Night Manning?... hmmm very non-PC , or maybe its policy to let the totty go home in time to get the tea, bath the kids etc at your unit? (Not Mil/ex-mil are you?)

keep 'pc' mania out of this

Anybody know the outcome of todays meeting regarding 4 on nights at LACC?

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.
 

Not just a UK problem
But 18 minutes? Did he take his lunch and a book?


(I feel that this was posted earlier but couldn't find it. Apologies if so)

Had confirmation today that there will be 4 on nights on all sectors at LACC as from May 1st.

Yeh, just heard that at work today
Thanks 5miles

4 rostered or 4 working? Just wondering where the additional staff will come from bearing in mind how difficult it is to man a DD&C 5 or 6 nights a year.

BD

No more S53's. Easy.

BDIONU
I don`t see what a DD&C has to do with anything. I have done them before with 3 people on nights.
From what i understand is that by only having 3 on nights then you are relying on the sectors being bandboxed by 11pm (when the 1500-2300 people go home) and then not splitting till 5.30am when the 1st morning person comes in. By doing away with the 5.30am shift & having 4 on nights then it gives you the freedom to keep the sectors split late in the evening & also gives the capacity to split early in the morning which with the increasing traffic in the summer then it is needed some days depending on the eastbound track structure.

There will be 4 people rostered for each night pairing every night, therefore 20 ATCO's per night on radar duties. If that means that all 4 have to work for part of the night shift at the same time then so be it (been there before), we'll always ensure we stay within hours. On South and West at the start of the shift during the summer this will be the norm, additionally West splits at the end of the shift around 530am. Its not impossible to roster the extra bodies, although I have heard that the north bank may have to re-jig again to get the night validations syncronized to fit all watches. Haven't we been down this road before????

There isn't any problem rostering for DD&C's, only 1 extra ATCO was needed for South and that was always done. The problems came when one of those rostered went sick, trying to find cover short notice is not easy. However the ATSA's struggle sometimes to get their extra bodies needed for a DD&C, but thats not affected by the ATCO change.

The announcement
 

Got that letter today BDiONU, seems isn't as clear cut as first thought. What is it with NATS management that they can't even tell the troops what the plans are, just release snippits and when everyone thinks they know what the score is, the goal posts get moved. Also heard that its a fact that some watches CANNOT provide 4 on every night shift every cycle every month and for it to work shift changes will have to occur or we wait for more single sector valid controllers to gain a night pairing. PSS will also get affected but don't understand it so have no idea on the impact but believe it'll come down to providing less bodies in the ops room during the day.

And this is the progress NATS have made over the last 5 years - think we need some more destinations to fail just to prove the ops room is the 'weak link' in the whole operation and maybe they'll cut us loose so we can go be part of a real air traffic company that focuses on the MAIN aim of the business. Is that starting to sound like a rant????? :oh: :mad: :oh:

Was the point I was trying to make earlier, where were these 'extra' controllers coming from. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

BD

So far we've managed to stand out, as Barron wanted, as a major ANSP. We were the only one to regularly have closures of airspace at night due to inadequate night manning.

This will certainly help ro reduce the amount of airspace closures as well as providing some sensible contingency-15% of overloads took place with minimum manning, and therefore no ability to get the sector split or the ATCO relieved.