rolleyes:

I thought it was based on September's RPI and published in October? Or is it def the Aug RPI?

louby

NATS have managed to remove the employment notice concerned from the intranet - hmmm
but if it is september, we may do better - inflation seems to be creeping upwards - see the graph: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=19
Those b*tching about the higher bands getting more cash: the same applies within the same band - those at the bottom of the scale get a smaller cash rise than those at the top, for doing EXACTLY the same job! and then you have the poor newly valid ab initios.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PERCENTAGE - THE END :ugh:

Throw a dyce

You really do have a bee in your bonnet, and a chip on each shoulder.

It's a percentage of your wage, same as any other pay rise... or should we start pay negotiations for the next pay deal with the intention of going for figures of money instead of a percentile? How about doing it inversely i.e.

Band 1 gets a £5k rise
Band 2 gets a £4k rise
Band 3 gets a £3k rise
Band 4 gets a £2k rise
Band 5 gets a £1k rise.

Or alternatively, you could apply for a transfer to a higher band unit – if you validate, you get the reward.

I agree the banding system is not exactly fair as it stands, but even you seem to agree to the fact that people at different units have either easier or harder jobs….

Quote:

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When will the fact that Aberdeen is fractionally busier than a Band 3 unit in the Midlands be looked at.And it does a vast amount of work for a certain Band 4 unit near Paddy's milestone

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So you would be happier with higher pay than those who you deem to be less busy/complex than you?? In other words, banding, if it was done to your liking and advantage, is fine!

As I said before – “Money, Mouth interrogative position check, over”

Anotherthing,
All sounds good to me.I don't have a chip on my shoulder.It's more like a fish supper.I think your pay scales rises are a good idea.I would tweak them a bit.Might narrow the pay gap,which has become too large.
As for me transferring etc.Well I have validated elsewhere at a equivalant to a Band 6 unit here,pay wise.:cool: Well you could come up here to ISZ and take a big pay cut.I could train you on the Airport side and IF you validate then I could be released.Haven't you noticed that NATS aren't going to post people around,unless there is a sound business reason.Especially those in their mid 40's.:hmm:
This Band 2 unit has seen a massive increase in traffic since the Banding exercise,which was a farce.Perhaps this might be reflected in 2009.Somehow I doubt it if history repeats itself.I think a bit more fairness is required.Sticking with percentage rises gives those at Band 4 and 5 at the top end of the scale a larger rise.Fairness yeah right.:zzz:

More a cock up than deliberate methinks. However I have just asked our senior union rep who states that ATSA grades are getting 4.1% plus an NHS loyalty bonus (BUPA for the ATCOs ;)) of .25% = 4.35% overall.

Oh and from what I hear the banding issues are being addressed for 2009 but some units will not like the proposed changes :\

BD

and Throw a Dyce was just talking about Band 6 - weird coincidence.

Throw A Dyce

I like my lifestyle down here thanks, (even though it's in one of the most expensive cost of living areas - good idea to base new centres where you did, NATS), the pay almost makes up for the lack of mountains etc but gets eaten away by higher cost of living etc. So for that reason and the fact that I would not get a transfer I will not be taking you up on your job swap offer.

Having said that, I would validate mind you - have done similar to your current job before so thanks but no thanks. Multi runway ops with helos thrown in as well can be fun, but having been there done that, I prefer the challenges down here.:ok:

As for your equivalency of a band 6 unit in your previous job - you base that on what knowledge of complexity and traffic loading over here compared to your previous job?

I have always said the Banding issue was done badly, but even you admit there should be some differentiation - I think that my unit is one of the ones that should be in the top band (don't we all), based on real facts - it's the middle bands that, in my mind, muddy the waters somewhat.

There are postings being made too.....both in the last few months, and in the next few months we alone are getting valid ATCOs from the College, LACC, TC (area), TC (app) and Gatwick. I don't know the situation at Gatwick, but I do know very well that the other units I have mentioned are not exactly flush for staff....

Anotherthing,
To be fair to Throw a Dyce, I think he was comparing the PAY to be an equivalent to what Band 6 might be over here, NOT complexity and traffic loading. :ok:

On the subject of family BUPA membership; be careful. Whilst I intend to take it up, there will be a tax increase for anyone who does, because you will be receiving a "taxable benefit" because you will be paying corporate rates:\, rather than the full rate.
With a 4% pay rise, funding this shouldn't be too much of a problem.:}

My life... some of you have no idea how lucky you are! Wish I was 10 years younger..

Don't forget that little tin with the slot in the top for: "Poor and distressed retired ATCOs".

Enjoy it while you can folks.....

mhk77

Yep, you are correct and I apologise for my misunderstanding. I'm not going to edit it out as that IMHO would make it seem like I was trying to hide my error!

I believe that Band 6 may be coming to NATS pay scales in the future - it already exists on paper seemingly.

Whilst not a great fan of the banding system (even though I am band 5), I do think it is not unfair to pay those more complex/busy units a little bit more. How the difficulty/complexity score is worked out is another matter entirely.

In my neck of the woods, Farnborough in my opinion, deserve more due to the problems with LARS traffic against IFR A/C, but of course this was not factored in on the old banding... who knows what else was left out.....

anotherthing wrote:

And I don't think you would get many people disagreeing! However, do the following figures equate to "a little bit more"?

(Note: I was going to post the current salary figures but as this is a public forum I will just put the difference - go look up the actual figures if you are interested)

There is £23K difference between top of scale "normal" (ie non-LCE/DWM/WM) Band 2 and Band 5 ATCO's That means a Band 5 ATCO earns nearly 50% more than the equivalent Band 2! Is that a "little bit more"?

I am old enough to remember when all CAA/NATS atcos were paid the same amount irrespective of Location - now although I would never expect a return to that, the gap has become far too large and only gets larger every year.

DD

Leaving aside the fact that it was the unions who agreed the banding and rates lets think about the business. NATS is a business and it must make money. Would it not make purely business sense to scrap banding agreements and go onto pay purely based on your units revenue? Units which make less money pay less wages, irrespective of busyness or complexity revenue income is the bottom line in a business.

BD

Stop stirring things BD. :=

Do proper businesses like Marks and Spencer or Tesco pay their staff according to branch turnover?

Do they use banding? One size fits all it would seem to me, except for NATS.

BD

I think you forgot to mention that management were part of the agreement too.