New ATC Documentary on BBC2
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New ATC Documentary on BBC2
From the BBC2 website...
"BBC2 9:00 pm Crowded Skies
No Room For Error: New series examining lessons learnt from disastrous air collisions. This programme looks at the fatal results of simple communication errors. Contains disturbing scenes"
Sounds like fun. Full details here...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings..._4224_60113_60
LXGB
"BBC2 9:00 pm Crowded Skies
No Room For Error: New series examining lessons learnt from disastrous air collisions. This programme looks at the fatal results of simple communication errors. Contains disturbing scenes"
Sounds like fun. Full details here...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings..._4224_60113_60
LXGB
and i thought that people learned from their mistakes...
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For once a program that had some valid points (or at least I thought so)
Limitations of primary radar, Level busts, Language problems, the dreaded Military outside CAS.
Still a bit of scaremongering but maybe now people will realise just how difficult our job s and that we're not the guys with the ping pong bats
Limitations of primary radar, Level busts, Language problems, the dreaded Military outside CAS.
Still a bit of scaremongering but maybe now people will realise just how difficult our job s and that we're not the guys with the ping pong bats
Ohcirrej
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Ahhhh, P7.
If they had footage of you doing arrivals, they all would say "There sits the second best ATC in the world"!
But seriously, having just watched it, it was a much better effort from the BBC than the infamous "The day England stood still"......
If they had footage of you doing arrivals, they all would say "There sits the second best ATC in the world"!
But seriously, having just watched it, it was a much better effort from the BBC than the infamous "The day England stood still"......
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Why do NATS seem to avoid being involved in such programmes, they always have to ask non NATS regional airports and overseas ATC providers. Is there a conscious decision not to be involved.
Nice to see for once the issue that we need more Controlled Airspace.
Nice to see for once the issue that we need more Controlled Airspace.
I thought the 'Crowded Skies' programe (9pm Sunday, BBC 2) did make some very valid points but was dangerously close to sensationalisim in places. In parictular the shots of the wreckage of the mid air collision over Delhi, including what appeared to be the torso of one of the passengers (or crew) Making a point about serious safety issues is one thing, but we don't need to see that (and of course the relatives most definetly do not) to get the point. I also question (although this particular programe didn't actually do this,) the need for transcripts of the CVRs to be broadcast, with the pilots very last words on this Earth shown (with subtitles) as Sunday night entertainment. It is one thing on a CRM course. Presumably all the participents are professionals who might learn something from it and save future lives, but for 'Joe Public' the "Pull up, pull up! Oh my God, this is it!" kind of transcript Channel 4 seems to be getting fons of showing, is just making cheap shock-horror entertaiment out of tragidy. I will say again, this was something this programe was not guilty of, but they were dangerouly close at times, IMHO.
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Flower, according to the NATS intranet today, it would seem that an LL watch Manager was interviewed for the programme (which I belive is on for about 3 consecutive weeks), but that interview will not be used!!!!!
on your FM dial
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"The French still refusing to speak english!!!! and i thought that people learned from their mistakes..."
Yeah - you'd think the english pilots would learn french before they attempted to operate into Paris - english being one of FIVE ICAO aviation languages.
If you don't want to learn the lingo then stay home!
It would be safer for everyone.
Yeah - you'd think the english pilots would learn french before they attempted to operate into Paris - english being one of FIVE ICAO aviation languages.
If you don't want to learn the lingo then stay home!
It would be safer for everyone.
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Tonights programme was the first of three.
Many valid points indeed and not too over dramatised from the Beeb.
DataLink's gotta be the way to go, and eventually fully automated ATC without human intervention.
I'd love to see the Safety case get past SRG though!
PN
Many valid points indeed and not too over dramatised from the Beeb.
DataLink's gotta be the way to go, and eventually fully automated ATC without human intervention.
I'd love to see the Safety case get past SRG though!
PN
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Yes, why dont we all learn Portuguese, Spanish, Greek, German, Italian and so on... Today im flying to France, i speak French, tomorrow im flying to Portugal i speak Portuguese...
Much easier huh?
Much easier huh?
on your FM dial
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With the present out-dated voice communications your options are :
(1) Learn the lingo = SITUATIONAL AWARENESS
or
(2) Don't learn the lingo = Fly around in IGNORANCE.
Your choice.
In the longer term the real answer is datalink. It's been in use on Pacific routes for nearly ten years now. Europe will catch up some time soon I guess.
(1) Learn the lingo = SITUATIONAL AWARENESS
or
(2) Don't learn the lingo = Fly around in IGNORANCE.
Your choice.
In the longer term the real answer is datalink. It's been in use on Pacific routes for nearly ten years now. Europe will catch up some time soon I guess.
If the powers that be turned round and said we all need to speak french (or any other language) then so be it. I wouldn't complain. The point is that while there are 5 allowed languages then there will always be incidents.
I was talking to a french pilot about this subject last week and he said that if you fly into an airport in an ICAO country then you can speak in any of the 5 languages and they must provide a controller that can speak it back to you. I told him he was talking rubbish but it made me think about it so I'm going to go check it out.
radar707, you had better get a subscription to linguaphone because I'm gonna be testing you soon!
I was talking to a french pilot about this subject last week and he said that if you fly into an airport in an ICAO country then you can speak in any of the 5 languages and they must provide a controller that can speak it back to you. I told him he was talking rubbish but it made me think about it so I'm going to go check it out.
radar707, you had better get a subscription to linguaphone because I'm gonna be testing you soon!
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Right i better start buying some books in foreign lingo then... 
Luckly i speak a few languages so ill save some $$
Boa Noite
Luckly i speak a few languages so ill save some $$
Boa Noite
Last edited by AIRWAY; 4th Aug 2003 at 06:12.
and eventually fully automated ATC without human intervention.
On a more serious note, two questions:
i) If datalink was the sole means of ATC communication, notwithstanding the benefits, would pilots be able to maintain situational awareness?
ii) We are told that some pilots still insist on using their native language whilst at CDG etc. How do they manage when operating in Airspace where French, or whatever, is not spoken by ATC?
