night manning
 

announced at lacc that as of 1st of may all sectors will have four controllers rostered for night shifts as a result of safety research conducted and views expressed at safety days. What do we all think of this move. personally I applaud the move and am pleased that the embarrassing situation of closing portions of uk airspace due staff sickness will be fewer.

I am Nats, but not a LACC bod, How many do u normally have per sector on nights? Is it 3?

TIO

Prolly 3 more than you have doing procedural approaches on a night shift TIO.:}

Is that going to mean more flow and delays during the day?

nights
 

gonzo- hopefully not. but if so then so be it. We need to be fully staffed both day and night as I am sure you do. dealing with the oceanic rush and domestic outbounds at 0600 after being up with minimal rest is no fun.
As for one person doing procedural approaches at night I have no idea what the implications of that are but if you feel it is detrimental to safety then air your concerns as controllers at lacc have been doing.

By no means was it a criticism, ifaxu. Just curious. :ok:

gonzo- no criticism taken. I respect the jobs that all Atco s do regardless of unit. I would imagine that yours is particularly demanding!

:D Uberlingen.

If that's linked to it then it's taken a hell of a long time to filter through. Most places in Europe reconsidered night-staffing arrangements within days of the disaster.

I don't know whether it is linked or not. I just think that Uberlinger should be something we constantly consider when we talk about allocation of human resource. In this circumstance, things appear to have gone in a positive direction.

If the airport won't pay you simply don't get.

Nothing to do with Ueberlingen, there were a number of recommendations which NATS implemented but staffing was not the issue. There were many other factors which are in the report.

Could not find any announcement about additional night manning at LACC, nothing on the EBS either. :\

BD

If this is the case then a very well done to the Swanwick reps.
This has been a major bone of contention on the unit for the last couple of years and although it will mean more nights for most, the "easier" regime on nights will be most welcome.
For you guys not on the unit, this will mean 2 hours on and 2 hours off for all of the sector groups and therefore no handling of, in some cases, 60 movements/hour by staff on minimum rest. :ok: :ok:

Hopefully this will come in although i have heard doubts as to whether it will actually come in. Heard the GM is still looking into it.
With 3 ATCO's on the combined sectors then you are on minimal rest periods for both nights & therefore could be stuck on radar from 4.30am-6.30am at the end of the 2nd night-shift with a busy eastbound flow of transatlantics. A recipe for disaster.

Have often wondered how lone night working is still allowed.At abcd airport the night shift is a one person shift (i mean one person-no assistant). Movements vary over the months between 6 and 12 per night( a mixture of cargo and pax flights). They are usually spread out through the night but occasionally 2 or 3 happen together. Procedural control, obviously. Often feel dog tired at the end of the night.

As someone pointed out, if it's not legislated against then why would an airport authority pay for the extra staff?

BD is being slightly economical here..NATS response to the Uberlingen report was kept confidential to the NATS board only. Copies were, and still are, not available to the great unwashed, unless BD wants to furnish one. ( At the time I ASKED for a copy, and I have ASKED subsequently and been denied, twice... so much for "open and honest")

Also.....Except that at the time of Uberlingen NATS was trying to reduce night manning at Swanwick to a single Tactical controller per sector (documented by the union and here on PPruNe). This was hastily dropped, but there's no getting away from the fact that NATS management at the time seriously desired to implement single sector manning.

Hopefully things are more "enlightened" now. (and yes, I think they are!)

Best rgds
BEX

How curious! I'm not being economical, although I didn't say I had seen the report I said I had seen the recommendations. I seen them because I was given the task of auditing the units for compliance, with evidence. The audit report I compiled went to the NATS safety group and thence on to SRG.
Yes it was a certain, now retired, long time manager at Swanwicks aim. I don't know why it was dropped but it was not because of a recommendation from that disaster. To the best of my recall there was one about ensuring staff were 'together' where possible i.e approach located within tower at quiet times (would need to reread the audit for exact phrasing but I'm not at work for a few days). But that was it.

BD

Except that a number of operational people were involved in at least 2 of the 3 phases of the response. I'd have to check back for completeness but I certainly recall an operational ATCO from Swanwick, ScOACC and MACC being representated and there being some work locally to address the recommendations that followed.
Withdrawal of single sector staffing plans and talk of Ueberlingen gives the impression of these things being linked, and of any decision not to proceed being an unwise [or indeed unsafe] practice. I don't see this as a true reflection of events or indeed of the principles of single sector staffing. I believe it is true that single sector staffing has it's place (irrespective of time of day, day of week etc.) and holding Ueberlingen up like a safety card to block changes is somewhat disingenuous.

If there is clear opposition to changs such as this, be clear about why it's not safe. If it's compelling it should be relatively simple to prove the case :confused:

NATS response to Uberlingen still remains confidential. I have tried TWICE to get a copy. After much research I have been told twice (and have been told in writing) that it will remain so. My last attempt was in December 2006. Curious? (to quote BD). Why so?

. because They were

Nothing disingenuous. Single sector manning isn't safe. (unless you consider a tired, lone controller at their lowest ebb, in the middle of the night, much safer than one accompanied by a qualified colleague able to monitor any errors.... no, i thought not....:rolleyes: )

BEX

How many sectors around the world are single manned - at any time, day or night. What is ICAO or IFATCA policy?

I believe that there should not be 'single controllers on station' by policy of the above, but that is very different from single controllers doing different jobs. i.e. 6 controllers for 6 very different sectors with no co ratings/endorsements.

If it is so dangerous to work that way in the UK, what about the rest of Europe and the world? And what can be done about it?